+- CDIH (https://www.cdih.net/cdih)
+-- Forum: General Discussion and Entertainment (https://www.cdih.net/cdih/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: SportsCenter (https://www.cdih.net/cdih/forumdisplay.php?fid=12)
+--- Thread: American League Outfielder Caught Using Steroids (/showthread.php?tid=10722)
Pages:
1
2
- Keyser Soze - 10-28-2005
Appearing on Sports Bloggers Live, Baseball Prospectus columnist Will Carroll suggested that an American League outfielder from this season's playoffs has tested positive for steroids…
The same buzz appeared in this morning's USA Today Sports Weekly…
Fore more on this, check out Baseball Musings and Deadspin…
For what it's worth, Johnny Damon, Trot Nixon, Manny Ramirez, Garret Anderson, Steve Finley, Vladdy Guerrero, Hideki Matsui, Gary Sheffield, Bernie Williams, Aaron Rowand, Scott Podsednik and Jermaine Dye make up this season's AL outfielders who played in the playoffs….
- HedCold - 10-28-2005
its probably someone like bubba crosby or some other bench warmer
- HollywoodJewMoses - 10-28-2005
its probably damon or trot
- GonzoStyle - 10-28-2005
It's bernie and he gets suspended and retires.
- Arpikarhu - 10-28-2005
my bet is trot nixon. his injury history screams steroid abuse.
- Keyser Soze - 10-28-2005
once again, i agree with arpi
- HollywoodJewMoses - 10-28-2005
which means you agree with me, manlover.
- GonzoStyle - 10-28-2005
so are they sitting on this or is it going to be revealed?
- HollywoodJewMoses - 10-28-2005
they will probably sit on it.
if it comes out that someone was allowed to play in the playoffs after testing positive, mlb is going to be fucked.
- GonzoStyle - 10-28-2005
they're fucked even worse if its out there that they know and won't release it.
- Bloody Anus - 10-29-2005
Okay, this is the final, end all to all of this steroid bullshit. This is not just my opinion on the subject, it is the bottom line truth. Anybody that disagrees is not entitled to their opinion; they are flat out wrong.
First let's begin with what was the turning point in this controversy - Jose Canseco's book. Admittedly, I have not read it, nor do I intend to anytime soon. The only intrigue I have is to who he namedrops in the book in regards to taking steroids. We all know of McGwire, Palmeiro, and whatever other big names he dropped. My question is whether or not he mentions people like Mickey Tettleton or Carney Lansford or Dean Palmer or Stan Javier or Kevin Reimer, or any pitchers for that matter. Just because a player takes steroids does not automatically mean he will become a more productive player. Sure it helped Canseco, but how many mediocre players used steroids that never saw the results that he did? Point is, you still need to have a shitload of talent to be able to be a great baseball player. Growing more muscle is completely irrelevant if you don't have the fundamental skills. Put Bill Romanowski or Lyle Alzado in a batter's box and see if he can hit a curveball any better than any of the 5 players above could.
During the whole Palmeiro scandal, Frank Robinson came out with the insane belief that all of his numbers should be erased from the record books because he used steroids. What a fucking idiot. I can only hope that 50 years from now people are not so ignorant and short sighted to believe in this nonsense. 50 years from now, this entire era of baseball ought to be remembered as the "performance enhancement" era rather than merely the steroid era. Does anybody actually remember way back in 1994 when everyone was crying that the ball is juiced? How fucking stupid was that in retrospect? No, it couldn't have anything to do with the players being bigger than than they were 10, 30, 50 years ago. And why were they getting so much bigger? Steroids? Yes, of course. You'd be stupid not to admit that. But there are also so many other factors - creatine, andro, and the hundreds of other non-steroid supplements that became available not only to ballplayers but to EVERYBODY. How long has GNC and other health stores like it been around to offer these supplements? I don't know off hand, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say they weren't available in the 50's and 60's and 70's. Regardless of if they were available, what did players in this era do with themselves during the offseason? They sat on their ass, got drunk, worked a 2nd or 3rd job to support their families, came back in March, dusted off their glove and got back into playing shape by April or May. Baseball today is a year-round profession. Steroids or not, supplements or not, players today need to work out year round - winter ball, Dominican leagues, etc.
At the same time, it is completely asinine to even compare baseball today to the 50's, 60's, and 70's. Which makes people that say Barry Bonds' accomplishments are tainted completely fucking retarded. Okay, let's say for arguments sake Bonds took steroids and Aaron didn't. Fine. Bonds also works out a lot more during the winter than Aaron ever did. Bonds plays a lot of his games at Coors Field, Minute Maid Park, and Great American Park, and Aaron never did. Aaron faced elite starting pitchers that threw 300+ innings/year. Bonds didn't. Aaron played against far fewer teams, and thus far fewer pitchers, than Bonds does. Bonds gets walked 200+ times a season, Aaron didn't. Bonds has played in far more stadiums than Aaron ever did. You can't just make a blanket statement that the only reason Bonds will break Aaron's record (assuming he does) is becuase of steroids. Anybody that does knows nothing at all about baseball. Just look at a typical Bonds at bat the last few seasons. He is constantly pitched around. Even when it's a 10-0 game and pitchers are trying to throw strikes to get him out, he has mastered the strike zone to the extent that he will not chase anything that he knows he can't handle. Steroids has absolutely nothing to do with that. It sounds as stupid as people that wanted to put an asterisk next to Maris' record because he played 8 more games than Ruth. The game evolves; that's nobody's fault. How many other players played in the same number of games as Maris, or the same number of games as Bonds, and came nowhere close to 61? How many players have used steroids and how many of them have 700 home runs?
Why in the fuck are steroids such a huge problem and such a big black eye for the sport in the first place? Typical answer: Because it's cheating. WRONG. If people have such a problem with cheaters, then why do they not have a problem with pitchers like Gaylord Perry or Phil Niekro or whoever else threw a spitball? Throwing a spitball is illegal, and thus cheating. I think it was also one of the Niekro's that got caught with a nail file or vaseline or something in his hat. This is also cheating. How about when Albert Belle was caught using a corked bat? Or when the hundreds of other players were caught using a corked bat? These players were also guilty of cheating, but you hear nothing of putting asterisks next to their statistics, or of wiping them out completely. Why is that? Simple - because the root issue here is not at all about cheating. It's about using steroids, which is considered a drug. And drugs have become such a taboo in this country that the mere thought of athletes or anybody considered a "hero" using them causes people to lose their fucking minds. They can't deal with it. Steroids can potentially be dangerous. Well, steroids can also be potentially helpful. I mean fuck, they do have a purpose. They do exist for a reason other than to turn athletes into dirty cheaters. When used properly and moderately, steroids probably help more people than hurt them.
Speaking of corked bats, Lou Gehrig has officailly passed the torch of the luckiest man on the face of the earth to the biggest winner of the entire steroids scandal. All the controversy is on Bonds because he's approaching Ruth and Aaron. All the controversy was on Palmeiro after joining the elite 500/3000 club. But the person that has got to be breathing a huge sigh of relief is Sammy fucking Sosa. Remember him? Of course not, because he hasn't really done much the last few years. Why is that? He goes absolutely apeshit from 1998-2001, then his numbers rapidly decline over the next 4 years. No big deal, it happens to everybody as they age. But what doesn't happen to everybody is their body physically shrinking in direct correlation with their statistics shirinking. The guy looks more now like he did in 1991 than he did in 2001. Amidst all the steroid talk, you'd think he'd be at the forefront, but he's not because he isn't approaching any major milestones, sans 600 home runs, but by the time he gets there nobody will even question it because he'll be 170 pounds again. Of course, he hasn't been proven guilty of anything. But then again neither has Bonds, but everyone's ready to crucify him. At least Bonds hasn't been caught red-handed with cork in his fucking bat. Sosa lied about that, he lied about leaving that game early in 2004, and he lied about steroids. But he'll end up in Cooperstown with no questions asked. What a lucky prick.
I suppose the main point is that the game changes, and steroids and performance enhancing drugs are all a part of that. It's no different than anything else in the game that has changed. Medicine has come a long way the last 30+ years. Tommy John surgery did not exist in the 50's and 60's and 70's, nor did a majority of the surgeries and procedures that are available today. Careers last longer. There is so much more available to the modern athlete that was not available all those years ago. Teams employ a full staff of trainers and doctors now. There was not as much emphasis on bullpens 30 years ago. Pitchers threw 300+ innings and 30 complete games a season. Why is today's pitcher incapable of throwing this much? Teams did not have access to video of every opposing hitter and pitcher like they do today. Fox and ESPN and MLB In Demand did not exist 30 years ago. There was no interleage play 30 years ago. There was no wild card 30 years ago. There was no body armor 30 years ago. Catchers helmets are much bigger today than they were 30 years ago. Teams did not build new stadiums as frequently as they do today. There weren't as many domes today as there were 30 years ago. And there weren't steroids 30 years ago. So the fuck what? The sport evolves all the time, this is just a small part of it. Get over it.
- Goatweed - 10-29-2005
^^^^^ that post belongs on ESPN or something. bra-fucking-vo!
- GonzoStyle - 10-29-2005
I absolutely agree on some of the points, I hate the mxing of eras though its a fun debate at times it is usually pointless.
I love boxing as most know, more than any other sport and I love its history. I hate the debates of who would win if this guy fought that guy. It's unfair to think a person from today would not beat a person from the 20's or 50's. Because as BA pointed out not only do athletes evolve but the sport evolves, the game changes, the rules change.
In one aspect a fighter of Jack Johnsons era didn't have the traning methods, equipment or supplements of someone from the current era. In other aspects the people of the Johnson era fought with smaller gloves and trained to fight upwards of 20, 30, and at times 50 rounds fights that lasted hours and sometimes most of the day.
Also with all the advancements the athletes themselves have changed. People like Dempsy, Marciano and others if they fought today would be light heavyweights and cruiserweights. When Joe Louis fought at 190-200 pounds he was considered to be a large heavyweight, today you have the klitchskos and lewis' who weigh in the 250-270 range, there are no heavyweights under the 220 mark anymore.
The rules have also dramatically changed in boxing from the number of rounds, to the types of gloves to the neutral corner rule. In Dempsy's day you could stand right over your opponent if you knocked him down and begin punching him again as soon as his glove left the canvas, he didnt even have to be upright.
The same goes for every sport from basketball to baseball.
There's so many factors from the number of teams to the expansion era leading to a thinning in pitching, to the new playoff structure, etc.
Steroids may be an unfair advantage or may not depending on a case by case basis but with all the 100's of supplements available in health chains, who is to say whats giving who an advantage.
- Keyser Soze - 11-02-2005
And the winner is.......Matt Lawton
- HollywoodJewMoses - 11-02-2005
of course it was a yankee, dirty cheaters.
- The Jays - 11-03-2005
was he a Yankee?
- The Jays - 11-03-2005
Oh yeah, hes the guy we got at the deadline who sucked ass so he never played much.
- Gooch - 11-03-2005
and black
- HedCold - 11-03-2005
HedCold Wrote:its probably someone like bubba crosby or some other bench warmer^^^^
- GonzoStyle - 11-03-2005
yeah like that narrowed the margin down.