Cal Ripken is not a Hall of Famer

Cal Ripken is not a Hall of Famer - Printable Version

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Cal Ripken is not a Hall of Famer - Bloody Anus - 01-09-2007

Well, not really. He's as easy a 1st-ballot choice as there's ever been. 400+ HR and, more importantly, 3100+ hits are automatic. But considering he played 21 seasons, including 16 1/2 consecutively, the numbers are really not that impressive.

1 30 HR season
4 100 RBI seasons
2 200 hit seasons
5 .300 seasons

He was a very good, consistent, durable player. No way he is a HOF'er though if he averages, say, 142 games played instead of 162.

That's not to take anything away from the streak. It is what it is and will never be done again. But Gehrig's worst year is better than Ripken's best. It's unfair to compare players from different eras - especially to Gehrig - but in this case it is very telling because the streak is 95% of why Ripken is a HOFer in the first place. Without the streak, he'd just be an infield version of Andre Dawson/Harold Baines/Dwight Evans/Dave Parker.

- Galt - 01-09-2007

I remember when Bill Simmons wrote this article in 2002.

I forget the stat, but it was either VORP or WARP3 or one of those sabermetric stats, but I saw something once that when looking at that, Ripken was one of the top 25 players of all time because it factored his offense and defense against other shortstops (who all sucked at the time). I tried to do a search to validate it, but I can't find anything so maybe I'm all wet.

So even discounting the streak, if he was that head and shoulders above every other professional shortstop for a decade (in terms of offense and defense), then he probably deserves to be in.

But certainly, the last 5+ years of his career he sucked because of the streak. He was hurting his team just to get some retarded milestone.

- Gooch - 01-09-2007

Orioles never went anywhere anyway. Streak was about the only thing they had going

- Galt - 01-09-2007

Never went anywhere? They did win the World Series with Ripken.

They also made the playoffs in '96 and '97 right when beating the streak was just over the horizon. Maybe if Ripken at 36 and 37 would have performed better if he were more rested

- faceman802 - 01-09-2007

from his "biography" on espn classic

Quote:When Cal Ripken Jr. played in his 2,131st consecutive game, passing Lou Gehrig, he snapped what many baseball people had considered an unbreakable record. Ripken extended his streak to 2,632, and this is his lasting monument.

But it is also something of a curse, since it has sometimes obscured his talents and given rise to a debate about whether the Baltimore Orioles infielder might have been a better player if he had taken an occasional day off. Eight seasons during the streak he failed to hit .270 and his career average, over 3,001 games, was .276.

On the other hand, Ripken's accomplishments are many. In 14 of his 21 seasons, he collected more than 20 homers. Eight times he drove in more than 90 runs. A two-time MVP, he holds the record for most homers by a shortstop and set a standard of excellence for shortstops in 1990 by committing only three errors.

Retiring after the 2001 season with 3,184 hits and 431 homers, he is one of only two American Leaguers -- Carl Yastrzemski is the other -- to have more than 3,000 hits and 400 homers.

Stats can be analyzed any way you want to praise or hurt a player and his chances at the hall. We've all seen it. He's considered a "god" of the 80's and is going to make it easy regardless of "questionable" stats. What I'm more interested in is if the other "borderline" candidates get in, ie. Gossage, Dawson, Rice and also how high or low a percentage of votes McGwire gets due to his steroid problems

- Gooch - 01-09-2007

Galt Wrote:Never went anywhere? They did win the World Series with Ripken.

They also made the playoffs in '96 and '97 right when beating the streak was just over the horizon. Maybe if Ripken at 36 and 37 would have performed better if he were more rested

i take back my statement. i thought they won before/after.

- The Sleeper - 01-09-2007

Quote:So even discounting the streak, if he was that head and shoulders above every other professional shortstop for a decade (in terms of offense and defense), then he probably deserves to be in.

exactly. if he was a first basemen, he'd be borderline. but at shortstop, he's a lock. shortstops didn't start putting up power numbers til the tail end of his career.

- HedCold - 01-09-2007

Votes Pct.
Cal Ripken Jr. 537 98.5
Tony Gwynn 532 97.6
Rich Gossage 388 71.2
Jim Rice 346 63.5
Andre Dawson 309 56.7
Bert Blyleven 260 47.7
Lee Smith 217 39.8
Jack Morris 202 37.1
Mark McGwire 128 23.5
Tommy John 125 22.9
Steve Garvey 115 21.1
Dave Concepcion 74 13.6
Alan Trammell 73 13.4
Dave Parker 62 11.4
Don Mattingly 54 9.9
Dale Murphy 50 9.2
Harold Baines 29 5.3
Orel Hershiser 24 4.4
Albert Belle 19 3.5
Paul O'Neill 12 2.2
Bret Saberhagen 7 1.3
Jose Canseco 6 1.1
Tony Fernandez 4 0.7
Dante Bichette 3 0.6
Eric Davis 3 0.6
Bobby Bonilla 2 0.4
Ken Caminiti 2 0.4
Jay Buhner 1 0.2
Scott Brosius 0 0
Wally Joyner 0 0
Devon White 0 0
Bobby Witt 0 0

bobby bo with a cool 2 votes

- faceman802 - 01-09-2007

who the fuck voted for ken caminiti and dante bichette for the hall of fame? they should have their voting rights taken away from them forever

- Gooch - 01-09-2007

Goose should have gotten the nod too. hopefully next year.

- faceman802 - 01-09-2007

there's nobody significant on the ballot next year so he's almost a shoe-in unless they don't want anybody in. Make for an interesting ceremony though if they don't induct anybody in

- Galt - 01-09-2007

McGwire will get in next year after he admits taking steroids, says it was only for a year or two, and throws himself on the mercy of the sportswriters.

- Bloody Anus - 01-10-2007

I don't really buy into the whole "best at his position for a decade" thing because it will ultimately lead to Barry Larkin getting in. Just because there were no better shortstops in the league than him at the time does not necessarily mean he's a Hall of Famer.

On a side note, and it's largely a by-product of the streak, but Ripken also holds the record for most times grounding into double plays.

Quote:there's nobody significant on the ballot next year so he's almost a shoe-in unless they don't want anybody in. Make for an interesting ceremony though if they don't induct anybody in

Get used to it. Every active, HOF-worthy player with 300+ home runs will have the "steroid era" stigma hung over them and very few, if any, will be 1st-ballot choices. This is the only way that players like Rice, Dawson and (somehow) Blyleven will eventually get in.

- The Sleeper - 01-10-2007

hall of fame shortstops

Quote: Honus Wagner* 1897-1917 1936 2792 10430 1736 3415 640 252 101 1732 963 327 .327 .391 .466 722 15 150
Rogers Hornsby* 1915-1937 1942 2259 8173 1579 2930 541 169 301 1584 1038 679 .358 .434 .577 135 64 175
Hughie Jennings* 1891-1918 1945 1285 4904 994 1527 232 88 18 840 347 117 .311 .390 .406 359 0 117
Joe Tinker* 1902-1916 1946 1804 6434 774 1687 263 114 31 782 416 149 .262 .308 .353 336 0 96
Bobby Wallace* 1894-1918 1953 2383 8618 1057 2309 391 143 34 1121 774 79 .268 .332 .358 201 2 105
Rabbit Maranville* 1912-1935 1954 2670 10078 1255 2605 380 177 28 884 839 756 .258 .318 .340 291 93 82
Joe Cronin* 1926-1945 1956 2124 7579 1233 2285 515 118 170 1424 1059 700 .301 .390 .468 87 71 119
Luke Appling* 1930-1950 1964 2422 8856 1319 2749 440 102 45 1116 1302 528 .310 .399 .398 179 108 112
John Ward* 1878-1894 1964 1825 7647 1408 2104 231 96 26 867 420 326 .275 .314 .341 540 0 93
Lou Boudreau* 1938-1952 1970 1646 6029 861 1779 385 66 68 789 796 309 .295 .380 .415 51 50 120
Dave Bancroft* 1915-1930 1971 1913 7182 1048 2004 320 77 32 591 827 487 .279 .355 .358 145 75 98
Ernie Banks* 1953-1971 1977 2528 9421 1305 2583 407 90 512 1636 763 1236 .274 .330 .500 50 53 122
Joe Sewell* 1920-1933 1977 1903 7132 1141 2226 436 68 49 1055 842 114 .312 .391 .413 74 72 109
Travis Jackson* 1922-1936 1982 1656 6086 833 1768 291 86 135 929 412 565 .291 .337 .433 71 13 102
Luis Aparicio* 1956-1973 1984 2601 10230 1335 2677 394 92 83 791 736 742 .262 .311 .343 506 136 82
Pee Wee Reese* 1940-1958 1984 2166 8058 1338 2170 330 80 126 885 1210 890 .269 .366 .377 232 45 99
Arky Vaughan* 1932-1948 1985 1817 6622 1173 2103 356 128 96 926 937 276 .318 .406 .453 118 0 136
Phil Rizzuto* 1941-1956 1994 1661 5816 877 1588 239 62 38 563 651 398 .273 .351 .355 149 58 93
George Davis* 1890-1909 1998 2368 9031 1539 2660 451 163 73 1437 870 180 .295 .361 .405 616 0 121
Robin Yount* 1974-1993 1999 2856 11008 1632 3142 583 126 251 1406 966 1350 .285 .342 .430 271 105 115
Ozzie Smith* 1978-1996 2002 2573 9396 1257 2460 402 69 28 793 1072 589 .262 .337 .328 580 148 87
Cal Ripken* 1981-2001 2007 3001 11551 1647 3184 603 44 431 1695 1129 1305 .276 .340 .447 36 39 112

the only players on that list who are more deserving than cal ripken are honus wagner, rogers hornsby, and ernie banks. so do you want to kick everyone else out?

- faceman802 - 01-10-2007

from the hall of fame site, here are the NEW eligible players on the ballot for the next couple of years. All in all it's going to be an interesting couple of years.

2008: Shawon Dunston, Travis Fryman, David Justice, Mike Morgan, Tim Raines, Randy Velarde
2009: Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson, Dean Palmer, Dan Plesac, Matt Williams
2010: Andres Galarraga, Edgar Martinez, Robin Ventura

- Galt - 01-10-2007

In the next three years:

2008: Gossage, McGwire
2009: Henderson
2010: Rice, Blyleven

- Bloody Anus - 01-10-2007

Based on today's standards, there's no reason Martinez should not get in. Maybe not 1st-ballot because of the writers' DH bias, but eventually. Raines I think will also sneak in at some point.

- GonzoStyle - 01-10-2007

Quote:Don Mattingly 54 9.9

HAHa!