Home | Search | FAQ
Page
1
2
Displaying 26-43 of 43 messages in this thread. |
| Posted By | Discussion Topic: F.U. Bill Maher and his politically shit show | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Redhead Lover | posted on 03-02-2002 @ 2:35 PM |    | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 02  | quote: I absolutely agree with you, Barch97. A public forum wasn't the appropriate place for this discussion, as it still affects many people, and obviously, I myself am guilty of failing to consider how others would react. But again, I'll stress that you shouldn't feel like you can't express your opinions. I was 100% sincere when I asked you to explain your opinions. Again, I'm not trying to be rude, I truly didn't understand where you were going. So I'll give you the opportunity to continue this discussion. I'm posting my email at the end of this post. Feel free to contact me there, and this way, we're not continuing this on a public forum. You can reach me at [email protected] "Weaselling is all part of human nature! Weaseling separates us from the animals... except the weasel" - Homer Simpson | ||||
| OAAWITE | posted on 03-02-2002 @ 2:41 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Jan. 70 | In regards to being sympathetic to people who might have lost loved ones, I never said these people were brave, or good, or supported them in any. No one here has, and I don't think that anyone reading any of our opinions would take it to mean that anyone is supporting the terrorists at all. Now.... Kamikaze doesn't mean "sneak attack on Pearl Harbor" in Japanese. You are clouding the issue. Kamikaze means that they would dive bomb into ships blowing up the ship and sacrificing their lives for it. They did this when they were in the war before Pearl Harbor was bombed. The issue is also being clouded by other suicides, workplace murders, trenchcoat mafia, etc. My initial point still stands. These terrorists (the ones that knew what was going to happen) should be looked at as a military pilot. They were doing this for a religous war, and were going to after what they deemed as Satan. Like Kamikaze pilots, and an American military pilot who would crash into a military installation if he was going down anyway, their death was secondary, and main goal was to cause maximum damage to their enemy. If they were able to do so without dying they would have done that. Suicides, Trenchcoat mafia, workplace murders, are all done with the suicide first, and any other destruction after that is just gravy.  New Poster with a question? AIM me | ||||
| TheJays This status sponsored by: P®oJë©T M@¥h?m: I MAKE COOL PICTURES Proud To Be An American | posted on 03-02-2002 @ 3:10 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jan. 01 | Does it really matter if you like em or hate him? Why do you fucking care about what someone on TV thinks? The reason he tries to make these outrageous and radical statements is so that the other 4 people discuss it. If he just went ahead and said, "yeah those terrosists are cowards, aint they?" how fucking boring would the show be? Mahr takes different stances on different topics in order to get us to look at our own points of view and actually think for once. And stop trying to understand what goes through these terrorists and Islamic fundamentalist's heads. WE can never truely understand them, they can never truely understand us, just know that they are evil and our archenemy. Fo shizza my nizza, is it ok to say nizza?  | ||||
| IkeaBoy P.L.F. Portugese Liberation Front- Liberating Status' everywhere from the Tyranny of Portugal I will die a traitor's death | posted on 03-02-2002 @ 4:23 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Sep. 00 | quote:You're misunderstanding. There's a difference between dying for your beliefs in a 'war' which is what the terrorists did AND upset because you were picked on in high school so you decided to get even.  "It appears my wee wee has been strucken with rigor mortis." | ||||
| barch97 BBTB The barch gots lots a dick I kind of enjoy my anonymity on the board WOW Forum Ambassador | posted on 03-02-2002 @ 6:28 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Jul. 00 | Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that anyone had said anything offensive (yet). I just forsee this getting to the point where it's unavoidable. We all obviously feel quite passionately about our opinions on this matter.  Long Live the "Syndication Underground" | ||||
| IkeaBoy P.L.F. Portugese Liberation Front- Liberating Status' everywhere from the Tyranny of Portugal I will die a traitor's death | posted on 03-02-2002 @ 7:01 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Sep. 00 | why do we have to stop every discussion once it gets emotional. Let us fucking argue, shut up. "It appears my wee wee has been strucken with rigor mortis." | ||||
| barch97 BBTB The barch gots lots a dick I kind of enjoy my anonymity on the board WOW Forum Ambassador | posted on 03-02-2002 @ 7:17 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Jul. 00 | I didn't asy that anyone else had to stop. Go ahead and argue. I'm finding this quite entertaining and enlightening. Please continue. Long Live the "Syndication Underground" | ||||
| MINDLESS | posted on 03-03-2002 @ 5:45 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Feb. 02 | wow! This has gotten way crazy. There have been so many good points by everyone here but I was originally pissed at Dickhead Mahr because he was saying that Letterman and John Stewart were cowards for crying and showing emotions on the air about the attack. I think Shit Mahr is and has always been a self-righteous prick and he needs a serious beating. I do agree that everyone should be allowed to voice thier opinions, but he is one of those bone-smokers who thinks that only HE should be allowed and that only HIS opinion matters. In My opinion ( which is what I've been using this whole time ) suicide is most definitely a cowardly act, unless there is some mental illness involved. Kamikaze pilots were'nt commiting suicide, and neither were the terrorists. Those were acts of sacrifice, whether I agree with their reasons or not, they were not suicides. If some asshole can't deal with his life and he slits his wrists or takes some pills or Cobains himself, that is suicide and that is cowardly. If your life is sooooooooo fucking bad then change it dick! Don't go splattering your brains on your mom's favorite tapestry, start over---change your name if you have to, move somewhere else and just start it all over, killing yourself just for the sake of not being able to deal with something is so cowardly it's almost humorous. ----I AM MORE FUN THAN PIE---- When do the French leave? are you okay? do you need help? FUCK-YOU! | ||||
| Redhead Lover | posted on 03-03-2002 @ 6:54 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 02 | quote: Okay, I'm going to have to admit defeat in this area. I started out by thinking that suicide is suicide, no matter what the reason. however, I can see what you're all saying. There is a diffence between suffering from depression and becoming a religious martyr. That said, I still have to stick to my guns and say the terrorists are cowards. IMHO, bravery is facing an opponent who can fight back, not sneaking on an airplane and killing unarmed innocents. Of course, this gets back to being brave often is not smart. If you want to look at the terrorist attacks without considering the tragedy or morals for a moment, while I cannot call them "brave" acts, I can call them "effective". The terrorists accomplished what they set out to do, something that would not have happened if they fought our military in a battlefield. So I'll try to wrap up my arguments with this thought. Maybe the reason we can't agree is simply because terrorism is something that can't be explained rationally. Maybe it's inaccurate to label terrorists as "cowards", because their minds are so clouded with madness, it's impossible to be able to label them using sane terms and ideals. Does anyone understand why Charles Manson killed a pregnant woman and her family, or should we just accept that madmen like Manson and the terrorists can never be understood by a sane person's way of thinking. But to get back to the issue that started this all, I still think Bill Maher sucks sour frog ass... ;) "Weaselling is all part of human nature! Weaseling separates us from the animals... except the weasel" - Homer Simpson | ||||
| barch97 BBTB The barch gots lots a dick I kind of enjoy my anonymity on the board WOW Forum Ambassador | posted on 03-03-2002 @ 9:02 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Jul. 00 | I think I've finally come up with an anolgy that comes close to explaining the point I've been trying to make: You're getting your ass kicked by a guy that's 3 times your size. Do you try to fight back farely only punching above the belt in a civilized manner and continue to be beaten to a pulp praying that he will be merciful enough to let you live and not anally rape you a third time? Or, do you kick him in the groin and run as fast as you can as far away as you can? Long Live the "Syndication Underground" | ||||
| The Painter 1/2 a bottle of Jack Daniels... it's a cure-all | posted on 03-03-2002 @ 9:49 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Sep. 00 | Terrorist or Hero? Brave person or Coward? It all depends on which side you're on. Which side are you on? All the terrorist say they are willing to die for their cause. I think it was Patton that said: ( I'm paraphrasing here)" No one ever won a war dying for his country. You win a war by making the other poor bastard die for his country." KILL 'EM ALL. LET GOD SORT THEM OUT  I have walked through many lives Some of them my own And I am not who I was Though some principle of being abides From which I struggle not to stray This message was edited by The Painter on 3-3-02 @ 2:48 PM | ||||
| Redhead Lover | posted on 03-03-2002 @ 11:26 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 02 | quote: What do I do? I kick him in the groin. However, is kicking him in the groin a brave act? No. Is it a cowardly act? Yes. What I have done is taken measures to ensure I win, but that does not make me brave. Which leads me to my original point. There was nothing brave about what the terrorists did on September 11th. If you tell me that the terrorists resorted to cowardly means to ensure that their mission would be a success, I would agree with you 100%. If you told me that the terrorists were more tactical in doing what they did instead of fighting fair, I would agree with you 100%. But if you tell me thast the terrorists were brave for killing themselves along with their victims, then I disagree 100% Here is another analogy for you. Let's say my mind snaps (which some might say isn't much of a stretch). I decide that Iraq is going to launch a nuclear assault on the US. So I form a terrorist group. My group and I then boards an Iraqi plane, kills the unarmed passengers aboard, and crashes the plane into Baghdad, killing Saddem Hussein, as well as many innocent Iraqi citizens. Is that a brave act of mine? Absolutely not. Is it a heroic act? Absolutely not. It is a cowardly sneak attack caused by irrational fanaticism. If I joined the military and risked my life on a battlefield while trying to capture Hussein, that would be brave. My issue isn't with implying that the terrorists were clever, I just don't understand why people insist they were brave... "Weaselling is all part of human nature! Weaseling separates us from the animals... except the weasel" - Homer Simpson | ||||
| barch97 BBTB The barch gots lots a dick I kind of enjoy my anonymity on the board WOW Forum Ambassador | posted on 03-03-2002 @ 11:39 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Jul. 00 | See the trouble is I'm trying to break this down into it's fundamental pieces and you keep trying to discuss every point all at once. I think you got the analogy I was making but, that's all I was trying to say. That is similar to the completely out matched situation that they are in. So, they resort to strategic terrorism. Yes, it's unfair. Yes, it's cowardly. Yes, you are right. Kicking someone in the balls is not an honorable thing. And, excuse my making light of the traggic events of sept. 11th but, that is pretty much what they did. And, by "they" I mean all of them. The nation of Afganistan. The Al Quida network. The Taliban. Osama Bin Laden. The "terrorists". But, then there are the individuals that were on the plains. Yes, they are part of the "terrorists" and, therefore participated in a cowardly strike against an otherwise undefeatable foe. But, as individuals... what they did is to sacrifice their individual lives for the greater good of what they believe in. And, again I appologize if anyone is offended by this. I just don't know how else to effectively communicate my opions here. btw... I am not sure how any of us, myself included, can be so passionately arguing points that we really don't know all that much about. I'm not saying any of us are stupid or uninformed. Just that all we know is what we've seen on the news. And, all we see on the news is what they want us to see. And, all they get to show us is what the government allows then to show us. Yes we have freedom of press but, there are limits. And, I'm sure anyone of you that has ever been in a possision to know more about an event than is broadcast on the news or in a news paper will agree. They fuck up A LOT. It's very infrequent that they get facts correct. Usually it's something small and insignificant but, other times... Well, am I only one that remembers when Joe DiMagio died the first time? Long Live the "Syndication Underground" | ||||
| Redhead Lover | posted on 03-04-2002 @ 4:37 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 02 | quote: This is where you and I just don't see eye to eye. I do understand the analogy you made, and the overall point that playing fair can sometimes guarantee failure. But my problem with your analogy is that you talk about a victim who REACTS to the ACTIONS of a bully. What were the terrorists REACTING to on September 11th? This is what I don't understand. What sins did America commit that led up to the terrorist attacks? Not only were we not bullying Afghanistan, we were providing food and healthcare for them! AMerica constantly offers aid to these countries, and then, after gobbling up everything we offer them, they kick us in the nuts. If you're trying to say that America was bullying the terrorists so they had to strike back, you'll have to provide me with some examples, because I truly don't know of any. There's also the argument that these militant Islamic groups view America as "Satan". Again, why would a religious group choose to hate and attack one of the few countries in the world that embraces religious diversity? In an earlier post, you asked why I'm so "Pro-US and anti-everyone else". In all honesty, I don't always agree with everything the US does. Granted, I'm going back a few years, but I thought it was absolutely reprehensible when George Bush senior did absolutely nothing to prevent the merciless slaughter of the Chinese students in Tenimen Square. True, some might argue we didn't have to right to march into China and interfere, but we certainly should have severed our ties with that particular Chinese government, and when George Bush later call that government our "friends", I truly wanted to puke. If you want to be technical, the terrorists were the bullies and we fought back. On September 11th, they performed an unprovoked attack, and we REACTED by chasing them into Afghanistan. Now, if after the Taliban was run out of Kabul, if the Marines had turned around and slaughtered all the Afghanistan people who lived there, would I have supported that? Of course not! Which brings me to my original point: Nothing ever justifies attacks on innocent people. "Weaselling is all part of human nature! Weaseling separates us from the animals... except the weasel" - Homer Simpson | ||||
| barch97 BBTB The barch gots lots a dick I kind of enjoy my anonymity on the board WOW Forum Ambassador | posted on 03-04-2002 @ 9:30 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Jul. 00 | OK, I think we've finally narrowed this down to what we actually disagree on. Was the attack on sept. 11th provoked? Obviously you don't think so. And, on the surface you'd be correct. It's not like we were at war and exchanging blow for blow attacks on each other. But, to say the attack was unprovoked... well, I just think that's a little arrogant and naive. As others have expressed previously in this thread, they really don't like us very much. That may be difficult for some to grasp because the values of our society justify our way of life. At the same time they directly contradict the values of a lot of other societies. For me go get into specifics here would make this yet another long-winded speech that I don't think anyone cares to read. So, I hope you can accept that there are people in this world that don't agree that our way is the best way. The thing that bothers me the most about our involvement in that region prior to September 11th is this arrogance. We insist that our way is not the best way; it's the only way. Which brings me to the might makes right statement that you asked for clarification on. Well, of course our way is the only way. If you disagree we'll kill you. So, there is no opportunity for any other culture to survive. This is a culture that has thrived in that region for thousands of years. How long has our's been in place no less working well? We can't keep our own people from blowing up our buildings and we're going to presume that we know what's best for someone else? In much the same way that we look at them and think "how can they treat women that way? It's downright barbaric." They look at us with confusion, ignorance, and disgust. Does any of this justify the action they took? Absolutely NOT. But, was it unprovoked? I don't think that one can be answered quite as easily. The attacks against US were severely brutal and deliberate. Have we attacked them in any similar fashion? Not that I know about. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened and, I'm not saying it has. But, again... how much do we really know about what our government is doing right here at home let alone over there? Long Live the "Syndication Underground" | ||||
| Redhead Lover | posted on 03-04-2002 @ 12:35 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 02 | quote: You're right, this is exactly where you and I just don't see eye to eye. I view the Sept. 11th attacks as an action while you're viewing it as a reaction. quote: I agree with you that many other cultures do look down at "westernization". One classic example of this was displayed on a pre-September Opie and Anthony show when Opie was talking about his vacation in Turkey, and he said that after seeing how the women are oppressed there, he never wants to hear again that the O and A show degrades women. However, ask an Arabic man about this, and he would say that the way America prominently displays female nudity is disgusting. However, I'm not sure where you're getting that most Americans feel our way is the best ways. Sure, there are racists and skinhead freaks, but I find the majority of American citizens are very open to other cultures. quote: This is where I absolutely disagree with you. America is a nation that was founded on religious diversity. Can you honestly name one other country that has as much religious or cultural diversity as we do? If you want to get technical, the terrorists were only able to get into the country to pull off the Sept. 11th attacks because we are so open to who we let in. I have absolutely no trouble understanding that other cultures like the Middle East have a much different value system. But my problem is why do they have to keep trying to kill us for not sharing their beliefs? This is an awfully big world, and I think there's more than enough room for all cultures and religions. If the militant Islamics hate all Christians and Jews, that's their problem, but why do they think they have the right to kill us because of our beliefs. quote: I think you raise a valid point. We don't know for certain what's happened in other parts of the world. But before I'm ready to accept that terrorism is a REACTION to something we've done, I need some conclusive proof. As you say, the media is not always accurate. However, as anxious at the world news sources are for the next big story, I think if we really performed some awful act, it would have been exposed long before now. One last point, I think this ongoing debate we're having is a great example of how tolerant American culture is. I'm glad we have the freedom of speech to say how we feel, without fear of reprecutions. Not many other countries get to enjoy that freedom. "Weaselling is all part of human nature! Weaseling separates us from the animals... except the weasel" - Homer Simpson | ||||
| Cap'n Fudge | posted on 03-04-2002 @ 12:50 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | I think we can all agree that terrorists are bad. Using a civilian airliner as a guided missle is pure evil. But one simple fact remains...dead people can't argue syntax. The problem is that courage and bravery are associated with heroic acts, while the same acts for the side of evil are refered to as cowardly. I think that evil isn't cowardly, but instead just plain evil with little or no regard to any of the mores of any society. Let's not classify the truely evil within our cultural biases. Let's treat them like the bizarre aliens they are. They should be locked up and studied so we can determine what planet we should send them back to. BTW, in person, Bill Maher has the largest head I've ever seen. I hate this job! I hate this goddamn job and I don't need it!!!  [email protected] Screw Edison and his light bulb! | ||||
| Sir Okonkwo | posted on 03-04-2002 @ 4:57 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | quote:Take a step back for a second, and try to understand the mentality of the terrorists. They've been brainwashed by their society for their whole lives into believing that their way of life is the only "right" one, and that any person, group of people, society, or government that does not subscribe to their way of life is a threat to their very existence. Their only purpose in life, as they see it as taught to them by their leaders, is to preserve this way of life and to gain a prominent spot next to Allah in the afterlife. Preservation of this way of life means to attempt to destroy their enemies, and number one on that list is the United States and it's capitalist system. We're not the only enemy, just the most prominent. They were reacting to the threat of capitalism and athiesm and the Great Satan infiltrating and destroying their culture and archaic lifestyle, which in their eyes would be armageddon. Thus then, on September 11 when they managed to take 3000 lives armed with nothing but a few boxcutters, they viewed their actions as a continuation of the conflict between fundamental Islam and American commerce. It was not an initial action, it was a reaction to an "evil" that just by it's very existence is a deadly attack on them, and all that is holy and "right", and really in their eyes, the fate of mankind. I can't even begin to imagine what it's like to think that way, but I can understand how they think, and that they really don't know any better because it's been drilled into their heads their whole lives. Much like how people in America have been taught American values for their whole lives. It's really not as much a question as "right" or "wrong", because everyone's right in their own eyes. Nor is it a question of bravery or cowardace. I think what it all comes down to is, what is "good". Short of killing everyone who wears a towel on their head, we need to realize that people exist who hate us just because we are, and that we'll never really know victory until that thought process is put to an end. At this point, that means copious use of force, much more so than we've been using, because it's the only language they'll understand. Hopefully in all that rambling, you'll find something resembling a coherent thought.  FTL is not to blame for this abomination of a sig pic. | ||||
| Page
1
2
Displaying 26-43 of 43 messages in this thread. |