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+--- Thread: It's Bobby Valentine's fault - Mets thread (/showthread.php?tid=5204)
- Teenweek - 02-03-2003
I am not a Mets fan. In fact I hate them. This thread comes not from a Yankee fan but a baseball fan. I find it interesting that all of the blame last year lies solely on Bobby Valentine. Mo Vaughn blames his bad year on Bobby V. Mike Stanton and Tom Glavine say they never would have signed with the Mets if Bobby V was manager. I am a Yankees fan and took great pleasure in seeing the Mets suck, but it definitely was not his fault. Cedeno sucked. Mo Vaughn is a fat out of shape piece of shit who could not even bend down to pick up a ball. Alomar had the worst year of his career. Benitez blew games against teams over .500 as usual. Besides Leiter the rotation pretty much sucked. Just like the rangers and Knicks I think much of the fault lies with the GM, and not the coach. Most of the blame should go to Steve Phillips and the players for blowing big time.
- LyricalGomez - 02-03-2003
I miss football :-(
- Keyser Soze - 02-03-2003
As a Mets fan, I agree with you.
You can't realistically expect all the players who had down years last year to repeat their performance from last year. Between Alomar, Vaughn, Piazza, Burnitz, Cedeno, and Floyd you have to at least expect half if not all of them to play to their career averages or better. If they can at least do that, the Mets will be very competitive. The bullpen is stronger with the addition of Stanton, and the rotation is great 1-2-3, 4-5 is suspect with Trachsel 4th and either Bacik or Strange filling out 5th. The Mets have serious holes at short and third, but anything is an improvement offensively over Ordonez. Hopefully the Mets will acquire a third baseman or pray that Wigginton continues his hot streak he displayed at the end of last season.
- Arpikarhu - 02-03-2003
valentine is an Asshole, but steve phillips is totally to blame. he picks up mo who hasnt doen shit except be injured and fat for 2 years and expects him to be a superstar. the glavine signing shows me he may finally be getting it. still not as good as the yanks though! :bouncer:
- Goatweed - 02-03-2003
It's easy to blame Valentine because he's not there - period. For whatever reason, the players themselves seem to not want to accept the fact that they sucked last year. I'm not Mets fan, but it was obvious that Valentine had to go - but what was more obvious is that Philips should've been right behind him but that didn't happen for whatever reason. Again, on paper the Mets have a competitive team this year - whether that comes to fruition is up to the players (personally, i don't see it happening).
- Keyser Soze - 02-03-2003
i also think howe will be a calming presence in a clubhouse that was a circus last year. if he can keep the wild young oakland A's in line, he should be able to do the same with a group of mainly vets who have already acknowledged their high praise and respect for the new manager.
- PeterDragon - 02-03-2003
Teen, I know you listen to Wally & Keeg, and they made same comment - that it has been "pick on Valentine" parade.
Arpi, I don't know why you say Valentine is an Asshole, but the guy
a) knows baseball
b) gives time to the community
Steve Phillips does neither. Valentine has made some of his own trouble, but he was far from being the problem. As much as I respect Bobby V, I can't blame team for replacing him. What has troubled me is that Steve Phillips stayed. I think he has done a poor job assembling this team, and last year showed that you can't assemble a rotisserie team without considering how the parts would fit together. Phillips spent too much time in the clubhouse for a GM, and all of this Bobby Bashing smells like it somehow comes from him.
As for Howe, I think Willie Randolph would have been better, and I get nervous as to why A's were so anxious to let him go, but I don't think he'll be a problem. I hope you're right Keyser, or it'll be a long season for me.
- LyricalGomez - 02-03-2003
God I hate Baseball
Why can't you make Football a year round sport?
- Teenweek - 02-03-2003
peter, it was a good topic and there are a lot of mets fans on this board so thats why I posted it. I agree that valentine is blamed for practically everything. He can be blamed for the war with iraq, the economy, the cold weather. If they keep this attitude they will be out of the playoffs again.
- PeterDragon - 02-04-2003
I wasn't blaming you for the topic, teen.
I'll watch my vitriol next time.
;-)
It's just it brings up bad feelings
Steve Phillips is the anti-christ.
Edited By PeterDragon on 1044330162
- Keyser Soze - 02-04-2003
i like bobby valentine, i like how he speaks his mind, the players seem to hate him tho.
- JimmyBlueEyes - 02-04-2003
I was kind of surprised to see that Valentine got the boot but Philips stayed. I am not surprised to see a fat lazy fuck like Vaughn blame Valentine for his problems. What I wasn't suprised to see was all these players come out and say they wouldn't have come here if Valentine was still managing. It's no secret there are a lot of players out there that hate Valentine. Ha ha thought I was gonna say surprise. Let's hope that this year is a little better and Trachsel finally produces. They need a little more help in the bullpen and pray that they can find someone better for short and 3rd. Anyone know if they are still talking to that Muller guy??
- PeterDragon - 02-04-2003
Quote:i like bobby valentine, i like how he speaks his mindI like that, and that he comes out early, signs plenty of autographs for kids, got involved in 9-11, is intelligent, and yes, actually knows baseball. He was even good enough to be a major leaguer with a lot of promis before his injury, unlike Phillips, who never made it to "The Show", and seems to be living vicariously through his players".
His biggest problem is when he knows something others don't, he lets them know it. Some people aren't secure enough for that. Remember how he told Hundley that he wasn't getting enough sleep? Well, guess what - Hundley has never been the same player since he left. Bernard Gilkey had a problem with Valentine? - well, what has he done lately. Valentine was on record as saying Ishiro would be a great player.
Contrast this with Phillips, who gave away Isringhausen (for Billy Taylor!)and Terrance Long (Kenny Rogers) to the A's, Traded Carl Everett for John Hudek, Traded Melvin Mora & Mike Kinkaid for a couple of months of Mike Bordick who was horrible, Traded Bubba Trammell for Donne Wall, Decided Todd Zeile would be a good first baseman, Traded Kevin Appier (an effective pitcher who Phillips signed for too much money) for Mo Vaughn (who hadn't played in over a year, had a bad contract, couldn't bend over to field, and blocked a possible Mike Piazza to first base move), Picked up Burnitz and his horrible contract, Traded Gary Mathews Jr to Balt for John Bale (who?), put Pete Walker on waivers (who pitched well for Toronto), overpaid Rey Ordonez which kept him here way too long, and treated Edgardo Alfonzo horribly. Not to mention the Alex Rodriguez (I don't even need to talk to him) fiasco.
Art Howe might do ok, but it doesn't excuse Phillips. Or Wilpon who chose Phillips over Omar Minaya, who not only signed Sammy Sosa & Juan Gonzalez (i believe) when he was a scout, but was able to pull off the Colon deal last year.
Fire Steve Phillips
And Jimmy, Bill Mueller, who would have fit in as a part timer at 3rd, signed with BoSox
Mets gotta look long term. Next year Mike Lowell will be free agent, as well as Troy Glaus (I think), and other big timers. Don't need to compound mistakes this year. I'll put up with Wigginton.
- JimmyBlueEyes - 02-04-2003
I'm with ya Peter, Fonzie got fucked. Zeile to first was a bad move. Philips should go bye bye.
- Sir O - 02-06-2003
Agreeing with just about everyone here, I'm still pissed that Bobby Valentine is gone. Plain and simple, he was a scapegoat. Steve Phillips is the real cancer, and needs to go now. The problem with Valentine - as has been said - is that he isn't a politician. He doesn't put things in words that are meant to appease the fragile egos of baseball players and the media - he is blunt and to the point, and isn't afraid to hurt someone's feelings - or maybe he just doesn't care if he does.
And on Glavine - I'm still very skeptical. I hope I'm wrong on this, but I think he's fading fast and won't be the #1 starter fans seem to think he'll be. His second half numbers from last year aren't pretty, and it's not like he had a huge workload or was battling through injury or anything like that. I think he'll have a decent year - ERA in the low to mid 3's, 17+ wins depending on how the offense clicks - I just don't see him as an ace. And IF the Mets make the playoffs, at his age, how will he perform?
- HedCold - 02-07-2003
i didn't think it was valentines fault, but i do think his time was up here and he just had to go. sometimes that happens with certain coaches who have a style like his.
and yea phillips sucks
- diceisgod - 02-07-2003
The Mets.... :lol:
- Keyser Soze - 02-07-2003
Watching the Yanks get clowned by the Diamondbacks and Angels........ :lol: