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+--- Thread: Saddam's execution video (/showthread.php?tid=12485)
- Mad - 01-02-2007
"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations -- entangling alliances with none."
Apparently, our once great nation has been derailed into the train wreck it has become with all this interventionist crap.
Sure Saddam deserved to die at the hands of his countrymen for the evil he preyed upon them, you reap what you sow.
Still no reason for the US military to be in 140+ country's, when the primary function is to defend our country from INVASION. That means they should be on our BORDERS, not running around in the middle of another country's civil war between two or more tribes.
It's insanity at best and a nice way to keep the war machine humming for campaign contributors to profit on the death and misery that comes with such actions.
- Gooch - 01-02-2007
Actually i once brought up that Clinton was considering removing Saddam from power...and at that time nobody was complaining. Had Clinton gone to remove Saddam the complaints would be coming from the right as much as the extreme left. The question has never really been that removing of Saddam...it has been of priorities and the choice to do so when things are undone in this War of Terrorism vs Al Queda.
my political agenda is merely to examine this process. personally, I wanted Al Queda removed and Osama brought to justice than this quagmire in Iraq. Iraq, to me, is a distraction to the more important and more imperative issue of removing/controlling radical elements in Islam. Iraq, in fact, put radicals and relgious sects with more of a powerplay...much like Iran, their wacky neighbor. So that actual move to remove Saddam actually has created instability and room for extremists to thrive during this war on terrorism.
so, I try to grasp this logic....when Saddam is hanged, where ends justify the means, where to me....the end is that Iraq is an unstable hotbed where extremist elements are thriving...and religious sects are pushing them to the brink of civil war...and trying to understand how this made anything better. I think the mantra that Saddam being a despot and needed to be disposed is simply lip service. Personally, he can gas his own people and enemies to his hearts delight while this country tracks down and destorys radical elements that will attack us. And then after, when I can work in NYC with some comfort and safety, we can dispose state leaders who kill their own people...there will be a long line of them, including many who the US are on friendly terms with.
I can say plainly that I preferred Saddam alive and in power b/c he was never a threat to the US except for when they threatened our oil supply. On the list of crappy leaders who kill, he was just another blip. And this so-called priority to remove him and how the world is a better place is pure bunk and bullshit used to pacify those bleeding hearts who gave a shit that Iraqi people died, b/c somehow they are more important than the 200,000 dead in Darfur or elsewhere. Saddam, somehow, was this bad hombre who took precendence...for cited innaccurate reasons, and the results are still a mess. But I'm supposed to be thankful and appeased that justice was done. Who's justice and to what end? I am no safer.
- Hoon - 01-02-2007
you didn't need to type all that, gooch. i have a pretty firm grasp on the generalities of why folks are opposed to the bush administration and the war in iraq and i respect that.
i'm just saying being happy or sad about saddam being hung is a completely seperate issue. i don't buy into the whole, 'we're no beter than them', garbage either.
- Gooch - 01-02-2007
i'm just qualifying to why i am arguing of why i'm not so happy he's dead. it's for two reasons....i don't like our move and what we did there. two: i think his quick death in a very unstable iraqi was purely pushed by the US, and people are trying to make it that it was iraqi justice.
so i don't think Saddam being hanged was anything to brag about. i also was disturbed by our propaganda machine (or just mostly shitty journalism) who tried to make it like Saddam was shitting himself while he was hung. And, in fact, it was those doing the hanging who looked bad while he looked defiant.
- Hoon - 01-02-2007
if it were a US pushed event, it would've happened before the congressional elections. what good does it do for us now? none. face it, it happened the way the iraqi system wanted it to happen. it's not like we didn't know it was going to happen.
- Keyser Soze - 01-03-2007
the answer is no, i don't care that they hung him for all the reasons gooch listed and for the fact that it simply lowers us all to his level.
if anything it makes him more of a martyr for the insurgency that we created by invading a sovereign nation that was actually more stable and more controllable by the united states under saddam's control than it is now.
- Hoon - 01-03-2007
even if he becomes a martyr [which he won't - didn't happen with zarqwai like everyone said would happen], it doesn't matter. the insurgency doesn't need martyr's to motivate them to fight. the only role supposed martyr's play is in the mind of anti-war americans who think they mean anything. martyr's are like the religion of islam. they're no more than mere excuses for lunatics to do what they do. excuses, not motivators.
- The Jays - 01-03-2007
GonzoStyle Wrote:This is just the most elaborate revenge plot since the time Sgt. Mahoney replaced Captain Harris' shampoo with glue in Police Academy 3.
That was Police Academy 4, and it is topped when Mahoney gives Proctor and Harris directions to the officer's meeting, and send them to the Blue Oyster.
No wait, I'm wrong, 4 is where Mahoney put superglue on Harris' megaphone. I get that confused with Zed replacing his Right Guard with mace.
- Charles Manson - 01-03-2007
Mauser! Yauser Yauser!
- The Jays - 01-03-2007
Hoon Wrote:i'm just saying being happy or sad about saddam being hung is a completely seperate issue. i don't buy into the whole, 'we're no beter than them', garbage either.
You can't be happy nor sad about some fuck from the other side of the world whose never done anything that directly affected your life. That's why most of us spend all this time trying to lay out a justification first for either our yes or no answers; say I'm happy that he's dead, ok, why should I be happy? Because now he can't opress those Kurds and Shi'ites that I was oh so close to? Because he can't fuck with the oil I'm gonna use to take a trip to Best Buy? He didn't need to be dead for me to be safer, he could have been thrown in a jail in a third world country for that matter. So say I'm sad that he's dead, that's probably alot easier for alot of people, because we still have troops over there, and they have to face Sunnis and Ba'athist loyalist all the time, who are now gonna be megapissed when they catch the video of Shi'ite pricks chanting al-Sadr's name and laughing and dancing around his dead hanging corpse, so now they'll have to deal with mega-pissed Sunnis AND Shi'ites who set up bombs to make us leave. Our moral high ground is what got us into this mess, and we ain't gaining any elevation by killing more people.
Hoon Wrote:even if he becomes a martyr [which he won't - didn't happen with zarqwai like everyone said would happen], it doesn't matter. the insurgency doesn't need martyr's to motivate them to fight. the only role supposed martyr's play is in the mind of anti-war americans who think they mean anything. martyr's are like the religion of islam. they're no more than mere excuses for lunatics to do what they do. excuses, not motivators.
Zarqawi was a Jordanian terrorist for hire, of course he didn't become a martyr, because he was a dick who travels around looking to start shit. Hussein, on the other hand, is from Tikrit, Iraq, came to power because he amassed a large backing, helped overthrow the previous asshole, then kicked the shit out of a lot of Iranians, and is a legend to the people on his side of the Islam, the Sunnis. Yes, the Shi'ites don't need any more motivation to fight aside from the fact that us Western infidels are walking around on holy ground, which is basically the entire Middle East to them, and now, we've really pissed off the more secular Sunnis, who will consider him a martyr and their last hope against the Shi'ites.
- Hoon - 01-03-2007
bullshit. saddam won't become a martyr to the sunni's because he was a 'hero'. they only dug him because he was one of them and wasn't torturing them. it was nepetism at its highest levels. no more, no less. they didn't fight FOR him any more than they're fighting FOR their country right now.
the only ones doing the fighting are religious fanatics and goons doing it for the paycheck.
and clinton made the mistake of not worrying about a few sand niggers half way round the world and look what they did. if you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend they dont matter anymore then you learned nothing. and if the administration held your view and it happened again, you'd be the first one berating them for complacency.
- Mad - 01-03-2007
Don't bring up that do nothing sell everything to our enemies traitor Clinton, he was the cat's meow of pieces of shit. I shudder to think will happen if that CUNT Hitlary gets into the Oval Office.
- Hoon - 01-03-2007
if the election were held today, id vote for leiberman.
- The Jays - 01-03-2007
They only dug him because he was one of them? That's like saying the colonies only dug Washington because he was their general.
Clinton did worry about the "sand niggers", except he was worried about the right ones, not the Iraqis. He was worried about radical Islamic nuts like Osama, ones who operate apart from a country, who find havens in third world shitholes. And the one thing we all should have learned thus far is that you can't fight terrorism by making the shithole shittier. We just produce more terrorists that we can claim as victories. That's another reason why Zarqawi isn't a martyr, because another one's gonna fill his shoes, but to alot of the Iraqis, there'll never be another Saddam, and we ain't changing that opinion with Shi'ites controlling their government.
Bringing Clinton into the argument, you might as well bring Bush, Reagan, Carter, and Ford into the mix as well. Bush didn't go all out, Reagan armed the fucking guy, Carter helped Osama and the boys in Afghanistan while keeping Eqypt from getting their ass kicked by Israel again, and Ford fucked it up by funding a Kurdish rebellion backed by the Shah, and then fucked the Kurds when the shah signed a seperate deal with Saddam.
- Hoon - 01-03-2007
the washington comparison is horrible. the sunni's liked saddam because he wasn't mass murdering and torturing them, not because they loved him or for pride of country.
and saying clinton worried about the 'right' sandniggers is equally as awful a comparison. bush sr should've taken saddam when he had the chance, yes. but clinton let hussein rub his balls in his face for a decade. THAT'S what gave him the wrong impression that america was weak and didn't have the stomach to make him comply. if not for that, maybe saddam would've succumbed to inspections and the war not only wouldn't have happened but couldn't have happened under bush.
IF clinton had done his job, maybe 911 would've still happened but iraq wouldn't have been a worry. then bush could've spent all his time on al queda and bin laden after 911.
but you dont want to hear that logic, right? you just want to hear about how bush has horns and is responsible for everything wrong in the world today.
bush isn't perfect, far from it. but he's not the anti-christ you've built him up to be.
- faceman802 - 01-03-2007
So I'm watching the sadaam shit the other night and msnbc had the ultimate retrospective about him and his rise to power and all the rest of the shit he's done. After he invaded Iran and kept that war going for 8 years and basically making them ask for a cease fire when it became apparent he wasn't going to do it, he was treated like a fucking hero by that country and thought he could get away with whatever he wanted, hence invading kuwait a couple of years later.
Also something I found fascinating was they did an interview with Bush sr. about the original war and he said they didn't want to stay too long because they didn't want to get bogged down in a lengthy conflict that they had no exit strategy for so they did what they did and then got out quick. Also as for going after sadaam he said they thought about it but at no time, did they actually have a fucking clue where he was.
- The Jays - 01-03-2007
No, the reason I don't want to hear your logic because it is about as sound as a glass house built on the San Andreas fault. Your argument is nothing but blame Clinton, Hail Bush. What else was Clinton supposed to do short of breaking with internation protocol and pre-emptively go to war with Iraq? The fact is that the US worked through the UN and UNSCOM, as was the way we were supposed to do after the Gulf War, to make sure Saddam was kept in check in terms of weapons, and that we sanctioned the country up to their ass. And in 1998, two years left in Clinton's term, US Ambassador Peter Burliegh told UN Inspector Richard Butler to pull out when Saddam wasn't complying, and then Clinton proceed to sign into law funding for opposition groups for regime change in Iraq, as well as bomb the shit out of weapons facilities for four days, and what'd your homies on the right say? That Clinton was just trying to shift focus away from the blowjob he got. The dude just couldn't please your people no matter what.
At no point during this thread have I call Bush the anti-Christ or stated how he's the reason for all the world's problems, but he's fucked up on a larger scale foreign policy wise and domestic policy wise than his predecessor. He took a budget surplus and complete international support going into 2002, and has been blowing it ever since, but this is taking us away from your question on whether it is yay or nay for hanging Saddam. He got killed because he murdered alot of his own people, so yay, but that ain't the reason we went in, we served up a heap of bullshit to the UN, they said no, and so we went in anyway, then we found nothing, the UN is all "told ya so", and now we're in a conflict which mostly consists of our troops driving up and down streets, looking at curbs and rubble, and trying to spot and set off the explosives that the Iraqis keep setting as a way to tell us, "hey, fuck off."
- HedCold - 01-03-2007
i started off all this bickering.
that was my pure evil. beta version
i really don't see how people can doubt me after this
- The Jays - 01-03-2007
oh, I don't like this evil Hedcold.
- Keyser Soze - 01-03-2007
his blandness is a wicked scourge let loose on our community