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+--- Thread: Red Sox - Yankees - The Final Showdown (/showthread.php?tid=9473)
- Goatweed - 10-18-2004
Quote:Last I checked the sox payroll wasnt far off.
I think it's a 50 million $ difference.
- The Jays - 10-18-2004
Quote:still, 26 world championships. you actually have the balls to complain about a decade or so without a championship.
Yeah, the Yankees have 26 world championships. And I've only been alive for four of them.
As Keyser said, there is a beauty to the history of the franchise, and in looking back at the seasons and the championships, but's its not like I knew what it was like to watch the 1961 season, or the 1927, or the 1978 season. I appreciate the 1996 championship more than the 1927 championship, because I watched the team work through that 96 season, the difficulties that arose, the great wins they had along the way that season. I felt what it was like just stepping outside my door after that WS win, how everyone in the city was joyous. It was amazing. All the 1927 championship would be is from what I could read in books. And for the 22 other championships, or the 33 AL pennents, it's not like I can re-live those years, and cherish those championships, from what, some highlight programs on YES and ESPN Classic, and dvd compliations? I'm suppose to get an appreciation for what it was like to have the Yankees win the WS 22 times, and be able to sit back in my chair and say , "Yeah, Red Sox need to win, maybe I should stop cheering for the Yanks."?
Like I said at the start, I've only been alive for 4 World Series wins. Which means 95, 97, 2001, 2002, and 2003, I've seen the Yanks make the playoffs and lose. 5 out of 9 times, they've been beaten in series play in the playoffs. And which means, ever since I was able to consciously follow baseball, lets say 19 years now, 9 times, during those 19, did they make the playoffs. 4 of those times they won everything.
From 98-2000, the Yankees were just dominant. Jeter, Williams, Pettite, O'Neil, Martinez, Posada, Cone, Rivera; together, they had beaten the best team in baseball in 96, and then were eliminated by the Indians the following year. They certainly were never on those 22 other world championship teams before them. They were on 1 team, the 96 team. Why would anyone be OK with them saying, "Yeah, we got elminated, but, hey, the franchise has 22 championships, not that we had anything to do with them, so it's ok if this bunch of guys doesn't make it." I believe that ballplayers play to win the WS, and I also believe that they would like to win a World Series for a town that wants them to win. They came back, re-built, some new faces added to try to get back to that World Series, and win.
By 2002, still had Jeter, Williams, Pettite, Posada, Mo, now had Clemens, O'Neil and Martinez were gone, Soriano and Mussina come in, Giambi comes in. They all wanted to win the WS for NY, and they couldn't. How do you establish a relationship to these new players? They talk about it, how each player has that one game in which they become a "Yankee", which I think is kinda crap; I'd rather see how they react as part of a team, what their contributions are, and how they exhibit, through their play in the season and postseasons, their desire to want to win, not just for the Yanks, or for themselves, but for the people that support them, New York.
The metropolitan areas follows two baseball teams, two football teams, three hockey teams, two basketball teams. We have alot of people in the tri state area that want to see these teams win championships.
If this is about money, well, then how come the Yankees have all this money to spend, and teams like Arizona don't?
- The Jays - 10-18-2004
Goatweed Wrote:what would the difference be in payroll if the Red Sox had gotten A-rod?Quote:Last I checked the sox payroll wasnt far off.
I think it's a 50 million $ difference.
- Goatweed - 10-18-2004
the Sox would be spending more than us - would they then be the Evil Empire?
I've been a Yankee fan all my life, and I remember snippets of the 78 series (which is amazing since I cant remember what day it is). I lived through the 80's, going to Yankee games when the seats were EMPTY, when Donnie Baseball & Winfield were kicking ass. I have no problem rooting for the Yankees to win, because to me it's not about the $$, it's about the team. Everyone loves to talk about how Steinbrenner spends shitloads of money - and he does. But, what has it gotten him? And isn't it his $$ to spend? As was mentioned before, other teams could have spent as much, if not more, but they didn't - but how is that the Yankees' fault?
- Galt - 10-18-2004
the incremental payroll for the Sox would have been negligable.
They would have traded Manny (making $20) for Arod (making $25) plus additional guys like Williamson (who was also making a few million a year)
The last I heard, the difference between the Yankees' payroll and the Sox' payroll was bigger than the difference between the Sox' payroll and the lowest payroll in baseball (Tampa)
I think it was something like $180+ for the Yanks. $110 for the Sox and $45 for Tampa. This is from memory, the numbers might not be exact.
- The Jays - 10-18-2004
They have merchandise, they have television and radio networks, corporate sponsorship, international sponsorship. Aren't these ways the Yanks make money? Who's to say that, now with satellite radio, it might be easier for other teams to get a national reaching radio network? Who's to say that in Seattle, Ichiro gets alot of Japanese sponsorship for the Seattle Mariners? Arent most of the team owners millionaires? Do they want to own a ballclub, or run a business? It's professional sports; you're in the business of winning championships for the franchise, which is supported by a city and its fanbase, and its national fanbase.
- Galt - 10-18-2004
for the exact reason that everyone has mentioned. You follow the team where you grew up. The Yanks feed off a population of 12 million. Tampa Bay off 1 million. The yanks, Sox, Dogers, Mets, etc are going to have the advantage over everyone in regards to ticket sales. They are going to have the largest amount of merchandise because of the size of their population. Since they have the highest population, the TV networks will get the best ratings when they show one of their games.
- The Sleeper - 10-18-2004
I just find it boring to root for a team that is guaranteed to make the playoffs every year. It takes away any regular season suspense, and then I am not really fimiliar with the team come post-season, since I didn't watch any reg. season games. this can also be a product of me losing interest in baseball, but I've watched a lot of the playoffs this year and have been enjoying it, so I think it's mostly the blandness of a team that you know on day 1 will win 100 games.
- The Sleeper - 10-18-2004
also, I definitely rooted for the red sox last night so I think i am officially not a yankee fan anymore. I am still torn on who I want to win the series
- Arpikarhu - 10-18-2004
The Sleeper Wrote:also, I definitely rooted for the red sox last night so I think i am officially not a yankee fan anymore. I am still torn on who I want to win the seriesbased on this, you were never a yankee fan
- The Sleeper - 10-18-2004
If you're not now, you never were!!
- The Jays - 10-18-2004
but there is no guarantee that they make the playoffs. You can't guarantee that a team will be sucessful. Yanks lost their starting pitching this year. They lost a first and second baseman. Jeter couldn't hit a ball for two monthes of the season.
And, most of the playoffs isnt the WS; most of it is about deciding who is the best team of each league. I'd like to see less playoff series. Today, when it comes to the end, it's about taking the four best teams in the league, and seeing who's the best by having them play one another. Back in the day, maybe the Yankees finish the 1961 season, and they say, yeah, you're the #1 team in the american league, go to the world series. Now, Yankees finish the season, and it's like, "well, you're one of the four best teams in the league, but we aren't convinced you're the #1" Is it considered dominant, and thus boring, to be in the top four of your league for so many years?
- The Sleeper - 10-18-2004
I'm not gonna argue this cause it's basically personal preference. perhaps arpi is right and the whole time i've just been rooting for the yankees by default, with no genuine passion behind it.
- Galt - 10-18-2004
my best friend was a Yankee fan his whole life, grew up North Jersey, had plaques of Mattingly all over his house, has full Yankee gear.
Went to school in Massachusetts, stayed a die-hard Yankee fan.
Moved to Boston and stayed a die-hard Yankee fan. Almost blew our house up in '01 when the D Backs won the series.
Moved back to Jersey two years ago, and gloated after last year's ALCS.
His big thing was that everyone whined about the Yankees just spending money to win the championships, when in reality it wasn't true. They drafted the core of their championship teams, and only recently did it change (Mussina, Soriano, Wells, Clemens), but they were still negligable.
After this offseason when Yankees' pocket books allowed them to get Vazquez and Arod, while also signing Sheffield and two great FA middle relievers to essentially buy the pennant, he turned sour, and now is a fan of the Red Sox becuase he likes their new Oakland A's type of FA acquisitions where they aren't trying to break the bank (which is odd because they did sign Foulke and trade for Schilling...but alas)
I think the big turning point for him was that the Yankees just bellyed up the bar and paid for Arod
- GonzoStyle - 10-18-2004
It's also a simple point that yankee fans, true fans that always stuck by them even before they started winning again are amongst the best fans in baseball.
What's disgraceful is fans in florida not supporting a team that won them a world series, if you'd go to a marlins game you'd think they were the expos or something.
I hated the bandwagon fans that came on in 96, then blew them off in 97 then were allover their cocks again in 98, those fans actually do only root for them cause they win.
I guess it's also a good thing that people hate them cause they always wanna see a winner lose, it's like that in any sport or in life. Whats more exciting than winning is seeing a winner lose. Most people I bet weren't happy that detroit beat the lakers, they were happy that the lakers lost.
But everywhere the yankees go they sell out or are close to one and not just in the stadium, they can spend money cause they generate it. It's a shame that the smaller market teams don't generate as much but thats just the nature of life.
Is a guy who grew up poor and finally made something of himself supposed to be ashamed that he can now afford a Benz while his friends drive hyundais?
- Galt - 10-18-2004
GonzoStyle Wrote:Is a guy who grew up poor and finally made something of himself supposed to be ashamed that he can now afford a Benz while his friends drive hyundais?yet, you'll vote for Kerry or Nader?
- The Jays - 10-18-2004
wha?
- The Sleeper - 10-18-2004
yea Galt, what the hell?
- GonzoStyle - 10-18-2004
Galt Wrote:I never said i'd vote for Nader, let alone vote at all in this election.GonzoStyle Wrote:Is a guy who grew up poor and finally made something of himself supposed to be ashamed that he can now afford a Benz while his friends drive hyundais?yet, you'll vote for Kerry or Nader?
I'd lose any right to complain if I actually chose a side, I dislike both almost equally.
- Galt - 10-18-2004
I don't understand how the point was so hard to follow.