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+--- Thread: Best Movie Villian (/showthread.php?tid=10350)
- Galt - 06-12-2005
I think McDowell needs to be on there.
And the whole villian/anti-hero thing can get confusing. Does every "hero" have to have a "villian"
Is Brad Pitt the villian in Fight Club just because Ed Norton is the nicer guy?
Is Patrick Bateman not the villian because there's no one there to offset him?
I certainly wouldn't call Michael Corleone the villian.
Robin Williams from One Hour Photo - villian
Jack Nicholson - I can't believe he wasn't mentioned for either The Shining or Batman
either of the guys from the Cape Fear movies
Biff Tannen
Lo Pan
George Bush from F9/11
- Arpikarhu - 06-12-2005
The Sleeper Wrote:again, i think you are confusing "villian" with "anti-hero". i think any traditional villian has to have a hero to counterpoint him. who was the hero in the godfather?i have to agree with sleeper on this one.
- Galt - 06-12-2005
Then that means Pat Bateman wasn't the villian since there was no hero?
- Arpikarhu - 06-12-2005
he was an anti-hero
- GonzoStyle - 06-12-2005
villain
n 1: a wicked or evil person; someone who does evil deliberately [syn: scoundrel] 2: the principle bad character in a film or work of fiction [syn: baddie]
Michael Corleone is not the Joker (to correct galt I did mention Nicholsons Joker in my list) he is not dressed up in some costume or thwarting some good guy but he is in fact a villian. He is an evil person, who does these things deliberately. He doesn't kill his brother by accident, he willingly sends him off for the sole purpose of being killed.
- diceisgod - 06-12-2005
I'm a big Biff fan myself
- Arpikarhu - 06-12-2005
Gonzo Wrote:villainbut using the dictionary def of a villian is sort of a cop out in this instance. in the context of these movies anti -hero is the more appropriate term. even though they do evil things they are still the person you are rooting for in a way.
n 1: a wicked or evil person; someone who does evil deliberately [syn: scoundrel] 2: the principle bad character in a film or work of fiction [syn: baddie]
Michael Corleone is not the Joker (to correct galt I did mention Nicholsons Joker in my list) he is not dressed up in some costume or thwarting some good guy but he is in fact a villian. He is an evil person, who does these things deliberately. He doesn't kill his brother by accident, he willingly sends him off for the sole purpose of being killed.
- The Jays - 06-12-2005
I agree with Sleeper and Arpi.
Alex, in A Clockwork Orange, may be evil, and cruel, but, two things 1) the movie takes place in the future, the people you are watching have morals that have degraded to almost non-existance. 2) there is no set hero/enemy, good/evil stuggle, he is not in battle to defeat a villian, or a hero. We are watching not just this man, but all the things around him, his environment, how he is allowed to continue to torture and hurt people for the fun of it all because no one is willing to stop him, until his droogies turn on him. The story isn't about him being this awful person, but about him becoming a clockwork orange, a living thing forced to become something he is not for a greater common good. He wins in the end because he embraces the rape and ultraviolence once again, and is happy.
A villian is only a villian depending on your point of view. In A Clockwork Orange, everybody but Alex should be considered a villian, because we are seeing Alex's life played out before us, not someone who is the antithesis of Alex, nor or we generally looking down upon a larger circle of people.
- The Sleeper - 06-12-2005
well put
- The Sleeper - 06-12-2005
i would even argue that peter lorre in M isn't a villian. yea he kills children but the main point of the film is that he can't help himself. meanwhile, he's looked down upon by a bunch of petty thieves who want him captured just so they can wreak more havoc. they are way more calculated then he is, even if their crimes aren't as severe.
- HedCold - 06-12-2005
Ernie McCracken
- Arpikarhu - 06-13-2005
The Sleeper Wrote:i would even argue that peter lorre in M isn't a villian. yea he kills children but the main point of the film is that he can't help himself. meanwhile, he's looked down upon by a bunch of petty thieves who want him captured just so they can wreak more havoc. they are way more calculated then he is, even if their crimes aren't as severe.while i agree that my choice of alex from a clockwork orange is wrong as he is an anti-hero, i stand by peter lorres character being a villian
- Galt - 06-13-2005
But what you are saying is that unless a movie has a happy ending or a redeeming quality, then there can't be a villian.
Unless there is some character to protect the world from the evils of the villian, he doesn't qualify? Jason Vorhees and Freddy are only villians because some girl saves everyone at the end? Or because The Joker had Batman?
If American Psycho gave Willem Dafoe's character more importance in the movie, then he'd be a villian because then there would be a hero?
- drusilla - 06-13-2005
so then a villain is just someone who does bad deeds. in that case de large, bateman, & corleone could be considered so
- The Sleeper - 06-13-2005
Quote:4 entries found for villain.
vil·lain Audio pronunciation of "villain" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vln)
n.
1. A wicked or evil person; a scoundrel.
2. A dramatic or fictional character who is typically at odds with the hero.
3. (also vln, v-ln) Variant of villein.
4. Something said to be the cause of particular trouble or an evil: poverty, the villain in the increase of crime.
5. Obsolete. A peasant regarded as vile and brutish.
an·ti·he·ro also an·ti-he·ro Audio pronunciation of "anti-hero" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nt-hîr, nt-)
n. pl. an·ti·he·roes
A main character in a dramatic or narrative work who is characterized by a lack of traditional heroic qualities, such as idealism or courage.
- Galt - 06-13-2005
so a villian can only exist if there is a hero. That's it. The end.
So Mickey and Malorie from NBK weren't villians. Any movie in which the "bad guy" or violence is glorified cannot, by definition, have a villian.
A "villain" ONLY exists if there is a hero to offset it, and show us, the stupid audience, that good always wins in the end.
I don't care what Webster's says, that's just dumb.
- HedCold - 06-13-2005
so are we ignoring the other 4 definitions just because?
- The Sleeper - 06-13-2005
well there's only 1 other releveant defenition and while it fits some of the characters, "anti-hero" fits them better
- TheGMANN - 06-13-2005
Bricktop is definitely on my list Gonz....but I cannot beleive you left out the meanest....the baddest....the prettiest....
SHO'NUFF!!!
The Shogun....of Harlem!
- drusilla - 06-13-2005
Galt Wrote:so a villian can only exist if there is a hero. That's it. The end.gay. just gay.
So Mickey and Malorie from NBK weren't villians. Any movie in which the "bad guy" or violence is glorified cannot, by definition, have a villian.
A "villain" ONLY exists if there is a hero to offset it, and show us, the stupid audience, that good always wins in the end.
I don't care what Webster's says, that's just dumb.