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+--- Thread: NBA season - lets get retarded (/showthread.php?tid=9612)
- Sir O - 05-11-2005
I love Steve Nash and the Suns team, but cause I'm fucking bored...
JOHN STOCKTON WUZ JOBBED!!!! If Nash deserves one MVP, Stockton deserves ten.
Stockton was THE MAN, the purest point guard to ever wear the tiny shorts.
How great was John Stockton? Let me just put one aspect of his game in to historical perspective:
Averaging 10 assists per game for an entire season is a fairly uncommon occurance in the NBA. It has been done only 60 times in NBA history, including Steve Nash's 2005 MVP season.
The great point guards, as would be expected, dominate the list.
Isiah Thomas (*cough*great player horrible GM*cough*) did it 4 seperate times, with a high of 13.9 APG.
Oscar Robertson, arguably the greatest all-around player in professional basketball history, did it a full 5 times, topping out with 11.5 in 1964-65.
Magic Johnson, the greatest point guard in history, did it an astounding 9 times in his career, easily demolishing Robertson's previous NBA record on his way to becoming the all-time assists leader. His one-season best was 13.1 APG in 83-84.
Jason Kidd and Steve Nash are the only active players to have done it even once.
Bob Cousy never did it.
And Stockton?
Stockton went a full ten seasons in a row averaging 10+ assists per game. And when I say "10+", you should really emphasize the PLUS.
From the 87-88 season through the 91-92 season, a span of 5 full years, John Stocktom AVERAGED 14 assists per game.
5 of the top-6 APG seasons of all-time belong to John Stockton.
SO!
Having sufficiently emphasized Stockton's unparalleled ability to generate team offense, I'll quickly mention that he was also a career 51.% shooter which includes a 38.4% success rate from behind the arc.
Oh, and he was a five-time selection for the All-Defense 2nd Team and also the NBA's all-time leader in defensive steals.
John Stockton's 1994-95 season:
FG% - 54.2%
3PT - 44.9%
FT% - 80.4%
Assists/game - 12.3
PPG - 14.7
Rebounds - 3.1
Steals - 2.37
Turnovers - 3.26
JAZZ Record - 60-22 .732 (2nd in West)
The MVP was David Robinson
Steve Nash 2004-2005 Season:
FG% - 50.2%
3PT - 43.1%
FT% - 88.9%
Assists/game - 11.5
PPG - 15.5
Rebounds - 3.3
Steals - .99
Turnovers - 2.29
SUNS Record - 62-20 .756 (1st in West)
One point that should be made is that the Suns have some good players but no Karl Malone. Amare is good but is he Malone 94-95 good? I don't think so. But Karl Malone was basically ALL Stockton had in 94-95. There were multiple 2 and 3 guards, Blue Edwards and David Benoit anyone?, during those years. Nash has an offensive arsenal all around him with potential 30 point nights from every position on the floor. It is a shame that people will only appreciate how great Stockton was now that he is gone and people like me crunch numbers.
And I have no problem with Nash as MVP. He deserved it. But he's no John Stockton.
- fbd - 05-11-2005
stockton had to compete with barkley, jordan, olajuwan, robinson, and malone winning during his prime, not to mention guys like drexler, magic, zo, wilkins, young shaq, and kemp putting up some nice years here and there (i didnt actually look at any of their numbers during that span, just a list of people who were good during the 90s, so dont go off about kemp never being mvp worthy or something)
nash had to deal with shaq having a good year, but not his best, duncan and garnett being hurt, kobe sucking, kidd missing the begining of the season, lebron not winning games, and tmac having to split his scoring with yao. other than ai and dirk, all of the superstars really were subpar this year, so nash got lucky in his timing to have the best year of his life and that caused him to get the trophy. if stockton put up those numbers in a year like this, he would have won it
- HedCold - 05-11-2005
did the jazz ever win 60 games? i know they had big win seasons but i don't remember how big
- Sir O - 05-11-2005
I totally agree. Stockton, as great as he was, was never really an MVP candidate because guys like Jordan and Barkley and Olajuown etc. were at their best. (And Shawn Kemp was awesome back then, but credit Gary Payton for the Sonics' success...)
And like I said, I have no problem with Nash as MVP, he did deserve it. What he did and is doing for the Suns is incredible. But if you make a list of the top 10 NBA point guards, would Steve Nash be there? Kevin Johnson was as good - or better - than Steve Nash this year. But Kevin Johnson played under the shadow of his own teammate Barkley, not to mention Jordan and the great centers of the 90's...
- Sir O - 05-11-2005
HedCold Wrote:did the jazz ever win 60 games? i know they had big win seasons but i don't remember how big94-95: 60 Wins
96-97: 64 Wins
97-98: 62 Wins
- fbd - 05-11-2005
i feel sorry for stockton. he should have gotten one, somehow. he's the backup point guard on my all time favorite players team (favorite, not best)
- GonzoStyle - 05-11-2005
HedCold Wrote:if nash deserves it they should go back 3 years and give it to jason kidd, because what he did that year was way more impressiveI ain't gonna argue that point, even shaq said it that year when the lakers won the title that the real mvp was kidd.
- Galt - 05-12-2005
Sir O Wrote:I love Steve Nash and the Suns team, but cause I'm fucking bored...How could it be argued that Oscar Robertson is the greatest all-around player if Magic Johnson was the greatest point guard in history and therefore Robertson isn't even the greatest at his own position?
JOHN STOCKTON WUZ JOBBED!!!! If Nash deserves one MVP, Stockton deserves ten.
Stockton was THE MAN, the purest point guard to ever wear the tiny shorts.
How great was John Stockton? Let me just put one aspect of his game in to historical perspective:
Averaging 10 assists per game for an entire season is a fairly uncommon occurance in the NBA. It has been done only 60 times in NBA history, including Steve Nash's 2005 MVP season.
The great point guards, as would be expected, dominate the list.
Isiah Thomas (*cough*great player horrible GM*cough*) did it 4 seperate times, with a high of 13.9 APG.
Oscar Robertson, arguably the greatest all-around player in professional basketball history, did it a full 5 times, topping out with 11.5 in 1964-65.
Magic Johnson, the greatest point guard in history, did it an astounding 9 times in his career, easily demolishing Robertson's previous NBA record on his way to becoming the all-time assists leader. His one-season best was 13.1 APG in 83-84.
Jason Kidd and Steve Nash are the only active players to have done it even once.
Bob Cousy never did it.
And Stockton?
Stockton went a full ten seasons in a row averaging 10+ assists per game. And when I say "10+", you should really emphasize the PLUS.
From the 87-88 season through the 91-92 season, a span of 5 full years, John Stocktom AVERAGED 14 assists per game.
5 of the top-6 APG seasons of all-time belong to John Stockton.
SO!
Having sufficiently emphasized Stockton's unparalleled ability to generate team offense, I'll quickly mention that he was also a career 51.% shooter which includes a 38.4% success rate from behind the arc.
Oh, and he was a five-time selection for the All-Defense 2nd Team and also the NBA's all-time leader in defensive steals.
John Stockton's 1994-95 season:
FG% - 54.2%
3PT - 44.9%
FT% - 80.4%
Assists/game - 12.3
PPG - 14.7
Rebounds - 3.1
Steals - 2.37
Turnovers - 3.26
JAZZ Record - 60-22 .732 (2nd in West)
The MVP was David Robinson
Steve Nash 2004-2005 Season:
FG% - 50.2%
3PT - 43.1%
FT% - 88.9%
Assists/game - 11.5
PPG - 15.5
Rebounds - 3.3
Steals - .99
Turnovers - 2.29
SUNS Record - 62-20 .756 (1st in West)
One point that should be made is that the Suns have some good players but no Karl Malone. Amare is good but is he Malone 94-95 good? I don't think so. But Karl Malone was basically ALL Stockton had in 94-95. There were multiple 2 and 3 guards, Blue Edwards and David Benoit anyone?, during those years. Nash has an offensive arsenal all around him with potential 30 point nights from every position on the floor. It is a shame that people will only appreciate how great Stockton was now that he is gone and people like me crunch numbers.
And I have no problem with Nash as MVP. He deserved it. But he's no John Stockton.
How could Robertson's 5 seasons of 10+ assists, be described as "full" and Stockton's 10 also be described as "full" while yet another 5-year subsection of Stockton's career also be described as "full". Wouldn't Robertson's only be half-full, at best? What happens if someone eventually has 11 seasons? Which one is full then?
Nash didn't deserve the MVP. O'Neal clearly deserved it. Just look at the 80 game swing between the Lakers and Heat between this year and last.
Nash won the MVP for one pass, and it wasn't even during the regular season.
- fbd - 05-12-2005
the 80 game swing isnt due to just shaq, though. the lakers lost malone and payton, two other hall of famers, not to mention key contributers like rick fox and derek fisher. phil jackson left, so they had to learn a new play style, and they changed coaches in the middle of the year. add in the fact that there was in season drama with guys like chucky atkins calling out kobe, you end up with a losing season
miami, on the other hand, lost a head case in odom and gained solid veterans like zo, laettner, and smith. shaq is a likeable guy, while kobe throws teammates under the bus. same coach, same emerging star, new superstar, good vets, and being in the eastern conference leads to an incredible season.
- HedCold - 05-12-2005
if kobe opens up his game a little him and odom could be doing some jordan/pippen like things
and go pacers! wooooo
- HedCold - 05-14-2005
hoo ha!
- GonzoStyle - 05-14-2005
HedCold Wrote:if kobe opens up his game a little him and odom could be doing some jordan/pippen like thingsnot for nothin but he played much better when he was on trial and I think he needs to fuck some more white bitches.
and go pacers! wooooo
- Galt - 05-14-2005
WHEN IS SIR O GOING TO ANSWER TO MY QUESTIONS??!!!
- Sir O - 05-14-2005
Quote:How could it be argued that Oscar Robertson is the greatest all-around player if Magic Johnson was the greatest point guard in history and therefore Robertson isn't even the greatest at his own position?
Magic Johnson was IMO the best ever at running the floor, the primary job of a point guard.
I call Oscar Robertson (arguably) the greatest all-around player ever because nobody before or since did as many things on the court as well as he did. He was one of the best scorers ever from any position, averaging 25.7 points per game, seventh among retired players (Magic Johnson's 19.5 doesn't even crack the top-50). He averaged 10+ rebounds three times and 9+ twice, while Magic only once topped 9+. He was the only player ever to average a triple-double for a season, and in fact averaged a triple double over his first five seasons collectively. He was also one of the premier backcourt defenders during his era while Magic, while no slouch, was never quite seen as a top defender, certainly not on Robertson's level.
k?
- GonzoStyle - 05-15-2005
WHAT NOW MOTHERFUCKER!!!
- Galt - 05-15-2005
If Robertson is Magic was "the best point guard in history" then he's better than Robertson. Which means that Robertson can't be the best all-around player! It's impossible.
And how can 5 and 10 both be "full"??
You're a FRAUD!!!!!!
- Sir O - 05-15-2005
Quote:If Robertson is Magic was "the best point guard in history" then he's better than Robertson.
English motherfucker! Do you speak it?!?
Quote:Which means that Robertson can't be the best all-around player! It's impossible.
You don't watch basketball, do you? Bill Russell was one of the five best players ever, but if for some retarded reason he played most of his career he played point guard, nobody would ever call him a great point guard. Because different positions require different skills. If you can find me one player who could do what Oscar Robertson could do on both ends of the floor...every aspect of the game...put him on the fucking KNICKS.
Quote:And how can 5 and 10 both be "full"??
You're a FRAUD!!!!!!
Channeling Arpi, no?
If I have two tables, on one I have 5 glasses and on the other I have 10. I fill all 15 glasses with water. How many full glasses are there?
- fbd - 05-15-2005
best all around doesnt mean best at his position, it means best jack of all trades do everything type player. if you're putting together a team and need a guy to play floor general, run the break, toss out assists and the like, you would take magic. if you were picking teams in gym class with the entire hall of fame in your class, a)you'd look like you were 5 and b)you'd take robertson first, before wilt, kareem, magic, walton, barkley, bird and everyone else and build around him
- fbd - 05-24-2005
so...now that we're down to four, any picks?
- The Jays - 05-24-2005
Miami over Spurs in 5