09-30-2005, 09:02 PM
Would you rather have someone be a DH or be a bad fielder? Mo Vaughn sucked ass in the field, and he won MVP. Sosa stinks to. Vlad Guererro isn't a good fielder either. He's got a great arm, but isn't a great fielder.
09-30-2005, 09:02 PM
09-30-2005, 09:33 PM
Mo Vaughn won the MVP with 39 home runs and 126 runs batted on for a team which won 86 games, beating out Albert Bell's 50 HR 126 rbis for his 100 win Indians. Just so happens, Mo Vaugn only played in 140 games, and played first for 138 of them, witn a .998 fielding percentage, and setting career fielding highs in put outs, assists, and DP for a season.
Sammy Sosa? Are you trying to compare David Ortiz this season to Sammy Sosa hitting 66 home runs and batting 158 rbis?
Vlad batted .337 last year, 39 hr, 126 rbi, 124 runs, 15 sb, and 366 tb.
Edited By The Jays on 1128116668
Sammy Sosa? Are you trying to compare David Ortiz this season to Sammy Sosa hitting 66 home runs and batting 158 rbis?
Vlad batted .337 last year, 39 hr, 126 rbi, 124 runs, 15 sb, and 366 tb.
Edited By The Jays on 1128116668
09-30-2005, 11:21 PM
Galt Wrote:Would you rather have someone be a DH or be a bad fielder? Mo Vaughn sucked ass in the field, and he won MVP. Sosa stinks to. Vlad Guererro isn't a good fielder either. He's got a great arm, but isn't a great fielder.Thats not the issue here though, the issue is you have two guys pretty equal on offense with ortiz at an advantage statistically. But also a guy who has a great glove who has the ability and has saved games on defense as well as offense. Where Ortiz doesn't get to do that cause he isn't in the field. Its not a case of a guy with a good bat vs a guy with a good glove. Its two guys with great bats and one guy with a good glove while the other warms the bench.
Sosa though not a great fielder you knew that without him the cubs wouldnt make the playoffs, which is why though Mcgwire had the bigger year coverage and history wise, sosa won. Sosa was the entire team, just as without Bonds the giants cant even get to .500 to win the division. The sox and yanks both have other guys to carry the team so its not as clear cut as sosa was. The sox still have manny and damon, etc and the yanks have sheffield and matsui.
Would I want a guy with a bat or a glove is another question, depends on the rest of the team. If you have 3 guys hitting 40 homers a year on your team and a shitty 2nd baseman then you get a guy with a good glove.
Though I do believe that the MVP could be won or lost over this 3 game series and probably will be. If Ortiz hits a game winning home run on sunday he'll win cause it's always the last thing you do that people remember.
10-01-2005, 04:49 AM
Giambi was also an atrocious fielder who won the MVP. What's the difference. Ortiz could have played the field and done a poor job. So what? Millar is a better fielder and so he played first. What's the fucking difference. Like first base has an impact.
And Arod really hasn't been a great 3B this year.
And Arod really hasn't been a great 3B this year.
10-01-2005, 04:58 AM
jesus you keep on talking about horrible fielders, a rod is not a horrible fielder so there really is no discussion, I really don't see your point. If Ortiz played even a decent 1st base there would be more cause for him but he doesn't.
The issue is that a rod has more cause, cause he does play the field and plays it well, which is all the more reason for him winning. If they both played the field equally then i'd vote for ortiz.
The issue is that a rod has more cause, cause he does play the field and plays it well, which is all the more reason for him winning. If they both played the field equally then i'd vote for ortiz.
10-01-2005, 05:05 AM
The Jays Wrote:Mo Vaughn won the MVP with 39 home runs and 126 runs batted on for a team which won 86 games, beating out Albert Bell's 50 HR 126 rbis for his 100 win Indians. Just so happens, Mo Vaugn only played in 140 games, and played first for 138 of them, witn a .998 fielding percentage, and setting career fielding highs in put outs, assists, and DP for a season.wasn't that the year albert belle was caught for using a corked bat?
Sammy Sosa? Are you trying to compare David Ortiz this season to Sammy Sosa hitting 66 home runs and batting 158 rbis?
Vlad batted .337 last year, 39 hr, 126 rbi, 124 runs, 15 sb, and 366 tb.
and i find it funny that on the espnation poll, every state had a higher percentage for david ortiz (most of them it was pretty close), except of course for new york and new jersey
10-01-2005, 05:06 AM
and vlad won the mvp that year because of all the big hits he had in the final month of the season
10-01-2005, 05:13 AM
So who's the MVP for the NL?
10-01-2005, 06:12 AM
Pujols of course, but if he's 25 then Palmieros urine is clean.
10-01-2005, 07:25 AM
If Guerrero were a full-time DH last year and put up the same stats, he still would have won. It's not just a matter of comparing a bunch of stats. Sure that's part of it, but there are certain things that MVP's do at certain times. And Ortiz has had more MVP type moments than Rodriguez. Yeah Rodriguez has the stats, and yeah he has a glove. But he still doesn't have the "feel" of an MVP. Just like he didn't have the feel of an MVP when he won it 2 years ago - on a last place team. And the only reason he won was because nobody that made the playoffs came close to touching him statistically. With occasional exceptions like this, all the MVP has really awarded in rececnt years is the best offensive player on a team that makes the playoffs. When was the last time defense was a factor when debating MVP candidates? Case in point: Pujols winning over Jones.
As for the other awards:
NL CY - Carpenter
AL CY - Rivera (at16:5 odds)
AL ROY - Street
NY ROY - Howard
AL Manager - Guillen
NL Manager - Cox (first to ever win 2 in a row)
As for the other awards:
NL CY - Carpenter
AL CY - Rivera (at16:5 odds)
AL ROY - Street
NY ROY - Howard
AL Manager - Guillen
NL Manager - Cox (first to ever win 2 in a row)
10-01-2005, 02:31 PM
How can Pujols be the MVP when he sucks defensively and Andruw Jones and Derek Lee are both gold glovers? I thought defense matters.
Hmmmmmmmm? Hmmmmmmmmm!
Hmmmmmmmm? Hmmmmmmmmm!
10-01-2005, 04:33 PM
because jones and lee aren't on the yankees, duh
10-01-2005, 06:32 PM
Because Jones while having impressive home run numbers, has a horrible average and he carried the team in spurts but not on a consistent basis like pujols. Lee is the same way, he's gone MIA the last couple months when it really counted. You're really reminding me of arpi right now at how you are hounding on this defense stuff as if I am saying that a rod is a shitty hitter and should win cause of his glove, you really need to control yourself young man. Plus you know damn well you are picking pujols as well and raised the question so you could make your witty retort.
10-01-2005, 07:11 PM
ninth inning, 2 outs, game on the line, do you want Ortiz or A Rod?
10-01-2005, 07:49 PM
anyone who says Arod is a retard.
10-01-2005, 08:14 PM
No one was arguing the fact that he's clutch.
10-01-2005, 09:14 PM
we're arguing that clutch is the only thing he is.
10-01-2005, 09:17 PM
Well I wouldnt go that far, it's like saying all bonds does is walk and hit home runs. Ortiz is quite deserving and I wouldnt mind either of them winning but I am more towards A Rod in the voting, Ortiz has the edge offensively but A Rod defensively is what inclines me to him because he has that edge. Ortiz is very clutch and thats huge and what makes an MVP, so in no way am I saying he isnt deserving.
10-02-2005, 04:09 AM
If Guerrero were a full time DH last year, should Sheffield have been MVP instead?
10-02-2005, 04:10 AM
Ortiz should win the MVP like Mariano should win the Cy Young.