This week's Tough Enough - Bob Holly opened a can of whoop ass

[Teenweek]

This past week on Tough Enough they had the old trainers wrestle the remaining kids. Chavo and Al Snow were on one side vs Bill Demott and Bob Holly on the other with 2 Tough ENough guys on each team. Bob holly got in the ring and beat the living shit out of this guy Matt. He slapped his chest repeatedly hard, where welts and bacl and blues were visible. The main thing was he kicked him the face about 3 times, making his mouth bleed and get a black eye where it was almost shut. Matt shook his hand after the match showing Bob Holly respect.

I think Bob Holly is an Asshole. The whole series they are telling the kids, you have to trust the person you are in the ring with because they have your life in their hands and vice versa. What Holly did was totally uncalled for. He acted like a fucking bully, that's about it. The funny thing, this Matt guy looks like he could take care of himself but he was trying to sell Holly's shots, so I guess that's why he did not fight back.

I read a few things on 1popup.com where it was mentioned that Bob Holly pulled this shit on Brock Lesnar too because he was a rookie. I am glad Angle broke his arm in a match and I hope something else happens to him too because what he did was totally uncalled for. It will probably be on MTV all week again, I don't know the times. I know it is on 9:30 next thursday before the new tough enough but am sure there are plenty of other times. It is worth watching if you did not see it.

[PatCooper]

I think you missed the point to the ass kicking though. They were showing the kids that this shit does happen in the ring from time to time. And that you cant take it to heart.Bill Demont told matt that it was a right of passage. He also told him that now your looked at as "one of us".

[LyricalGomez]

Remember the few times went Saturn went mental on some poor rookie live in the ring? They want to avoid shit like that by showing them the worst case senario now, in a controlled environment. You will get hurt in wrestling, bottom line, but you have to learn to deal with it, Matt dealt with it the right way, he may have wanted to beat the shit out of Bob, but he shook his hand, because he knew he had to swallow his pride.

I was unsure about Matt up until this week, now I think he might wind up winning, as long as they don't pick the dumb cunt I'll be happy.

[Teenweek]

They were showing the kids that this shit does happen in the ring from time to time.

Things happen when people make mistakes, like RVD. What Holly did was intentional. Like I said you are suppossed to trust who you are in the ring with. From what I read from other wrestlers on wwe.com, droz said Holly went over the line and tazz said holly may have gone to far, but Matt may have positioned himself to win because he took it like a pro.

I know wrestling is tough and you have to go through a Hell of a lot but kicking the kid in the face twice and the kid is not fighting back because he is trying to earn your respect makes Holly an Asshole.

[PatCooper]

I think it shows them that there are scumbag wrestlers out there that might try to do this to them at some point and time. And the right way to handle it is with respect. Cause it's part of the business like it or not.

[Teenweek]

This is from Dave Scherer from 1 wrestling.com. Cut and pasted to avoid everyone from the annoying popups of linking it.

BOB HOLLY SHOWS HE IS A REAL LIFE CLUELESS PUTZ

by Dave Scherer Updated: 1/11/2003 12:04:59 PM


Back in the days of ECW, Stevie Richards played a character that was called a "clueless putz" by announcer Joey Styles. As the name suggested, Richards was pretty much of a nimrod who was annoying and didn't have any real grasp of reality. As it turns out, WWE also has one of those characters on their roster. The sad part is, Bob Holly isn't playing any kind of role. In reality, he is just an angry, nasty, egotistical, arrogant man who has obviously aged, but never grown up. Always one to walk the WWE locker rooms expounding on what a real life tough guy he is, Holly went on WWE's Tough Enough III this past week on MTV and showed that the maturation process that envelops most adults as they leave their teenage days behind has been completely lost on him. You see, Bob Holly is the classical high school bully, the one who picks on the smaller, weaker, less worldly kids because he knows that they will never fight back. It feeds his ego and makes him believe he is the tough guy he likes to present himself as. This past Thursday, Bob Holly showed his true character to the nation and what they saw wasn't at all pretty, and it certainly didn't reflect well on WWE.

WWE.com has an interview online with Bob Holly that was done yesterday morning. In it, he talks about the beating he laid on Tough Enough contestant Matt on this week's episode. If you were expecting a remorseful response, you will be disappointed. In verbiage that is typical of why people on sports teams haze their younger, greener counterparts, Holly said this. "As far as Tough Enough III goes, I've never seen a bigger bunch of crybabies in all my life. I'm serious. Matt gets on there and says I disrespected him? I don't have to respect somebody I don't know (and have never been in the ring with). He was crying over a black eye and bruises on his chest from when I chopped him. This isn't ballet. People are going to get black eyes and busted lips. I don't know how many times I've had those in my career."

Of course, what Holly fails to mentions is that the shots he has taken in his career were errant blows (and in some cases retaliation for him working too stiff and/or not selling another guy's work). What he did to Matt was the product of an agenda he had. He obviously decided that he would go into the ring and pound the snot out of the kid. That became pretty clear when WWE.com quoted him as saying, "They made a mockery about what I did on Tough Enough III. They should be embarrassed. I'm not sorry for what I did. I don't regret what I did. (When) Bob Holly is coming; I'm coming to be Bob Holly. I'm not going to change for anybody."

That's so impressive Bob. So when a kid expects you to come into the ring and work a match with him, and protect him (just as he has been taught), you know you have an unsuspecting rube and you pound the crap out of him. Wonderful.

Perhaps the funniest thing, in a sad, "this guy is so deluded" kind of way, was when he said, " The only thing I do is hurt people's pride. I don't hurt people physically. I just hurt their pride." Some people are really just too stupid to live, and Bob Holly has shown that he can be their leader.

So, in the end, I can't see how anyone can make a case for what Holly did. He was completely and totally wrong, and no one can convince me otherwise. I fully understand that some people in the business may want to defend what Holly did as being "old school". You see, coming up in many wrestling dojos around the country, the trainer often beat the snot out of the student. Some legitimately believed, misguidedly in my opinion, that it was a necessary part of a wrestler's training to have the tar beaten out of him, for no perceptible reason. Other trainers were simply sadists who liked to beat up the young guys who were paying them. Whatever their reason, the fact of the matter is that the wrestling business is a tough one, and it will teach its young all of the hard lessons, and then some, at points along the way. The practice of mauling young students is antiquated and has no place in the business today. It doesn't "teach" anything other than there are nasty, bitter people in the business and you know what? The aspiring students will learn that, without getting mugged, soon enough.

About the only positive that came out of this for Matt was that he "gained the respect" of the others by taking the beating and then shaking Holly's hand afterward. If that was me, I would have probably been in the hospital because I would have spit in his face instead. Yes, I would have known that it would have ended my dream of becoming a wrestler but by that point I would have realized that if being in wrestling meant dealing with people like Bob Holly, it's something I would want no part of anyway. That's the way to teach Bob.

[LyricalGomez]

I take back what I said after reading his interview, I thought he did it to see the reaction to an unexpected situation, instead you get someone who calls him a crybaby and someone who should'nt be in the buisness. I'm starting to wonder if Holly is just a bitter, old man who is pissed off that he never got the kind of exposure these kids are getting.

[Sir O]

Remember the few times went Saturn went mental on some poor rookie live in the ring?

I only know of one incedent involving Saturn, which was the match against Mike Bell on Jakked a while back. I have that on tape somewhere, and from what I remember, the kid was basically not cooperating with Perry and seemed to be trying to show him up/make him look bad. It doesn't excuse his actions really, but it's not like he wasn't provoked.

Regarding Tough Enough, I didn't see it, but I imagine I'd rather take a beat down from Holly than wind up alone in the shower with Bradshaw...

[PatCooper]

So, in the end, I can't see how anyone can make a case for what Holly did. He was completely and totally wrong, and no one can convince me otherwise. I fully understand that some people in the business may want to defend what Holly did as being "old school". You see, coming up in many wrestling dojos around the country, the trainer often beat the snot out of the student. Some legitimately believed, misguidedly in my opinion, that it was a necessary part of a wrestler's training to have the tar beaten out of him, for no perceptible reason. Other trainers were simply sadists who liked to beat up the young guys who were paying them. Whatever their reason, the fact of the matter is that the wrestling business is a tough one, and it will teach its young all of the hard lessons, and then some, at points along the way. The practice of mauling young students is antiquated and has no place in the business today. It doesn't "teach" anything other than there are nasty, bitter people in the business and you know what? The aspiring students will learn that, without getting mugged, soon enough.

Stu Hart's dungeon was also a training ground for some of the best in the business. He would render kids unconscious and make them scream in pain until he released the hold. Im sure this happens in every wrestling school around the country.

[Sir O]

BOB HOLLY SHOWS HE IS A REAL LIFE CLUELESS PUTZ

by Dave Scherer

Pot, meet Kettle.

Im sure this happens in every wrestling school around the country.

Worse things happen.

Wrestling's school of hard knocks
Berkeley man's kin sue over his death

Chip Johnson Monday, September 23, 2002



Brian Ong was a youthful guy with an unrealistic fantasy to become a professional wrestler.

It seems absurd that a 5-foot-8, 175-pound man would seek his fortunes in an industry dominated by giants, but that's what Ong signed up for at a "boot camp" at All Pro Wrestling in Hayward last year.

Ong's fantasy ended in May 2001, not with a "bump" -- an industry term for a staged fall -- but with an all-too-real thud when he fell from the shoulders of a man about 7 feet tall and more than twice his weight.

The 24-year-old Berkeley man died in an ambulance while being transported to St. Rose Hospital.

His case came to light last week when attorneys for Ong issued news releases about his family's lawsuit against the training school, alleging negligence and fraud.

The damages suit, filed in Alameda County Superior Court, challenges the liability waiver Ong signed and alleges numerous causes of actions, including failure to provide adequate safety precautions for the workouts.

Ong wore no headgear or other protective equipment, and there were no mats to cushion a fall, Nancy Hersh, the attorney representing the Ong family, said.

News stories about Ong's death and the suit are an attempt to try his case in the media, said Robert Forni, an attorney representing school owner Roland Alexander, who would not comment.

But put the lawsuit aside, and you still have a dead man who chased a distant fantasy and paid for it every step of the way.

Even if his family loses in court, perhaps Ong's death will help turn inquiring eyes on the recruiting tactics, tuition costs and safety at Alexander's school.

Aspiring wrestlers at the school are asked to pay $6,000 for an intensive, 4- to 5-monthlong training course.

The school provides discounts for students who pay all or half the tuition up front and for those who join with a friend. For those without the cash, the school offers a financing plan, with interest rates as high as 82 percent, court documents allege.

The tuition at All Pro Wrestling, despite the school's claim to the contrary, is more than twice as much as students pay at some of dozens of similar schools around the country, including camps run by former professional wrestlers.

All Pro Wrestling's Web site also claims that "amateur wrestling makes for great cardio and toughens you up in the ring."

Real wrestling is a great workout, and I did it in high school, but my coach never told me that getting tossed on my head strengthened my heart.

In one of the drills at All Pro's Boot Camp, students spring from the ropes,

somersault and hit their backs -- bam! -- in the middle of the ring.

The Hayward warehouse where it takes place is filled with loud groans, as bodies slam onto the mat, then bounce back up, only to drop again.

But if it's cardiopulmonary conditioning you want, rather than chiropractic,

how about a good aerobics class that costs a lot less than $6,000?

The world of professional wrestling came clean about its shtick before a federal panel in 1989, admitting that it was a rehearsed, staged performance where none of the players was actually trying to hurt their opponents.

The admission freed the entertainment companies from the costs of meeting regulations imposed by state athletic agencies. Like most other states, California deregulated wrestling the same year.

All Pro Wrestling opened a year later, and has produced a few wrestlers who've received tryouts with the WWE, or World Wrestling Entertainment Inc., the major league of the professional wrestling circuit.

But most of the wannabe pros have simply gotten the crap beat out of them for the sheer enjoyment of it.

"The people I look for are the ones who love pro wrestling," Alexander said in 1999. "Because either you love it or you're crazy."

His students must also be devoted, he said.

"There are no shortcuts to anything in life," Alexander said. "If you want to be a doctor, it takes time and study and years in school. If you want to be a baseball player, you've got to be dedicated and work your way up through the minor leagues. It's the same thing here."

Not really. Minor-league baseball players get paid.

Still, Alexander added: "Pro wrestling is a complex sport, a complex art form."

Ong's demise was anything but artful, according to the lawsuit. He suffered a concussion two months before his death but was never advised to seek medical treatment, the suit claims. In fact, he was still wobbly from a tough fall he took just minutes before he died, Hersh said.

When he hit the floor the last time, he began vomiting, lost consciousness and never recovered.

All this for a so-called sport involving a bunch of large actors in spandex?

The resurgence of popular wrestling has captured the minds of nostalgic parents and impressionable youths to the tune of 200 events and 2 million fans annually.

World Wrestling Entertainment, formerly known as WWF or the World Wrestling Federation, claims 13 percent of the Internet traffic among users between the ages of 12 and 34.

The notion of self-regulation in the world of professional wrestling seems about as distant as Ong's chances of carving out a professional wrestling career.

Perhaps shedding some light on his death will persuade elected officials to put a reverse suplex on the industry and require some sort of public accountability.

[GonzoStyle]

Bullshit Holly had every right to do what he did. That shit happens more than we may think in the ring.

Read foley or hogans book.

Austin, foley, and countless others who made it paid massive dues. Years some as long as 15 years of wrestling 25 dollar matches and getting the life beat out of them, for a shot at the WWF. These kids are getting the chance of a lifetime.

Stu Hart's dungeon was a palace of horrors. Remember the bret hart special? The crying, the screaming, the begging in that dungeon is unimaginable. The first time hogan stepped into a ring to train his trainer broke his leg.

The people in the business are very protective of it and hate kids who go trough a couple months of training and get in. More so that they complain about training that wasn't a tenth as hard as what they went through.

What holly did is unthinkable maybe to the people who don't realize the true essence of the business. It may be enetertainment but sometimes this shit happens. What if he gets in the ring with someone who wants to break his neck someday because he felt he got the easy ride into the business?

[Teenweek]

Gonzo, Holly is an Asshole though. He no sold to Brock Lesnar and I think Lesnar dropped him on his head for it. And the reason this gets so much attention is he did it on tv. I know there are a lot of priclks in the business. I have watched all 3 tough enough's and this one has definitely had it the toughest from what they showed.

I know all about Stu Hart's dungeon and how people have waited years to get to the WWE and many not making it. But this is a tv show created by the WWE. Yeah they are very lucky and should be happy for what they have. All Bob Holly did prove was their are assholes and stupid pricks in the business. If you watch the show, the main thing they preach when teaching all the moves is you have to trust who you are in the ring with.

Why didn't Holly mention after, that in the business you will find people who will do this to you. You guys have it easy, etc. When interviewed he sounded like a jerk. If he explained what you are saying, there would have been much less of a problem, than I am going to kick his ass for real and I really don't give a shit. WWE is the pinnacle of wrestling and they are heroes and role models to millions of people. This is not some rinky dink gym where people don't give a fuck about you. So whatever the WWE does is held to a higher standard than other wrestling programs.

[GonzoStyle]

I agree holly is a dick without a doubt, he thinks he is a main event superstar when he barely holds his own in dark matches.

Still I don't think it is such a big deal, its only a big deal cause people saw it on TV. Nixon wasn't the first president to tape conversations but it was a shock since he was the first one caught.

[Sir O]

WWE is the pinnacle of wrestling and they are heroes and role models to millions of people.

If I had a weak stomach, this sentence would have made me vomit. So, SO wrong.

Holly's a dick. So what? You think the wrestling business attracts choirboys? With some exceptions, wrestling is tailor made for dumb roided out muscleheads who like to beat people up. Geez...maybe someone could start a promotion full of nice guys and do gooders. But who the fuck would want to see that? Even though the WWE is pussified wrestling, most of these guys were trained elsewhere, where people are trained to work as stiff as possible without causing injury. Holly included. He didn't injure the guy - a black eye and a bloody lip (or whatever happened, I didn't see it) is just another day in the life of a wrestler. Then they take their Somas and their HGH and go on to the next venue. Really, on the list of what could be considered morally "wrong" in wrestling, Bob Holly roughing up a trainee doesn't even chart. Hell, Tom Zenk, Marty Jannetty, and Tom Billington have told first hand some of the stuff that went down in WWF locker rooms in the 80's - stuff that makes Bob Holly look like a saint in comparison.

[Sir O]

Thread on Holly and TE from Wrestling Classics

Good discussion, both sides of the story are presented. Blue Meanie, Paul Bearer, Dave Meltzer, and others check in.

[GonzoStyle]

Sir O understands me.

Back in the day most any wrestler woulda done 100x more damage to these kids, especially live on TV. Bloody lip nothing, they'd bust them whole, take an eye out if they had to.

The point is what holly did will probably happen to these kids on a regular basis. Don't forget these people wrestle hundreds of shows that are never aired on TV. Thats where shit goes down that you won't hear about. That's when wrestlers might get carried away or hold a grudge against these kids, that they took 10 years to make it to a mid-card and some punk got in after a couple months of "training".

[Sir O]

Sir O understands me.

Then I've succeeded where everyone else has failed.

Motherfuckers train to be wrestlers and expect ballet, wtf?...

[LyricalGomez]

I know it happens, I know that people have to go through this, but Holly went in there to hurt him plain and simple, he didn't want to teach a lesson, he didn't want to show him to expect this type of treatment, he wanted to hurt the kid and get his name in the spotlight albeit shortly.

[GonzoStyle]

Then I've succeeded where everyone else has failed.

You mean no one understands me? :-(

[JimmyBlueEyes]

I've got two words for Bob Holly....Spark Plugg....Yes he is a dick, yes he has no mic skills, yes he is a washed up has been trying to be cool. He was also trying to prove a point. A point that was made here by a few of you. He was trying to prove that there are going to be some people who will go into that ring, trust or not, and try to fuck up your career. I am not surprised if a lot of these tough enough contestants face a shit load of resentment from the guys who went to the schools and paid their dues for years in the indie circuits. So they take a bit of a beating...it's probably gonna be worse later on.