The wwa pay-per-view - Who??? read further...

[Gooch]

The WWA (World Wrestling Association) had their first pay-per-view last night, and it was a complete and utter mess. Blown spots abound, I watched people land of their necks and heads in a 4 way tag-team survival match of scrubs. The match of Sabu and Crowbar had some interesting moves, but marred by blown spots, and it was slow as molasses. Sabu is definately not the man he used to be. Eddy Guerrero looked good, and after his match, got into a tussle with WWF's newly released Jerry Lynn. Prob the best mike work of the evening. It is a shame that Jerry Lynn never got the opportunity to do his stuff with Van Dam in the WWF ranks. Brett Hart, the commish of the WWA came out to tell folks that Randy "Macho Man" Savage would not be there, and picked Brian Christopher to go against the champ, Jeff Jarrett, in his place. Brian Christopher??? Then Brett proceeded to ramble on for ten minutes about Osama, Canada winning the gold...and muttering about the bell still ringing and would someone please answer the phone. Hardcore Midgets...that's right folks, hardcore midgets fought at this pay-per-view, and unlike the other wrestlers, actually hit their spots. Steiner came out and threw both the midgets, at the end of their match, out of the ring like frisbees. He then proceeded to beat the hell out of Disco Inferno. Steiner looks in good shape, and looks ready for the WWF. I, never a real Steiner fan, was impressed. Kronic fought some scrubs and looked awful doing so. Larry Zybisko came out, and proceeded to bash Vinny Mac and said Jericho is too short to be undisputed champ. Obviously, Larry takes exception at Jericho calling himself the "Living Legend". Brian Christopher vs. Jarrett wasn't bad, but Jarrett made that match work by being the heat machine that he is.

The show itself was a nightmare of production issues. Blown camera shots were constant. The camera work was simply awful, and not even to the ECW production values. They only filled half the arena, and ran screen on the other side. This half-arena only filled by about 1/3 into the show, which makes one wonder if they just gave out seats. The WWA need TV time and a consistent schedule to make it work. They have potential...but need alot of improvement on every end.

[Skitchr4u]

gooch, is it worth paying for the replay tomorrow night? or should i just pray that i can get it for free? i heard that nova fought, was he at least the highlight reel that he always was?

[Spitfire]

got into a tussle with WWF's newly released Jerry Lynn

:pissed: Wow, can't tell you how pissed I am that he's not in the WWF anymore!!! Here I was patiently waiting for his return, and the high quality matches he was gonna have with RVD again :disappointed: :disappointed:

I guess the WWF will never lose that idea that the bigger you are, the better wrestler you must be, right Sir O? :angry:



Edited By Spitfire on Feb. 25 2002 at 09:51

[Gooch]

gooch, is it worth paying for the replay tomorrow night? or should i just pray that i can get it for free? i heard that nova fought, was he at least the highlight reel that he always was?

Nova's match was that 4-way tag match that had us watching it shuddering at every high risk move, b/c they were landing on thier heads and necks. We really thought that there was going to be a neck injury. Marmaluke and Shark-boy...besides being gimmick-awful, were the worst offenders. Chris Daniels wasn't bad. Nova was pretty good...but the match was so horrendous that I'd just suggest jerking to porn instead until 9pm's RAW for tonight and forget the replay.


Spit: I'm with you on that Jerry Lynn. He would have made a decent mid-carder and possible a great feud with RVD. Once he got injured, during the roster glut, no less, it was pretty clear he'd never have a shot. Thing about WWA, at least he can get work and showcase, just like Eddy Guerrero's doing...and I'm sure the WWF is watching. Prob with WWA, is they truly need a weekly show, like on USA. Ted Turner's nashing his teeth to get back into the wrestling biz...and I wouldn't be surprised if the WWA eventually got bought or at least got a moneyline from him to get that TV slot.

[Faceman]

Gooch, the ppv last night was their second one. They had one last month that precluded me from watching this one because it was so bad it was fucking frightening. So basically they have had 2 ppv so far...one headlined by jarrett vs. Christopher and the first one headlined by jarrett vs. roaddog. I bailed after the first one. If you would have seen it, you would have too :moonie:

[Spitfire]

damn, I should have taken the invite last night to watch this at a friend's...it would have been worth it just to see Lynn and Nova wrestle..and Sabu back in the ring after XPW, which is just too brutal for me...

I wouldn't mind if they had a tv show, at least there would be a little competition...and it's nice to see some other (younger) guys get a chance

[Sean Cold]

it was utter shit. I missed the Main event cuz of OZ but it is a total toss up on which was a bigger waste of time. I watched the replay though and I have to say that this was the most piss poor ppv I have ever seen. Shark Boy? Ugggggh, miserable shit. Larry Zybisco's rant on Vinnie Mac was just a boring, self indulged shit fest that went about five minutes too long. He actually said that 100 million viewers were going to see that ppv. I want what he smoked because that has to be good shit. Brett Hart is a fuckin asshole for having the audacity of likening Canada winning the gold medal to America catching Bin Laden. That was a cheap pop that even Foley would have skipped. Sabu had more rust then an 85 Buick left in the weather with no cover at all. Grand Master sexay in the main event? No, sorry but Jerry's kid just doesn't cut the fuckin mustard. Scotty Stiener obviously worked on his arms during his lay off but he seemed to forget to do a few sit ups and Earnest Miller actually looks more like an ass with hair. Kronic missed at least six spots and they actually made the Navajoe team look like world beaters at time. The match Goochie posted about was actually worse because it was a six man not 4. Do not waste your time or money on this shit fest. :disappointed: :disappointed: :disappointed:

ps(edit): WWA actually stands for World Wrestling AllStars.



Edited By Sean Cold on Feb. 25 2002 at 11:16

[GonzoStyle]

The midgets baby, the fuckin midgets are worth any price they charged for that PPV. Bloody fuckin midgets are always fuckin funny.

Scott Steiner looked like shit truthfully, they must not be paying him much with that fuckin lemon tree haircut. I was mostly looking forward to The Macho Man but looks like he may be WWF bound. I missed the main event only cause it looked horrible on paper and probably was worse as a match.

Sabu was another one I was looking forward too but it's not that he looked crappy it was his opponent. You don't put a wrestler the caliber of sabu in with fuckin crowbar.

Bret Hart really needs to either put on his gear or never get on the mic again. They talk about Foley goin for cheap pops, atleast foley never went for Bin Laden for a pop.

[Sir O]

got into a tussle with WWF's newly released Jerry Lynn

:pissed: Wow, can't tell you how pissed I am that he's not in the WWF anymore!!! Here I was patiently waiting for his return, and the high quality matches he was gonna have with RVD again :disappointed: :disappointed:

I guess the WWF will never lose that idea that the bigger you are, the better wrestler you must be, right Sir O? :angry:

Well, now I have to reply. :burnfucker:

WWF has alwas been a big man fed. Vince will always take the giant muscular slug over the smaller more athletic guy, until he's forced to make a change. Right now, he doesn't feel the need to change anything, which is why guys like Lynn get cut while Godfather makes his triumphant return on Raw. It's all he knows.

I just wonder what he'll do in a few years, if he's still in business then. 90% of the young indy stars are cruiserweights, so once his current roster has run its course, will he be forced to puch smaller guys to the top? I say, he'll just pump 'em full of roids til they either meet the requirements of his size fetish, or explode. At least for now, I'll get to see Jerry Lynn in some actual wrestling matches against guys like Lo-Ki, Eddy, and American Dragon, instead of jobbing to Albert on Jakked.

As for the PPV, what do you expect from a show run by a group of people with no experience, with announcing so bad they make JR and Jerry look good, god-awful production, a heavily papered crowd, a crippled Sabu, and Kronik?

First match was a mistake. Why run a six man elimination match when the cameramen, announcers, and fans alike can't keep up, and three of the most talented guys on the card are being wasted to put over Nova (I can't stand him, he's RVD lite)? I say ditch Shark Boy and Mamaluke, make it a straight tag between the other four, and keep Nova out of the way as much as possible. I'm sick of these cute little gimmick 3, 4, and 6 way matches, and Ki, Styles, and Daniels are too good for that.

Speaking of 3 ways, Eddy vs. Psychosis, one on one, would have been much better booking. Or better yet, let Juvi take on Psychosis and put Eddy in the main against Jarrett, and leave BC at home.

Bret Hart has no reason to ever be involved in wrestling again.

Crowbar is a fine worker, but dragging a good match out of Sabu is nearly impossible these days.

Steiner/Cat vs. Lane/Idol was like a bad thunder match. What makes them think anyone wants to pay to see that now, when they didn't watch it for free then? Ditto Kronik.

I'm leaving out a whole lot, but that's the gist of it. And as doomed for failure as the WWA is, it's still not as bad as XWF. :burnfucker: :burnfucker: :burnfucker:

[Sean Cold]

WWF has alwas been a big man fed. Vince will always take the giant muscular slug over the smaller more athletic guy, until he's forced to make a change.

This is your only point I disagree with. Y2J has been champ for a good run now and Larry Legend actually attacked Vinny Mac about this last night.

They also pushed Brett Hart for the title when he was nothing more than a tag wrestler. And, does Shawn Micheals ring a bell?

anyone?

anyone?

Buhler?

Buhler?

[GonzoStyle]

does Shawn Micheals ring a bell?

anyone?

anyone?

Buhler?

Buhler?

Black porno guy with a big cock!!!

[Sir O]

anyone?

anyone?

Buhler?

Buhler?

Nope, just me again.

I didn't mean Vince would never push a big man as champ. What I meant was (or what I mean now is...) that big men in the WWF are portrayed as more dominant, and given many more chances, than little guys overall.

How else to explain Billy Gunn's repeated attempts at a main event push?

How else to explain Big Show, Diesel, Kane, and Sid all holding WWF championships?

How else to explain why Jamie Knoble, Kaz Hayashi, Shannon Moore, Alan Funk, Elix Skipper, and Jason Jett all come over in the WCW purchase, but Buff Bagwell gets the first tv match?

Etc, etc...

Simple fact is, Jericho may be WWF champion, but he's been portrayed thus far as being weaker than every oppenent he's defended against. Once Hunter's through with him, it's gonna be right back to the mid cards and feuds with RVD and Kane. And that's even with him wrestling with lifts in his boots and doing more "strength conditioning" than he ever did before joining the fed.

As for pushing Bret and Shawn, what else was he going to do? Diesel and Sid both failed as champs, Luger's push failed miserably, Hogan was out, Macho was semi-retired, and they really didn't have much else at the time. Basically, especially in Bret's case, they were a last resort for a struggling company. Certainly not his first options.

And remember, if Big Show and his million dollar contract wasn't such a worthless failure, he'd probably be champ right now. Unfortunately, it wasn't apparent to Vince just how awful he was, until after he had the belt.

[Gooch]

You know, a bunch of us were discussing the current state of WWF, WWA, etc...and were thinking about the impending roster splits...and we realized it would be a great idea for the WWF to ressurrect the ECW name and run it as a WWF subsiderery. (if they can grab it b/c right now it's still in litigation) You put Heyman back in charge, control the overhead, use the WWF marketing and internal production mechanics for them, and you put those on the roster that don't make the WCW or WWF, but are too good for Ohio or Heartland, like Jerry Lynn, Nova, Chris Daniels, etc. You run the outfit like the ECW in style, but on a small scale...local places, not reaching for sky, and run just one 2 hour show a week which is the accumulation of material from 2 to 3 shows. And, you let the ECW run independently. No cross-sell, invasion, or any other bullshit.

You take the WCW, run the 2hour smackdown with it, and also grab a 1 hour show on weekends, running a pay-per-view once a month. The WWF takes RAW, and an hour show over weekend, and does the same. These pay-per-views fall two weeks of one another, and you drop the price of them to be $19.99 per (still gaining money, but also enticing viewers to buy both), and still charge the full Wresltmania price of $50 once a year for a World Series of sorts.

Ultimately, I think Vince should try to create a wrestling channel...and run old matches, new, etc...but he's so far up Viacom's ass, I'm not sure it's possible. But, if it's not...i think running WCW/WWF and recreating the ECW will be better than all this side-show crap. I do beleive in competition, but the WWA is just pure crap, and a resting place for WWF rejects, castoffs and wreslters in limbo...and that isn't productive.

[Faceman]

IWWF has alwas been a big man fed. Vince will always take the giant muscular slug over the smaller more athletic guy, until he's forced to make a change.

In the past the wwf was a big man's fed, per se. But now it's not and you still have guys like the Big Show, UT, Kane around. Look at your last couple of champions. Stone Cold, Rock, Angle, Jericho, HHH. The last big man champion was the big show and he did nothing, and I said nothing, as a champion. And before he got hurt Beniot was getting a hell of a push at the title against Austin and before that against The Rock. So the smaller guys get their push in the wwf, regardless of what anybody thinks.

I think the main problem with guys like Lynn and others mentioned in this thread is that the wwf is a different monster from any other federation. While ecw and, for the most part wcw, was wrestling driven the wwf is promo driven. If you can work the mic in the wwf you are golden. My example below proves this I think. It has always been my contention that The Hardy Boyz could be the biggest thing in wrestling if they didn't sound like a bunch of 10 year olds when you stick the mic in front of their face. The fans love them, they have the high flying moves needed to be stars but their promos suck, and I mean suck. and that's the main reason that when it came down to it, Edge and Christian got their tag team and singles push, because they can work the mic along with their wrestling ability. That's the intangible alot of those little guys don't have and it kills them in the wwf.

[GonzoStyle]

Main point now is wrestlers need either to appeal to the fans on the mic, as a character or they need some amazing in-ring skills. 10 years ago the Big Show would have been sucessful but not today with people like The Rock, Stone Cold, Angle, Booker T, The Mcmahons, HHH & Jericho who all have the look and are popular characters and possess super mic skills.

[Gooch]

yeah, true. there is a level of performance and acting that is now necessary to be a big star.