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+--- Thread: Everyone loves an underdog or do they? (/showthread.php?tid=4285)
- GonzoStyle - 11-25-2002
It was supposed to be a foregone conclusion for everyone in the crowd. The champion would defeat the challenger without much trouble. That is until the challenger knocks down the champion in the opening round. The crowd rises to its feet in shock, the under dog whom no one gave a chance is standing over “the greatest”. The challenger was Chuck Wepner and the man he knocked down was Muhammad Ali. One of the people in the audience was a struggling actor who spent his last dollars for a ticket to see the fight. Though Ali would eventually win the fight, the idea was planted in this young mans mind. Everyone loves to see the underdog win, the hopeless who finds hope. That young man’s name was Sylvester Stallone and the idea he got that night would end up being “Rocky ™”.
We all love to see the underdog somehow pull off a victory against someone whom they stand no chance against. Maybe it makes us feel that if they can accomplish the impossible, then we can also. Maybe it’s just cause we hate seeing the same person or teams win over and over again. How many times can we have the Yankees or The Lakers win. How many times can you fathom to see Tiger Woods hold up a trophy? Granted these are the people who have distinguished themselves from everyone else because of their greatness. It is astonishing to watch the accomplishments Tiger constantly attains.
Who didn’t love seeing John Starks dunk on Michael Jordan? Yeah but what is the big deal, Jordan did that on such a constant basis it became almost expected of him. The big deal is for that one moment he got a taste of his own medicine, it felt good. How many people jumped on The Sacramento Kings bandwagon during last seasons NBA playoffs? How bad did every want to see the Lakers dethroned?
Then again after thinking about it for a while, the law of the jungle is that the lion is king of the jungle. There is a certain chain that has to be followed, you disrupt that chain and a chain reaction begins. What I mean is, while it is sweet to see a cocky athlete get his mouth shut it isn’t always a good thing. Let me explain by using the sport I love most.
I will use a recent event to show you how an under dog has disrupted the chain of events in the sport of boxing. Last year promoter Don King set up a tournament to unify the Middleweight Titles. The Four-Man elimination included all three champions and Felix Trinidad. The finals ended up with Long Time champion Bernard Hopkins facing the younger, stronger and faster Trinidad. Anyone who says they gave Hopkins a chance is probably full of it. Those are the same people who probably knew Spacey was Keyser Soze throughout the whole movie.
The showdown was no more than just a stepping stone to the true prize. If…no, when Trinidad beat Hopkins. Trinidad would move up in weight to meet the pound for pound king, light heavyweight champion Roy Jones Jr. Boxing fans drooled at the thought of it. The only problem is, Bernard Hopkins closing in on 40 years of age disrupted everyone’s plans. He knocked out the unstoppable Felix Trinidad in the 12th and final round of the fight. To prove how much a forgone conclusion it was that Trinidad would win. Hopkins was not presented with his winning trophy that night because Trinidad’s name was already inscribed on it.
I was happier than probably anyone that Hopkins beat Trinidad. Finally someone stopped him and shut him up. A year later now, Trinidad has retired and Hopkins has had one fight since against a mandatory challenger whom posed no threat. The Trinidad Vs Jones fight never happened. The Hopkins vs. Jones fight seemed like the next best thing. Jones offered Hopkins twice the amount of his biggest payday ever. But it would call for a 60/40 split in favor of Jones. Hopkins wanted 50/50, which is absurd. First and foremost Jones already owns a win over Hopkins, granted it was 8 years ago. Plus it would be Jones titles on the line. It was because Hopkins knew what most of us tried to ignore; Jones would destroy Hopkins once again. 8 years ago Jones defeated Hopkins with a fractured right hand, why should it be different now? Jones is stronger and Hopkins is weary.
So now Hopkins is going nowhere, Jones is moving up to heavyweight in a dangerous fight that might shorten if not end his career. The middleweight division is at a standstill, the light heavyweight division will be in shambles soon. We lost Trinidad and now where do we go?
For the nonchalant fans, I’ll give you an easier example. Just remember Tyson Vs. Douglas, think, what if? Does anyone care that the Houston Rockets won back to back NBA titles during Jordans absence?
- Hey Ladi - 11-26-2002
Quote:Jones is moving up to heavyweight in a dangerous fight that might shorten if not end his career. The middleweight division is at a standstill, the light heavyweight division will be in shambles soon.
I think I was following along ok, but you lost me when you got to this stuff
does everyone try to move thru the divisions? Is that common? I guess I just figured they stayed in one.
Are there fans of only one division? Do you prefer a certain kind?
- Hybrid - 11-26-2002
Quote:Those are the same people who probably knew Spacey was Keyser Soze throughout the whole movie.
i dont know what movie that is but you just ruined it :-(
- GonzoStyle - 11-26-2002
Quote:I think I was following along ok, but you lost me when you got to this stuff
does everyone try to move thru the divisions? Is that common? I guess I just figured they stayed in one.
Are there fans of only one division? Do you prefer a certain kind?
Good question, boxing itself is a very confusing sport for the casual fans.
Back in the day prior to the mid 70's. There were only 8 weight classes and one recognized champion. Now the divisions have doubled and there are 3 recognized belts for each division.
So a division can have as many as three "world" champions. But now they are starting to crack down on this by recognizing one person as the true champion and calling the others "title holders" which is all they are.
For example, Roy Jones is the "undisputed champion" because he alone holds all three belts. But Lennox Lewis is recognized as the true champion in the heavyweight division cause he is the best in everyones eyes. BUT Lewis only holds one belt. John Ruiz holds the WBA belt and the IBF belt is up for grabs in an elimination bout next month. So Ruiz is simply a title holder while everyone recognizes Lewis at the heavyweight champion.... yes, very confusing.
Moving up or down in weight is very common. Roy Jones started off at a middleweight and moved up in weight through the years. The reason for moving up in weight can be for three reasons.
1 - It is harder for a boxer to "make" weight through the years. Making weight is very hard, if you fight at say 147 pounds you have to weigh in at 147 or less, if you come in at 147 and a 1/4 pounds you can not fight. Some fighters starve and dehydrate themselves to make weight, the reason being they feel they have en edge if they are naturally bigger and they fight someone who is smaller. You can weight in the day before at 147 but gain 10 pounds overnight and come in at 160 for the fight and that is legal. The only division that does not require weight limits is the heavyweight division.
2 - People move up for money, the bigger the weight the more money people stand to make. Oscar Delahoya moved up from the 130's to the 140's and now 150's to make more money.
3 - A Champion can clean out a division. There can come a point where someone has been champion for a while and has beaten everyone in his weight class and it is time to move on. Which is what Roy Jones is basically doing. He has dominated the light heavyweight division to the point where he has beaten everyone there is in the top 10, top 20 even. So he is moving up in weight to find new challanges.
The only reason I am worried about his move up in weight is simple. Most fighters move up 3 pounds or 5 pounds and that is huge for a fighter. Cause its not like you eat some junk food and put on 5 pounds, you have to put on 5 pounds on muscle and 1 or 2 pounds makes a big difference when you fight at 130 pounds or 140 pounds.
Roy Jones is moving up from 175 pounds to a division where most fighters weigh north of 220 pounds. Lennox Lewis weighs in between 240-250 pounds. Roy Jones began his career at 154 pounds and he is under 6 feet tall, for him to move up past 200 pounds is a bad idea.
The greatest fighter ever in my opinion and many others was Sugar Ray Robinson and he was the greatest welterweight champion ever, that is in the 140's as far as weight. Robinson was dominant buthe also moved up in weight to middleweight. while he was a good middleweight at 160 pounds he was never as great, he lost a lot. Then he tried to challange for the 175 pound title and almost literally died trying.
In all of history only one many successfully won the heavyweight championship moving up from light heavyweight. The odds and logic is not on roy jones side.
- Hey Ladi - 11-26-2002
:thumbs-up: now I just need to watch some
- The Sleeper - 06-18-2003
Mark Prior
- Galt - 06-18-2003
Sleeper should be banned for topping all of these
- The Sleeper - 06-18-2003
yes i should
- Galt - 06-18-2003
yes
- The Sleeper - 06-18-2003
Y
- Galt - 06-19-2003
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