Allow an old man to vent for a minute - The ramblings of a patriotic old fart.

[Keyser Soze]

If I could I would. It would put a great burden on my loved ones.

[Arthur Dent]

The fact is, our post-Vietnam generation has never been tested. Every other generation born in the last century has had to face some trial. WWI and II, Korea, Vietnam, the Cold War, the Great Depression...

I've always believed you don't know what your capable of or what you really stand for untill your tested. When it comes to patriotism, 9/11 was the first real test this generation has really faced. The Cold War died when we were just kids and the Gulf War was essentially a televised video game to everybody but the people on the ground there. We've never faced a draft or had to decide wether or not to defy the cops and get arrested at a protest.

Peace breeds complacency. We are not facing an enemy where we can draft a big army and ship out to fight. This isn't an enemy where we can gear up our industry and work harder to produce material for the fight. All we can do is "get back to normal". Well, for most people, being uncaring and blasey about this country is normal.

It's simple human nature that you care more for what you shed blood for. I don't think there's a person on this board who doesn't appreciate what our men and women in uniform have done throughout the last century and continue to do today.

But don't think that ceremony and oaths are the same as patriotism or that the lack of one means the lack of the other. When called on once, this generation rose up and was ready to contribute and do something. The nature of this enemy did not allow any more than a show of support, donations, and civil volunteer work. I fully believe that this generation can and will respond with the same dedication shown by generations past when called on again.

[PollyannaFlower46]

If I could I would. It would put a great burden on my loved ones.

They won't let me join, I tried to join a few times a few years ago and then again right after 9/11 figuring they'd be less picky...

[Maynard]

Here's something to think about. Honestly, the pledge of allegiance SHOULD mean alot more to kids, but again, it doesn't. They are never fully informed and educated about what it means. When you're a 16 yr old kid in your morning class, you'd rather stare at the girls boobs next to you than think about the pledge. If they're not going to educate them on what it means, then why bother? We need more education on that matter. SHOW YOUR FUCKING PATRIOTISM. You dont have to wear the colors. But when it's a moment for that specifically, you can respect it. You don't even have to say the words. Just stop looking at those boobs for a minute and think about freedom. Freedom to even look at those boobs exposed instead of being covered up by heavy garments like in so many other countries.


Something I have a much bigger problem with is the Star Spangled Banner. How many of you actually know all the words? How many of you actually stop when you hear it and listen, or better yet sing? Ever since I was a kid (and still to this day), when I hear the SSB, I sing. I go to fucking baseball games, BASEBALL! yeah, Americas pastime, and only hear a few people in my section singing. WTF is that about? People talk during it. People just ignore that fact that it's on at all. And if they are silent, they are thinking about their next beer, not about showing pride in our nation.

Wake up people. There's little things you can do to show your patriotism. You don't need to run around wearing the flag, but you could respect the few moments that you're expected to.

[OAS]

Doc your young fart patriotic views are applauded.

Patriotism isn't just saying words, nor did I ever suggest it was. It is as Doc explained it so well before. Questioning the motives of our leaders and challenging them when they are heading down the wrong path is welcomed and encouraged. Remember above all else, we are a nation "of the people, by the people and for the people". In 226 years we have made mistakes. flbdwhatever, believe me, you don't need to remind me about assasinations of leaders. What you don't know and what CNN wouldn't tell you is why those leaders (term used loosely) needed to be eliminated. If Ford hadn't buckled to pressure of outside interests, we may not be having some of the problems we are having today.

And the pledge. It is not the meaningless words. If you do not swear true allegiance to the nation, don’t say it. When you take the oath in a courtroom are they just words to you? Will you just say them because the judge says you must, and then you proceed to lie in court? They’re just meaningless words you are asked to repeat right?

[Arthur Dent]

And if they are silent, they are thinking about their next beer, not about showing pride in our nation.

WARNING! WARNING! MAYNARD IS PSYCHIC! WARNING! WARNING!

[PollyannaFlower46]

I don't sing out loud, but that's because I can't hit the notes, I mouth the words... When I went to the games this weekend, I noticed that Friday and Sunday nights when I sat in the stands, no one cared about the SSB, but Saturday in the bleachers, everyone turned, faced the flag, and sang....

[Doc]

At least have the friggin decency to take your hat off during the National Anthem. I know means dick in the grand scheme of things, but I jsut find it absolutley classless and disrespectful not take your starter cap off during the Star Spangled Banner because you have to look cool.

OK, I'm done now. I will now return to making one line replies

[fbd]

And the pledge. It is not the meaningless words. If you do not swear true allegiance to the nation, don’t say it. When you take the oath in a courtroom are they just words to you? Will you just say them because the judge says you must, and then you proceed to lie in court? They’re just meaningless words you are asked to repeat right?

once again, you're corrupting what i said.i say the pledge of meaningless words, but i do pledge true allegiance.its not the words that i say that cause me to pledge, but the respect i have for our country.i've had those words beaten into me all my life, and they now mean nothing to me, but i do believe in the spirit of the words, the meaning behind them.wether or not the pledge ever existed would have no effect on me whatsoever, since my loyalty to my country is from what i've learned, studied, and seen in history and in my life.if i have to go to court, i would tell the truth, because a)the law should be served, and people shouldnt have to swear, and b)i havent been saying that one thing almost every day of my life

[The Sleeper]

When you take the oath in a courtroom are they just words to you? Will you just say them because the judge says you must, and then you proceed to lie in court? They’re just meaningless words you are asked to repeat right?

Speaking of which, why is congress eliminating the "Under god" part of the pledge of allegiance but noone says a peep about the bible and god being used in your oath in court. Maybe I'm being naive, but isn't that a complete violation of separation of church and state?

[OAS]

Speaking of which, why is congress eliminating the "Under god" part of the pledge of allegiance but noone says a peep about the bible and god being used in your oath in court. Maybe I'm being naive, but isn't that a complete violation of separation of church and state?

If I recall, you do have an option to take a non religious oath without placing your hand on a bible. In fact most courts do not require the hand on the bible anymore, just raising your right hand and you can request the non "so help me God" version.

[PollyannaFlower46]

I testified in court recently, and there was no bible, I just raised my right hand and they didn't say so help you god.

[The Sleeper]

ok, I only know about court from movies and such. Thanks for clarifying.

[Brokenjaw]

Are they now going to take the "In God We Trust" off of all U.S. Curency?

[OAS]

Are they now going to take the "In God We Trust" off of all U.S. Curency?

I heard on MSNBC the other night as part of the pledge story that there is a suit pending in some district court on the money issue also.

[The Sleeper]

The easiest way to get around the whole currency issue is to eliminate it all together and adopt a barter system like in the middle ages. Who's with me?

[Maynard]

I'd rather just use my mac/credit card for everything.

[Ken'sPen]

I am ALL for removing references to god from all aspects of government...
it doesn't belong, and I think the bible thumping right will agree with that.
Especially if the minority demigraphics continue to change.
I don't know how people would feel if some counties\states changed swearing in to "so help me Allah" etc.

[Keyser Soze]

ken, feel free to send me all your "in god we trust" currency since you are so opposed to it.

[Brokenjaw]

Ok, now I have heard it all. What the fuck is the big deal about the wrod God anyway. I was rasied catholic but do not practice anymore. But jesus mother fuckin christ on a pony, I am not offended by the word god, or any other word for that matter. Correct me if I am wrong(everyone else does), in all of these other religions, they have a god,right? Weather it be Ala, Mobby, what ever, it is still there god? The American Indians have their spirits, and gods, Greek mythology has all sorts of gods, GOD is just word, I would think that if there really was a god, he/she would not really care what they were called as long as you believed in some sort of god. I am not sure if I am making any sense here, but it sounded reall good like in my head.



Edited By Brokenjaw on July 01 2002 at 4:22