Quote:President's Statement on Terri Schiavo
The case of Terri Schiavo raises complex issues. Yet in instances like this one, where there are serious questions and substantial doubts, our society, our laws, and our courts should have a presumption in favor of life. Those who live at the mercy of others deserve our special care and concern. It should be our goal as a nation to build a culture of life, where all Americans are valued, welcomed, and protected - and that culture of life must extend to individuals with disabilities.
152 Executions as governor. Including a retard who he paid special attention to for all of 1/2 hour before denying clemency.
Terri Schiavo never killed anybody.
is this a hospice or auschwitz?
Did Terri get an invite to Patrick's birthday party?
i happen to agree with BM. starving her is not the way to go. its cruel and inhumane.
we only starve those we have sanctions on.
Her bulimia started all this.
She didn't even want to eat when her brain was functioning.
Quote:we only starve those we have sanctions on.
Sure we all noticed how Iraq, Iran and Cuba have fadded to skin and bones since we have been starving them.
Black Lazerus Wrote:Yeah if religious people were so religious then they wouldn't care about death because they are going to a better place anyway.
Which is why the only ones you ever hear from are the dumbass sheepish followers who live in total contradiction of themselves. True believers in the word of God probably realized that organized religion is stupid, and that they can have their own interpretation of morals and such.
OAS Wrote:Quote:Now, the other thing, someone please explain to me how exactly the Religious Right is "getting out of control" when the religious aspect of Easter is dropped? When the holiday, much like Xmas, started as the holiest of holy days to celebrate their Supreme Lord and Master becomes bastardized and celebrated for something completely different, and completely removes all mention of what the thing was started for initially?
Don't even get me started on this crap. The legend of Santa grew from the legend of Saint Nicholas. It has religious roots all around it. Yes it got commercialized to death in a major part due to television but so what? And give me a break with the fucking Easter Bunny. What is so wrong with creating a mythical tale about a bunny that celebrates spring? Easter has always been associated with the arrival of spring. Must we spend more time telling little children that the Jews turned against their own out of fear for their survival and drove the Romans to drive nails through the hands and feet of their savior and allowed him to die an agonizing death on the cross? I think children have plenty of time to grow up and learn the truth of their religion. In the mean time, I find nothing wrong with the tale of the Easter Bunny or other magical tales that excite the senses and imagination of children.
The Easter Bunny isn't a fascinating or interesting magical story. In fact, all you have to know about the Easter Bunny is right there in it's name. It's a fucking bunny that comes around during Easter, and parents blame this fucking bunny for leaving all sorts of candy (or SUVs, entertainment systems, and actual gifts for you rich people), and the kids could really give a shit about the bunny. And certianly, it's not much of a fucking bunny if it walks around on two legs and works in the mall. There is absolutely no explanation for how of why the Easter bunny leaves shit. I could buy the story that the Easter bunny shits jelly beans when it eats plastic grass, and that would solve why the fuck I leave baskets out.
Our society doesn't want religion in anything, including religious holidays. People don't want to be reminded that they are all sinners, and that they don't have time to go to church, or even believe in it.
Religion is too much of a burden. Seriously, if the Vatican did the right kind of marketing, they could like make a totally hip version of Catholicsm.
Quote:"Instead of worrying about my wife, who was granted her wishes by the state courts the past seven years, they should worry about the pedophiles killing young girls," Schiavo said, referring to a local case. "Why doesn't Congress worry about people not having health insurance? Or the budget? Let's talk about all the children who don't have homes."
i agree with him. but i still think his wife should live, or at the very least be allowed to die in a more humane way.
I always hated that argument. "Why not worry about XXXX, instead of my little issues". Yes, there are more important issues. Let's put 100% of our time to solving Cancer. And let's ignore everything else on the planet until that gets fixed.
A few points: Bush being gung-ho on the death penalty while wanting to save her life isn't contradictory. It's a pretty easy and consistent chain of logic: All life is precious blah blah blah. Everything should be done to protect anyone's life, even that of a life that hasn't been borne. If you kill someone, thereby taking their right to live, you lose yours. So people on death row should be murdered, terrorists who kill, people who support terrorists who kill, governments who support terrorists who kill -- all have forfeited their rights to live and should all be killed.
The "retard" who was executed was found competant to stand trial and therefore was not actually "retarded", so that argument doesn't hold water.
Quote:Terri Schiavo never killed anybody.
I don't give a shit whether they pull the plug or not. It's stupid ER meets Law and Order type stuff; the battle between who has the right to keep her on life support.
The problem I have is fucking government running around trying to look like fucking superheroes to save this chick's life. What the fuck is the federal government doing signing laws that only apply to one person???
Nest, we'll see a bill proposing that all vegatables have rights to life, a mandatory life support bill. Fucking religious fucking kooks. I'm so fucking tired of hearing about your fucking values, and your fucking prayers. Get that shit out of my fucking face, you fucking uncle fuckers.
It's no less convoluted logic than how the democrats want freedom for everything and responsiblity for nothing.
Well at least the Federal Courts still believe that just because the Bush Administration feels they can crank out individual laws, the law of the land as it applies to all still rules all. Of course now it moves on to the appeal process. It also amazes me the number of fanatics that have come from all over the country to hold prayer vigils outside of the hospice center.
I also have read some medical opinions that seem to point to the fact that starving this woman will be painless and peaceful. In her state, her senses will not know that she is starving. Somewhere in her mind she apparently isn't jonesen for a cheeseburger.
The point I think most of the "let her die" advocates are missing is that she COULD suffer.
This whole discussion by laymen (i.e. not doctors), stating that a portion of the so-called medical opinion (mostly unattributed) is of a view that she won't suffer, just plain and simply isn't enough.
If we don't know if she is capable of suffering, then we have an obligation to prevent her potential suffering.
I said it before, I'll say it again: if she is to be euthanized, then kill her quickly.
Letting her starve and dehydrate, while unable to know her potential suffering is murder.
Buttmunch, I applaud your passion about this issue. Knowing that you are a man of conviction, I can only respect your view. I to do not wish any further suffering for this woman or her family. It is a tragic situation that one would not wish on anyone. Unfortunately as a society, we are light years away from legal youth in Asia (props to Ali G for that one!). Kevorkian tried to push that issue and lost. If there ever was an argument for mercifully ending a life, this is it.
Seeing as the only legal avenue available to end this woman’s suffering and the suffering of her family is to stop feeding her, I support the wishes of her husband. In the end the religious fanatics should find peace in knowing she met her God. My Christian upbringing taught me that the journey to God is what we live here for anyways. If she is not going to accomplish anything else along her journey, then let her finally come to the end of the road.
I'm a believer in respecting someone's wishes regarding their life, care and death.
Having said that, I will say again, that this process is not a merciful ending of a life. She's being starved and dehydrated until she dies from the lack of ability to live.
I hold no religious beliefs. My position is not based upon a recognized moral stance. I just don't believe that in a society that will not execute a prisoner unless they pass a physical administered by a doctor a person such as Terri Shiavo should be left to die a death that I only wish they would apply to the aforementioned prisoner.
I also have my doubts about the veracity and sincerity of her husband. I'm sure you've heard the argument before, but, in the end, the only people you can really count on to look after your best interests in good times and bad, is your parents.
My take on the husband is he is sincere. Did Terri ever really say that she wouldn't want to be kept alive this way? We never will know. But if they had a productive and communicative relationship when she was healthy, I believe he could interpret what her wishes would have been. It would have been easier with a living will, but one doesn't exist. Even if one did I would suspect her parents would be fighting it in court. It is always harder for a parent to come to grips with a loss of a child than it is for a spouse.
If I were in her husbands shoes I would do the same thing. At some point you come to the conclusion that you cannot go on any further. You can't deal with the pain anymore. You don't want to see her like that anymore. You can't continue to pay the costs of keeping her alive in the technical sense. You have to weigh often the desire to place a pillow over her head and end it as mercifully as you can.