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+--- Thread: Reyes for Soriano (/showthread.php?tid=8597)
- Arpikarhu - 02-24-2004
i do think his plate discipline wont improve, but he is stats are documented, reyes is a maybe.
- HedCold - 02-24-2004
the only thing that worries me with reyes is he seems fragile
- IrishAlkey - 02-24-2004
Kobe seemed fragile his first year in the NBA.
Let the kid friggin' grow.
- HedCold - 02-24-2004
i'm the one that wants to keep him
- IrishAlkey - 02-24-2004
Then you are a good person.
- Keyser Soze - 02-24-2004
You people are insane. This is a slam dunk for the Mets. However, I don't think they are willing to let Reyes go, if they make a trade for Soriano, they won't put Reyes into the deal. I think it would be worse to trade a good young pitcher than to trade Reyes. Good pitching is much harder to find.
- Gooch - 02-24-2004
i disagree b/c most of the mets pitching prospects never seem to work out. reyes is the real deal..the rest of their prospects you can't say same of. so fuck them...trade them. if they can put together a package and get soriano for the outfield....it would be great.
- Keyser Soze - 02-24-2004
i dont care, just get me soriano!!!!
- Arpikarhu - 02-24-2004
mets pitching prospects dont pan out cause they work them for too many innings.
- Keyser Soze - 02-24-2004
jason isringhausen
- Arpikarhu - 02-24-2004
Keyser Soze Wrote:jason isringhausenyeah, after the mets blew out his arm and the surgery
- PeterDragon - 02-24-2004
Mets rarely have offensive players come out of their system anymore. Here is a guy who is young, and smart - the way Alfonzo was.
Remember also Soriano is prolly going to move to the outfield, where his value will diminish. Hes had 2 excellent years, but again, Mets arent gonna be in playoffs this year, and they can go after bats next season.
I dont think that mets will get this done for pitchers either, unless (as daily news says) Rangers like Heilman.
Kazmir is the one guy they'd want (besides reyes), but he's a guy you've got to keep- he has too much upside to gamble with.
- Keyser Soze - 02-27-2004
<font="3">Mets keep eye on Sori</font>
Rangers still want to deal
PORT ST. LUCIE - The Mets were smart not to trade Jose Reyes when the Rangers asked for the 20-year-old phenom for Alfonso Soriano earlier this week, but they may have a tougher decision to make sometime in the next few weeks.
A person with knowledge of the talks between the teams said yesterday the Rangers are still interested in trading Soriano to the Mets, and will have scouts looking at their top prospects during spring training with a possible deal in mind.
"It's not dead by any means," the person said of a potential trade.
Mets GM Jim Duquette wouldn't comment on negotiations with specific teams, but one Mets official acknowledged that both clubs had left the door open to talk again after the Mets said no on Reyes.
The Rangers had told the Mets they'd need to get a major-league-ready player for Soriano, but apparently that could change as Rangers owner Tom Hicks continues to look for ways to cut his payroll, even after trading Alex Rodriguez to the Yankees.
The Rangers are also searching for ways to add good young pitching, and the Mets have some top prospects who might be enough to get a deal done. The question is whether the Mets would be willing to trade Scott Kazmir, Matt Peterson or Bob Keppel.
"It could be a tough call," a club source said.
On one hand, acquiring Soriano is an enticing opportunity. Bringing the ex-Yankee second baseman and sometimes-electric slugger back to New York would be good for the box office and give the Mets a little more star power to combat the A-Rod onslaught from the other side of town.
On the other hand, it has been years since the Mets have developed any highly touted pitching prospects, and they're building their future at least partly around the belief that their farm system is a year or so away from blossoming.
"We've never had a plan that combined a core of veteran guys with a core of signed-and-developed guys in our system," Duquette said yesterday. "Not since the '80s anyway.
"Now we've got guys coming through the system who are growing up together, learning to win together. I think that's important."
In Kazmir, a 20-year-old lefty who led all minor-league starters in strikeouts per nine innings last year, and Peterson, a 21-year-old righty who dominated the Class-A Florida State League, the Mets have a one-two punch that led St. Lucie to a league championship in 2003. They are the club's most prized pitching prospects, and could arrive at Shea sometime next year.
Keppel, another 21-year-old righthander, is a step closer to the bigs after pitching at Double-A Binghamton last year. Because he lacks the overpowering fastball the other two have, he's ranked slightly below them on the prospect scale, but his command and control of four pitches have him projected as a major-leaguer.
The Mets surely would have to give up some combination of those three - or one of them with other prospects - to get Soriano. To give up more than one of them would leave the Mets where they've been in recent years, when they've had to spend heavily in the free-agent market for the likes of Tom Glavine, Steve Trachsel and Kevin Appier.
Still, prospects are only prospects, as the Mets know all too well, dating to their Pulsipher-Wilson-Isringhausen days. And Soriano is the kind of hitter, with his speed and power, who would make the Mets' lineup a force in the National League.
Consider the potential of Kaz Matsui, Reyes and Soriano hitting 1-2-3. Combined they might be good for 100 doubles, 60 home runs, 90 stolen bases and who knows how many RBI opportunities for Mike Piazza, Cliff Floyd, Jason Phillips and Mike Cameron.
But the Mets also know there are warning signs regarding Soriano. His horrendous postseason with the Yankees last fall has some baseball people wondering whether he'll ever develop better plate discipline.
In addition, the Mets would like to have some assurance he can play a respectable outfield, and it appears the Rangers have agreed to his request to stay at second base.
Finally, the Mets have heard the talk around baseball that Soriano's work habits aren't the greatest - that he likes the good life of being a rich, major-league star perhaps a little too much.
It's a lot to consider, and Soriano's $5 million price tag will grow with free agency two years away. If the Rangers offer him again for pitching prospects, it would be hard for the Mets to give away an important chunk of their future. But it might be harder to say no.
John Harper
NY DAILY NEWS
- GonzoStyle - 02-27-2004
Soriano refused to move from 2nd, he doesn't wanna play outfield or short and as of today he's scheduled to be their 2nd baseman.
and the day reyes scores 120 runs, then talk.
- Keyser Soze - 02-28-2004
soriano has been moping in texas according to reports that francesa has received and could possibly be more open to moving to the outfield if it meant he could return to new york.
- GonzoStyle - 02-28-2004
I dont get this whole age deal, soriano has only been playing 3 full seasons. It's not as if he's been playing for so long that theres wear and tear on his body, he's only begun.
I dont get how you compare a rookie who showed a smidge of promise to a guy who in his 1st 3 years, is averaging 33 homers, 40 steals, 90 rbis, 42 doubles, 190 hits, and 110 runs.
The same excuse of give him time to develop is what I said about soriano as well, soriano is a top 10 player, arguably top 5.
- Arpikarhu - 02-28-2004
Keyser Soze Wrote:soriano has been moping in texas according to reports that francesa has received and could possibly be more open to moving to the outfield if it meant he could return to new york.i didnt know parcells was in arizona
- PeterDragon - 03-01-2004
GonzoStyle Wrote:I dont get this whole age deal, soriano has only been playing 3 full seasons. It's not as if he's been playing for so long that theres wear and tear on his body, he's only begun.Its not exactly an age thing, but Reyes would be under Mets control much longer than Soriano, and by paying him less (Soriano's money will rocket), you might be able to add an Eric Chavez or Mag Ordonez and still have Reyes. Mets wont win this year; waiting a year wont hurt.
I dont get how you compare a rookie who showed a smidge of promise to a guy who in his 1st 3 years, is averaging 33 homers, 40 steals, 90 rbis, 42 doubles, 190 hits, and 110 runs.
The same excuse of give him time to develop is what I said about soriano as well, soriano is a top 10 player, arguably top 5.
Also as I said, Mets feel Reyes has Jeter like qualities. I know you dont see it, and i know you can say take a def for a maybe; but think again about how you woulda felt if Yankees traded Jeter for a Soriano type player. Youd be happy to have that excellent (but flawed) hitter, but you'd be upset you gave up a star with intangibles.
What I find funny is how all the Yankee fans (on radio, not just here) can't understand why mets dont get Soriano at all costs, while only a few months ago the radio was full of "get rid of Soriano" calls.
- HedCold - 03-01-2004
there's a bunch of articles about how the rangers are interested in pitchers, mostly Scott Kazmir
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- Keyser Soze - 03-04-2004
<span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>Mets Mulling Soriano Trade</span>
By Bob Klapisch
Special to ESPN.com
PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. -- To swerve or not to swerve? That's the philosophical question the Mets are grappling with in a possible deal for Alfonso Soriano. The former Yankee is perfect medicine for a run-starved lineup, but he also represents a detour from the pitching-and-defense rebuilding plan the Mets are clinging to so tightly.
The Mets have been mulling this dilemma ever since the Rangers dropped Soriano's name a few weeks ago. The Mets flatly rejected any trade that would've include Jose Reyes -- cooling talks between the two teams, but hardly ending the mutual interest.
Alfonso Soriano's tenure in Texas could be a short one.
Mets officials believe the Rangers have been scouting Scott Kazmir, a Class A pitching prospect who some say has the potential to be New York's best lefty since Ron Guidry. Kazmir, 20, led all minor league pitchers by averaging 11.94 strikeouts per nine innings in 2003, and is progressing so quickly, he received an emphatic vote of confidence from Mets owner Fred Wilpon.
"I'm not trading away the future of this organization" is what Wilpon said when asked about a Kazmir-for-Soriano swap. "We're sticking with the plan."
But Wilpon hasn't exactly closed the door on Soriano, either. He said, "money isn't the issue here" -- indicating the Mets would have no problem adding another $5.4 million to the 2004 payroll.
The Mets are more concerned about Soriano's defense, and whether he'd be willing to learn to play right field in just a few weeks before Opening Day. Soriano told an intermediary he'd switch positions for a chance to play in New York again -- a message that was relayed to the Mets over the weekend.
In more formal dialogue, however, Soriano distanced himself from any possible trade.
"I am happy to be playing with the Texas Rangers, and I am excited to be with a room full of young players who are starting to build something good," Soriano told the New York Post.
Rangers owner Tom Hicks may not be as enthusiastic, and is said to be looking to trim even more payroll after saving $16 million a year in the Alex Rodriguez trade. Hicks has a relatively affordable offensive weapon in Soriano, but that $5.4 million salary will likely balloon to $8-9 million through salary arbitration in 2005. And with free agency beckoning in 2006, the Rangers could end up paying Soriano as much as $12-14 million a year.
How Alfonso Soriano fared over the last three seasons:
Year G HR RBI SB Avg.
2001 158 18 73 43 .268
2002 156 39 102 41 .300
2003 156 38 91 35 .290
No wonder Texas has its eyes on Kazmir, a Texas native who's not only young and talented, but tantalizingly cheap. The Mets are just as aware of Kazmir's charms, but there are still members of the hierarchy who find it hard to resist the offensive upgrade Soriano offers.
"Are you kidding me," is all one executive said, when asked to measure Soriano's productivity batting in front of Mike Piazza. Not only has Soriano proven he's a perennial 40-40 threat, but he's a .300-caliber hitter who's also New York-tested. In three years with the Yankees, he totaled 95 homers, 266 RBI and 119 stolen bases.
And even though Soriano now admits he lied about his age while in Pinstripes -- he's 28, not 26 -- he still fits into the Mets' quest for under-30 talent. Club officials believe Soriano could, on his own, lift the Mets into instant-respectability in the NL East, if not contention. They've been seeking right-handed power ever since Edgardo Alfonzo was in his prime in 2000, and Soriano fits that profile.
But there are red flags everywhere, too. Soriano is a poor defender who's never mastered any position. He's prone to lapses in the field, and even in the best-case scenarios, would struggle with fly balls at windy, cavernous Shea Stadium.
The flip-side to that argument is that relying to heavily on the career path of any minor leaguer, no matter how talented, is risky business.
"This team learned the hard way," said one Met, referring to Bill Pulsipher and Paul Wilson and, to a lesser degree, Jason Isringhausen -- all of whom were can't-miss prospects a decade ago. That explains why some veterans are openly endorsing Soriano's candidacy in right field.
Without disrespect for Kazmir's future, Tom Glavine told Newsday, "(Soriano) is a talented guy, a guy we'd all love to have in our lineup. He's quick and athletic, and another guy who fits the mold of what we targeted."
But at least one NL executive thinks the Mets are seriously misguided for everyone considering this deal.
"For what Soriano costs today and next year and the year after, I wouldn't trade for him. He's not worth it, not for Kazmir," said the executive. "Soriano strikes out too much, he doesn't walk and he can't play defense. What else is there to think about?"
Indeed, Soriano's 1-in-3 strikeout to at-bat ratio in the 2003 postseason raised eyebrows everywhere. Pitchers finally found his Achilles' heel -- fastballs in, followed by sliders down and away -- and used Soriano's lack of plate discipline to turn him in a near automatic out.
Which is to say, some days he's the next Roberto Clemente; other days he's the next Raul Mondesi. Go figure.
Bob Klapisch of The Record (Bergen County, N.J.) covers baseball for ESPN.com.