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+--- Thread: Moneyball (/showthread.php?tid=7431)
- Keyser Soze - 09-21-2003
So I finally go around to reading Moneyball, The Art Of Winning At An Unfair game on the flight into San Antonio. The book is supposed to be about Billy Beane and how he is able to keep the A's in the top tier of baseball despite having one of the lowest payrolls. The book kind of ventures in several directions though, talking in length about Bill James, reknowned baseball analyst and writer as players and agents in Oakland's organization.
I found it interesting how the A's are basically run from the top down, the manager having little to no say in how the organization is run. Howe was basically a figurehead, causing me to question his value to the Mets.
One of the passages that made me chuckle was the story of a player who got his one and only at bat due to the regular player complaining that his hemmoroids were bothering him.
Has anyone else read this book?
- HollywoodJewMoses - 09-21-2003
me
- The Jays - 09-21-2003
Nah, can you post some of the ideas that they implement in order to maintain the high quality of play that they put forth?
I've read Bill James most recent baseball historical abstract, which is a fun read. When he's not sucking Craig Biggio's dick, he lists the top 100 ever at each position, goes into the history of the sport decade by decade, and details the concept of Win Shares, which is a way of rating a player in terms of his ability to contribute to the winning of a team, which could be a method of figuring ROTY and MVP.
- Keyser Soze - 09-21-2003
The Athletics basically rely on players with "warts". These are players that do certain things well but have a trait or shortcoming that makes them unattractive to most clubs that can afford more well rounded players. They're obsessed with OBP, hitters with patience, who can draw walks. They can't compete with the big market clubs that can pay a premium for star players in their prime so instead they take on guys like Scott Hatteberg who rarely strike out and get quality at bats.
The A's picked Scott up off the MLB scrap heap of discarded players. He's a perfect example of how the A's are able to be creative to stay competitive. Scott had to rehab himself after a nerve ruptured in his arm which forced him to undergo intensive therapy to teach his hand to hold a baseball again. Now he's regarded as an above-average first baseman converted from catcher.
The book is chock full of stories like this. Its a quick paced, interesting read if you're a baseball geek like myself.
- Splatterpunk - 09-21-2003
Keyser is articulate.
I'm aroused.
- Galt - 09-21-2003
use the search function next time, tool.
- PeterDragon - 09-23-2003
Im currently reading it
(when Im not screwing around at work).
Yeah, it is a good read; even the beginning where Beane has this epiphany since the typical scout thought he was a great prospect,and he kinda knew he wasnt.
More than just relying on players with warts, I thought they were trying to go by "facts" (as in the world of James), instead of just opinions. There are a lot of standard baseball opinions that really have no basis in fact. They try to do away with that.
Yeah, it (so far) paints Beane as a total contrarian, not wanting to do anything that a regular scout would want to do - like his hatred of High Schoolers.
As for Howe, I never thought he was a particularly good manager, certainly no better than Valentine. The fact that Beane describes Howe as someone who does whatever the GM wants, and that Phillips hired him, doesnt look good.
FWIW, Jim Duquette is a kinda compromise - he values some of the Bill James ideas, but isnt as beholden to them as Beane.
- Keyser Soze - 09-23-2003
yeah i neglected a major point of the book which is, beane doesnt rely on the instincts of his scouts, he lives and dies on stats. he doesnt care what a scout THINKS a player might do someday, beane is only concered on what a player has proven he can already do.
- HedCold - 09-23-2003
isn't this the 2nd or 3rd thread you started on this book?
- Galt - 09-23-2003
Galt Wrote:use the search function next time, tool.
Quote:isn't this the 2nd or 3rd thread you started on this book?
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- Keyser Soze - 09-23-2003
geeks!
- Galt - 07-12-2004
I waited until the paperback came out.
I had no idea that Michael Lewis wrote it. He wrote Liar's Poker which is a big Wall St. book.
It's funny that Joe Morgan still thinks that Billy Beane wrote Moneyball.
- Keyser Soze - 07-12-2004
Joe Morgan needs a haircut. I was watching him in the booth last time ESPN had a game on and his afro puffs were unkemptly sticking out of one sideburn and not the other.
- Galt - 07-12-2004
Morgan and Miller are unwatchable.
The only people who don't suck totally when announcing games are Jerry Remy and Sean McDonough
- Keyser Soze - 07-12-2004
At least once a broadcast, he says something that I think flies in the face of CW (without justifying his position on why it should be done differently), and he is constantly a jerk to Miller.
- The Jays - 07-13-2004
Galt Wrote:Morgan and Miller are unwatchable.good thing they show a baseball game on the screen instead, I guess
- Bloody Anus - 07-13-2004
They get more on-camera time than any announcers ever should. At least 5 times a fucking game the camera is on them for no apparent reason.
But the worst announcers have to be Seattle's, Dave Henderson and some old guy that only wakes up in the 8th if Boone or Edgar homers. I can't watch more than 2 innings at a time without dozing off. They go literally from the time the batter steps in to the time the ball is in play without saying a word. It's just unwatchable.
- Bloody Anus - 07-13-2004
As for Billy Beane, this is why Oakland will never win in October, period. And why Anaheim is the best team in the AL.
Cle 2, Oak 1, Top 8th:
-B. Wickman relieved C. Lee
-J. Dye singled to left center
-E. Byrnes ran for J. Dye
-E. Durazo singled to second, E. Byrnes to second
-S. Hatteberg hit for E. Karros
-S. Hatteberg grounded into double play first to shortstop to pitcher, E. Byrnes to third, E. Durazo out at second
-B. Crosby struck out swinging
-End of Inning (0 Runs, 2 Hits, 0 Errors)