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+--- Thread: Do you think - George w..... (/showthread.php?tid=2923)
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- Arthur Dent - 08-01-2002
The US will not fight in Isreal until the Isreali's invite us and I just don't beleive that will ever happen. They would rather take care of internal matters internally without the "interference" of outsiders. They want our money and our weapons and that's it. Even with all these suicide attacks and random shootings, Isreal does not feel threatened enough to come to us and ask for direct military intervention. It would take something on a level of Iraq and Jordan invading simultaneously in an all out assault for them to swallow their pride and even consider it.
As for Hussein, Bush has given permission to assasinate him and that's what we should do, along with his entire cabinet. Send in special forces in a lightning fast raid to target all of them. Snipers and bombs guided in by ground based laser spotters.
- Gooch - 08-01-2002
There is a Democrat, young and dynamic, that the party is enamored with...the name escapes me...but he did badly on some Sunday Interview show and his stock has plummetted b/c of concerns b/c if he can't handle a simple interview...well...
Gore, honestly, has the inside track much to his parties dismay. McCain is the far better Republican candidate, but there is no way he can unseat him in the primary. The Repulicobots tend not to stray.
Gore in 04...possible. Don't think he'll be a good wartime president...but his (Clinton) admin maybe better equiped to deal with economic recovery and to knock down the pro-corporate inclination (though he's a corporate whore as like anyone elected since Jimmy Carter) and also support the Dem parties stance on corporate crime, social security issues, etc.
- OAS - 08-01-2002
I don't disagree Arthur that the best way to take out Sadaam is that way. It is easier to do than most people realize. The problem is Sadaam doesn't show his face often. He is well bunkered and it is difficult to pinpoint what bunker he is in at any given time. He moves as often as bin Laden did while he was still alive.
And I also agree that the Israeli's will never ask us to help. The problem is we can't continue to allow terrorism to flourish in Palestine while we talk about ending it worldwide, and Israel cannot stop it. Hamas will eventually start targeting Americans more and more. al Quiada is not our biggest threat. They started the war, Hamas want's to win it. We will get involved on our own.
- Arthur Dent - 08-01-2002
Isreal is a sovereign nation. And, right now, Palestine is part of Isreal. On top of that is the outrage that would occur here at home as all the American jews would start screaming about the US invading Isreal. Politicians are terrified at the idea of losing the jewish vote or having public opinion turn against them after a couple million jews fill the plaze in front of the Lincoln Memorial for a protest.
And who can blame them. How many Irish or English would have welcomed a US invasion of Ireland 20 years ago when the IRA was bombing London twice a week? How grateful were the Somalians when we tried to save them from mass starvation at the hands of warlords? (yeah, saw Blackhawk Down last week)
Until Isreal invites us in or there is some kind of unanymous vote by the entire United Nations, our politicians simply aren't going to put there careers on the line like that no matter how many people get killed.
And, Isreal's got nukes. And there "unofficial" policy has always been they'll nuke the entire Middle East before they let ANYONE take Isreal away from them. And the US treating them like Bosnia/Serbia sure would be taking power away from them.
- OAS - 08-01-2002
All valid points Arthur, and I would agree 100% with you if we were discussing this issue anytime through September 10, 2001. However, the rules have changed. If I were to agree with all of your very valid points, how do we allow terrorism to flourish in Palestine? Israel will not be able stop it. Hamas is a huge threat to us. There are over 100 thousand trained Hamas soldiers in Lebanon alone. All of them dedicated to die for their cause. The sophistication of their training in Syria and Lebanon makes al-quida’s Afgan camps look like boy scout training.
The US government is well aware of this. Hamas has vowed to destroy Sharon and Israel. They have tried to pursue prosecution of Sharon for war crimes through World Courts and have exhausted all of their legal means. They are not just going to wash their hands of their dreams and say oh well, we tried.
We are no longer in a position to get buy in from the rest of the world before we act. Count on the following, regardless of what the leaders of these country say in public. Turkey will allow us to launch attacks against Iraq from it’s soil. Bahrain will allow us to place troops anywhere in their country to further any American objective in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Kuwait will give us free access to airstrips. Jordan will scream loud and clear but will look the other way. We will do what we must do or we will loose.
And remember one little known fact about Israel’s nukes. They cannot fire without our approval. We control one key to every one of their nukes. As part of our agreement to arm Israel, we were smart enough to insist on control conditions. They can talk all they want, they can’t act without our approval.
The world has changed folks. Americans need to learn the rules will not be the same. Remember WWII. We were not going to get involved even though the world new we needed to. Roosevelt could not commit the US to helping it’s allies. It was politically impossible. England and France begged us to help, but we couldn’t. Americans wouldn’t stand for it. It was their war. Well the rest is history isn’t it.
- Arthur Dent - 08-01-2002
I agree we should get involved. Just don't think politics will allow our government to act.
One thing though, every time I hear how well trained Hammas is, I keep thinking about all the hipe around Saddam's Crimson Guard just before our forces marched through with troops surrendering to news crews. Hope it's that easy when the time comes.
- fbd - 08-01-2002
Quote:Saddam's Crimson Guardis saddam emperor palapatine or cobra commander?i think you meant republican guard...
- Sloatsburgh - 08-01-2002
1) I believe that the whole leaking of Iraq invasion contingencies is all posturing. I am sure some general has developed a plan to invade Canada if the need ever arose.
2) If you think there would be a huge protest from the Jewish-Americans if we invaded Israel to attack Palastine, what do you think the non-Jewish population would do? You would have an even bigger outrage from them. "What the hell is America, a country based on separation of Church and State, doing supporting with American lives, a country that is based and founded solely on religious doctrine?"
Then after the Israeli war is over, when would the Cuban minority in Florida influence us to invade Cuba...
- OAS - 08-02-2002
The Iraq posturing in the news is intentional. There are many Americans baffled as to why we are making all our warplans public. In todays world of information, dis-information is the weapon.
For example, yesterday Joseph Biden reported to the press that any attack plans on Iraq are over a year away. Translated that means we are ready to go within the next 3 to 6 months. The Iraqis know this also. The intent is a hope in pressuring some group within Iraq to attempt to overthrow Sadaam. We know who has the potential and we have already supplied them with the tools to try and pull it off. If they fail, plan b is ready to roll.
Today, the King of Jordan spoke out about his displeasure with the US talk about action against Iraq. He must do that to support his people and the Arab world. Translated, he has quietly behind closed doors given approval to the US for any action they want. When it goes down, he will condemn our actions and then go away.
We did this in our own country in 1964. US public opinion was adament about us getting out of Vietnam. Congress told Johnson flat out, no war funding, get out now. Johnson believing that it was not in the countries best interest arrainged with the CIA, a staged attack on US interests in the region. The Gulf of Tonkin incident took place. CIA operatives posing as Viet Cong attacked US destroyers in the Gulf. The next day, tape recordings of the attack copied from transmissions from the bridge of the destroyers calling for air support while you heard gunfire in the background infuriated the American Public and congress. Congress approved limited "police action" authority to the president and gave him an open checkbook to conduct military actions in Vietnam. Again the rest is history.
When it comes to war, leaders do not care about public opinion. They know they can fix that later. It's all in your history books. The future can be understood by unterstanding the past.
- PollyannaFlower46 - 08-02-2002
I think the country as a whole is in a heap of trouble. OAS, I remember wheb you asked on OA.com if people were ready to fight, and immediately after 9/11, it seemed as if everyone was, but its clear from reading people's responses as well as my every day interactions that the go out and kill the bad guys mentality has long faded. We're about to fight a fight unlike any other fought before, we fought facism and won, but religious fundamentalism is a harder war to wage...just look at the Crusades.
I think its very possible to beat the forces that need to be beaten, but its not going to be a war that is over quickly, but this is something the President warned us of. The problem is, in today's society of instant gratification, we've lost our ability to wait. Perhaps its a little ridiculous to compare war to a childhood story, but I remember the tale with the moral that slow and steady won the race....maybe its time to remind Americans that its not how fast it gets done, but its the accuracy that counts.
Every time there was a bomb that accidentally killed civilians in Afghanistan, anti-war people would be up in arms, where are they when our brothers and sisters are being killed by terrorists in other countries? Our American citizenship makes us targets in our own homes, and it makes us targets abroad, until the world once again learns America is not one to fuck with and the death of even one of its citizens will not be tolerated, none of us are safe.
Although I am unsure of Bush's individual abilities, he's surrounded himself with good people, and I have the utmost of faith in our military. We will win this war, we just have to be patient and try not to lose faith as easily as we all seem to.
- Arpikarhu - 08-02-2002
george bush is a moron and has managed to run this country into the ground in epic fashion.