What is life?

[Galt]

There are six major characteristics of life, and it looks like she can't do three of them; so, in my opinion, she's half way dead. She's been half way dead for years. She's been on fucking machines.

I honestly have no clue what these magical six things are. I've been racking my brain for minutes here. Is this a biological thing, or more day to day activities? Are we talking about feeding yourself, washing yourself, walking, talking, breathing, and something else?

Is this a known thing that I should Google or some Jaysism?

That said the obscurity of what the hell he meant, got me thinking, where do you draw the line at what is life and when is it expendable?

What rights do fetuses have to life? At what point does that right move from 100% the mother's to 100% the infant's? Conception, birth, or someplace in between? It's pretty tough to be logical unless you pick one of the two endpoints. Everything else is just arbitrary.

What rights to convicts have to life? Do you you believe in capital punishment at all? (not from a "does it deter crime" standpoint, but from a "is it morally justifyable" standpoint) If you do believe in it, what's the line someone has to cross. Does have to be murder or would rapes, molestations, warrant capital punishment? Does it have to be a type of murder, more than one at a time, more than one time?

What rights to animals have to life? Are there certain species that have a greater right to life than others? (unless you are a real wacko you will say yes) How does that get decided? Is it all mamals? Do they have to be a certain size, cuteness, or ability to be domesticated? Is the determination of an animal's right to life dependant upon what will be done with the carcass after it's killed? If I hack a pig to death on my front lawn and leave it there, there might be some animal cruelty/whatever citations, but if I have a roast, no so much.

What rights to vegetables/burdens have to life? Who's decision is that to make? Does the person have to have explicitly said that they want to be offed for it to occur? Can loved ones make the decision for them, if the person hasn't made their opinion clear (and then what? majority rules of family members?) If the decision is to be made based on the logic of "the person is wasting money and it's pointless to keep them around", why can't an Insurance Company make that decision since their the ones that actually pay the costs?



Edited By Galt on 1111561025

[The Jays]

Theme #1 - Cells

All living things are composed of one or more cells. Different types of cells have different "jobs" within the organism. Each life form begins from one cell, which then will split. These cells split, and so on. After this has happened several times, differentiation is undergone, when the cells change so that they are not the same thing anymore. Then they are used to begin to put together the final organism, some cells, for example, as the eyes, some as the heart, etc. The only arguable exception to this is viruses. They are not composed of cells, but are said to be "living."

Theme#2 - Organization

Complex organization patterns are found in all living organisms. They arrange themselves on very small levels, grouping like things together. On larger levels, they become visible. This also has to do with differentiation, as the cells are organized in a manner that makes sense for the organism after they change to what they’ll be in the final organism.

Theme#3 - Energy Use

All organisms use energy. The sum of the chemical energy they use is called metabolism. This energy is used to carry out everything they do. Autotrophs (plants) use energy from the sun for photosynthesis, to make their own ‘food’ (glucose). Heterotrophs (animals and humans) must ingest food for this purpose.

Theme#4 - Homeostasis

All organisms have stable internal conditions which must be maintained in order to remain alive. These include temperature, water content, heartbeat, and other such things. In a way, this has to do with energy use, because a certain level of energy must be kept within the body at all times. For this, obviously, humans must then ingest food on a regular basis. Not all conditions are for the body to maintain itself; though most are.

Theme#5 - Growth

All organisms grow and change. Cells divide to form new, identical cells. Differentiation happens, as well, when cells mutate into other types of cells, making a more complex organism. Organisms growing, changing, and becoming more complex is called development. Single-celled organisms do grow as well, but they will only become slightly larger – this is nearly unmeasurable.

Theme#6 - Reproduction

All organisms reproduce in order to continue the species' life. This is combining genetic information (in sexual reproduction) or splitting into two organisms (in asexual reproduction) in order to create another of the same species. In sexual reproduction, the new organism will have some characteristics from the mother, and some from father. It may look like either of them, or it may not. In asexual reproduction, the new organism is an exact copy of the first. Sometimes, not every member of a species is able to reproduce. As long as others are (which we know they can, if they still exist today) then it does not threaten the species. (Except for mules, but don't worry about them, they are a bizarre anomoly.)

What is life?
I.
Six characteristics
a. Cells
a.
All living things are composed of one or more cells.
b.
Different types of cells have different "jobs" within the organism.
c.
The only arguable exception to this is viruses. They are not
composed of cells, but are said to be "living."
b. Organization
a.
Complex organization patterns are found in all living organisms.
c. Homeostasis
a.
All organisms have stable internal conditions which must be
maintained in order to remain alive.
b.
These include temperature, water content, heartbeat, and other
such things. In a way, this has to do with energy use, because a
certain level of energy must be kept within the body at all times.
d. Growth
e. Reproduction
a.
All organisms reproduce in order to continue the species' life.
b.
This is combining genetic information (in sexual reproduction)
or splitting into two organisms (in asexual reproduction) in order to
create another of the same species..
f. Energy Use
a.
The sum of the chemical energy-metabolism
b.
Autotrophs use energy to reduce carbon dioxide to organic
carbon
1.
Photosynthesis by plants and phytoplankton with energy
from the sun
2.
Chemosynthesis using chemical reactions that release
energy
a.
Example: Ocean vent communities where colorless
sulfur bacteria use sulfur
c.
Heterotrophs require organic matter to grow
d.
If there is air, aerobic respiration makes the most energy
e.
Anaerobic respiration occurs where there is no air
1. Very important, as by product is methane, an important
greenhouse gas
2. Autotrophic methane production- CO
2
+ 4H
2
- CH
4
+ 2H
2
O
a. Example: mud flats where H2 concentrations
high
3. Heterotropic methane production- CH
3
COOH- CH
4
+ CO
2
a.
Example: bacteria in cow guts, fermentation
4. Sources of methane in modern climate: cow farts, rice
paddies, landfills, natural gas production

[Galt]

and so which three of those can't she do? That is life of cells, and her cells are still living/dying/being created.

[diceisgod]

When I see pictures of terri schiavo sitting in her chair and just staring, it reminds me of me sitting here reading this messageboard.

[Buttmunch]

Yeah, but, she's no armymad.

[diceisgod]

i'd throw myself under a bus to save him

[Goatweed]

I really dont see what the problem is - how is it that her own family, flesh & blood, are not able to dictate what happens to her (live or die) ? It's her fuckin' family, let them deal with her.

[MyTimelessSpirit]

It should be here family to decide and no one else. I can understand taking her off of machines, other than a feeding tube as everyone needs food to survive, because if machines are the only thing keeping her alive than she is pretty much gone already. But if she is able to live and breath on her own with the feeding tube then the family will just have to deal with her living in the state she is in. She will die when she is ready.

[Mad]

Bring her a tray of food at all meal times, if she can feed herself, good. If not, oh well...

[OAS]

We put to much thought into what constitutes life. To me it is simple. Breathing, heartbeat, functioning brain that keeps the body doing what it needs to do. All of this on it's own. If you need an umbilical cord or a machine to make any of this work 100%, you are not alive. Pull the power to the machine and if you keep breathing your brain tells your body to function and your heart beats, you are alive. Cut the umbilical cord and the same thing. If you require food and water to sustain life as long as your brain allows your body to physically consume the food fine. A baby knows to naturally suck a nipple placed into it's mouth after it is born. We don't train the baby to learn how to suck the nipple, it comes naturally. Placing a tube down our throat to feed us is not natural. If the brain does not know how to consume the food, your dead.

[Keyser Soze]

what if one is injured and needs to be rehabilitated in order to perform these functions?

[fbd]

so a coma is dead?

[OAS]

Rehab is fine. Spoon feeding a person that has been injured until they heal still suggests they are alive. Tube feeding a responsive person still suggests they are alive. If they cant talk, hear or speak but they can blink once for yes or teice for no, they are alive.

[Keyser Soze]

then terry schiavo is not dead

[OAS]

She hasn't blinked in 15 years. Her parents say she responds, but doctors don't see it.

[Keyser Soze]

I guess you havent seen the videos. Shes quite responsive. I've seen them and futhermore...

From New York Times, March 23...

"This poor woman and this poor family are being used as a political football, and these guys will do anything to push the point that they think is so important, that they will invade this family's privacy," he said in an interview. He singled out Dr. Weldon, saying, "This is a guy who's lost track of who he is."

Dr. Weldon defended himself, saying in an interview that his request to examine Ms. Schiavo grew out of a conversation one of his aides had with her husband's brother. But he also sounded conflicted and said he did not expect to get a response.

"For me to examine her is a double-edged sword," Dr. Weldon said. "It's mixing politics and medicine. While it would be very helpful to me, I'm not sure how it would play out in a case like this."

There are 12 medical doctors, 3 dentists, and 3 nurses in Congress, and most did not publicly invoke their medical experience during the Schiavo debate. Among them was Senator Tom Coburn, Republican of Oklahoma and a family practice doctor, who said in an interview, "I don't think you have to examine her. All you have to do is look at her on TV. Any doctor with any conscience can look at her and know that she does not have a terminal disease and know that she has some function."

[OAS]

I don't pay attention to the unsolicited opinions to news organizations. Videos, opinions etc are shown to us via the media to further an agenda. In the courts, under oath, testimony by doctors and experts treating her say she is in a vegitative state and she is non-responsive. There has not been one doctor familiar with her case, familiar being they examined her, tested her and physicaly were at her bedside, that feels she will recover or respond. Her parents under testimony say they believe she is responsive because they can feel it. She isn't blinking, squeezing their hands, smiling or anything else. She is unable to sustain continued life nor will she rehabilitate. She is dead with the exception of a heartbeat.

[Keyser Soze]

Are you implying they are using doctored videos?

[OAS]

What date was the video filmed?

[MyTimelessSpirit]

We put to much thought into what constitutes life. To me it is simple. Breathing, heartbeat, functioning brain that keeps the body doing what it needs to do. All of this on it's own. If you need an umbilical cord or a machine to make any of this work 100%, you are not alive. Pull the power to the machine and if you keep breathing your brain tells your body to function and your heart beats, you are alive. Cut the umbilical cord and the same thing. If you require food and water to sustain life as long as your brain allows your body to physically consume the food fine. A baby knows to naturally suck a nipple placed into it's mouth after it is born. We don't train the baby to learn how to suck the nipple, it comes naturally. Placing a tube down our throat to feed us is not natural. If the brain does not know how to consume the food, your dead.

So what you are saying is that no one should ever be assisted with feeding themselves?

That would mean a lot of the living now would have been dead long ago.

What about a premature baby or a stroke patient that has their mind but not their body. Should we just sit there and watch them die without lifting a finger?

I don't think so.