10-02-2005, 04:16 AM
10-02-2005, 06:47 PM
define what qualifications a cy young needs to have. i think its too arbitrary.
10-02-2005, 06:55 PM
it has to be a pitcher
10-02-2005, 07:00 PM
most dominant or most valuable?
10-02-2005, 07:03 PM
Randy Johnson didn't get the Cy Young last year yet he had the lowest ERA. His team gave him almost 0 run support and he only ended up with like 17 wins. So domination isn't the only piece of the Cy Young.
10-02-2005, 07:05 PM
win shares is most valuable stat in MVP discussions
Brian Roberts is the most valuable player to his team.
Hardball Times - Win Shares For MVP
Brian Roberts is the most valuable player to his team.
Hardball Times - Win Shares For MVP
10-06-2005, 06:23 AM
CY goes to the best pitcher, not necessarily the most valuable. However, Rivera has been both this year. Colon's only qualification is his 20 wins. His ERA was 3rd best ON HIS TEAM, and he was behind Lackey in strikeouts. The only logical argument against Rivera is that several closers had comparable numbers this year - namely Wagner, Cordero, Turnbow. Of course, all of them are in the NL where there is more than one starter to compete against.
Quote:If Guerrero were a full time DH last year, should Sheffield have been MVP instead?Somebody fucking answer this please.
10-06-2005, 01:57 PM
No because the argument by me is that both ortiz and arods offensive numbers and in my view value to their teams are comparable with ortiz having a slight edge, BUT that a rod playing the field and by doing so has saved games with his glove as well then that puts him over the top. Both players are not the single force that drove the team, there are many factors, sure the race was close but you can argue if boston had a better bullpen they'd have run away with the decision, if schilling had been heatlhy, etc. Don't forget that Manny is right begind ortiz with his numbers, he also hit the 140 rbi and 40 home run plateau.
On the other hand you have clear cut MVP winners because they are the one force that drives the team like for example Barry Bonds, this year proved that beyond a doubt. In a horrible division where all you had to do was play .500 ball to make the playoffs, the giants failed. Even when Bonds came back in the last couple weeks they all of a sudden had some hope and were within 2 games, maybe if he came back a week earlier it woulda been different. Bonds might as well be a DH cause his glove is almost worthless.
Guerrero even this year when he was out with an injury it looked like there was little chance the angels make it and Vlad comes back and goes on a tear hitting homers, driving in runs and batting in the high 300s to carry that team and as quick as that they were a sinch to make the playoffs. I am in no way saying that being a DH disqualifies you from the MVP, I am saying you have to be far and away better though because you play half an inning every inning. Guerrero was a clear cut choice for that MVP.
On the other hand you have clear cut MVP winners because they are the one force that drives the team like for example Barry Bonds, this year proved that beyond a doubt. In a horrible division where all you had to do was play .500 ball to make the playoffs, the giants failed. Even when Bonds came back in the last couple weeks they all of a sudden had some hope and were within 2 games, maybe if he came back a week earlier it woulda been different. Bonds might as well be a DH cause his glove is almost worthless.
Guerrero even this year when he was out with an injury it looked like there was little chance the angels make it and Vlad comes back and goes on a tear hitting homers, driving in runs and batting in the high 300s to carry that team and as quick as that they were a sinch to make the playoffs. I am in no way saying that being a DH disqualifies you from the MVP, I am saying you have to be far and away better though because you play half an inning every inning. Guerrero was a clear cut choice for that MVP.
10-06-2005, 02:07 PM
Arod's glove was a little loose last night.
10-06-2005, 02:16 PM
you don't base anything off one game or the playoffs for mvp, sure everyone fouls up and im sure theres been plenty of times ortiz has come up short in a game tying and winning situation its just that he comes through more than others but even if he hits 400 with risp, he still comes up short then 60 percent of the time. Anyway the won one in anaheim and now have 2 at home so its all good, unlike the sox.
10-06-2005, 02:27 PM
Bucky Dent is my MVP every year
This year, it's Giambi.
However, due to politics and and the steroid issue..
It's A-Rod.
I have zero respect for Ortiz as a DH.
How valuable would he be to his team hitting home runs if he were also in the field letting balls fly past him and not making catches?
This year, it's Giambi.
However, due to politics and and the steroid issue..
It's A-Rod.
I have zero respect for Ortiz as a DH.
How valuable would he be to his team hitting home runs if he were also in the field letting balls fly past him and not making catches?
10-06-2005, 02:32 PM
i dont think ortiz should be penalized for not playing the field. the american league has made the DH a position, and therefore when it comes to voting for MVP, a DH should not have to be extra valuable to overcome someone else who also happens to carry a glove.
10-06-2005, 02:35 PM
ortiz is good when he plays 1B.
i dont know if you yankee fans are aware of this but last year in the WORLD SERIES, he made an outstanding play to throw someone out at third base.
i dont know if you yankee fans are aware of this but last year in the WORLD SERIES, he made an outstanding play to throw someone out at third base.
10-06-2005, 02:47 PM
dh is not a position, its a spot in the line up. Naturally its not his fault he doesnt get playing time for that fact that there is a dh spot in the AL but thats my opinion in the matter and you seem to be making this a red sox/yankees thing which its not. Like I said 20 times already, I wouldnt be upset at all if Ortiz won, its just my opinion that he's not so much better than A Rod because for what advantage ortiz has in offense, a rod makes up for with his glove. Its as if I am saying that for the simple reason hes a dh he doesnt deserve to win which is exactly what I am not saying. My Point is that both teams are very similar in that their pitching wasnt great all year and both teams have great supporting players so to me its not like a bonds where they are the only thing on the team that makes them a contender.
10-06-2005, 04:11 PM
So just to get this straight. you would rather have a bad fielder (Giambi, Juan gonzalez, Sosa, even Manny) get MVP over someone who doesn't play the field?
10-06-2005, 04:31 PM
Yes.
Because they risk it and they're still great, valuable players. THEY'RE bats make up for what they lack in the field where as Ortiz's bat makes up for what he DOESN'T risk in the field.
They overcome when tested while he chews on sunflower seeds awaiting his next at bat.
Because they risk it and they're still great, valuable players. THEY'RE bats make up for what they lack in the field where as Ortiz's bat makes up for what he DOESN'T risk in the field.
They overcome when tested while he chews on sunflower seeds awaiting his next at bat.
10-06-2005, 05:14 PM
Galt Wrote:So just to get this straight. you would rather have a bad fielder (Giambi, Juan gonzalez, Sosa, even Manny) get MVP over someone who doesn't play the field?you are seriously like a broken record, you keep on asking the same question over and over and then harping about it after I answer by asking it again in a different manner. We already discussed the sosa situation a few pages ago.
Bonds is not a great fielder but what he does with his bat far exceeds his fielding, no one comes close to what bonds does offensively, clear cut MVP.
Ortiz is not that much greater than a rod, the he's so clear cut, its not as if I am saying that ortiz has 60 homers and 180 rbis and arod has 35 homers and 100 rbis and he deserves it strictly for playing the field.
I have made this point 20 fuckin times and you come back and consistently harp about it as if a rod is a shitty offensive player and I disqualify ortiz strictly because he's a dh and that fielding is the only important issue. Then make silly comparisons like sosa didnt deserve it cause all he did was hit 66 homers and drive in 160 runs and carry the cubs in 98 but he shouldnt have won cause hes a shitty fielder are you seriously that obtuse? Plus I dont remember giambi, juan or sosa having mvp caliber seasons so why bring them up repeatedly to prove a moot point or make stupid examples like why ozzie didnt win every year for his defense.
10-06-2005, 05:25 PM
dont diss mannys defense. league leader in outfield assists!
10-06-2005, 06:00 PM
manny is feast or famine defensively. he makes some spectacular plays and at other times he looks like he never played the position in his life. if it were not for manny being so unfocused, his assist accuracy would be enough to warrant him being one of the premier defensive outfielders in the game.
10-06-2005, 07:06 PM
Keyser Soze Wrote:manny is feast or famine defensively. he makes some spectacular plays and at other times he looks like he never played the position in his life. if it were not for manny being so unfocused, his assist accuracy would be enough to warrant him being one of the premier defensive outfielders in the game.how many red sox games did you watch this year?