12-08-2006, 09:39 PM
12-08-2006, 09:45 PM
seriously good deal or seriously bad deal?
Gil Meche just got $11 million/yr for 5 years, so paying another $5 million for Pettite without a lengthy committment is pretty much a no brainer.
Gil Meche just got $11 million/yr for 5 years, so paying another $5 million for Pettite without a lengthy committment is pretty much a no brainer.
12-08-2006, 09:53 PM
the meche deal was plain stupid. but it was the royals so it is expected. but how much more is zito going to go for that they couldn't/wouldn't throw a few more million in his direction? Not that I'm a yankee fan but $16 for a .500 pitcher last year seems kinda nuts
12-08-2006, 09:57 PM
and the guys are espn are going fucking nuts for this deal like the yankees signed the messiah. He is, as espn stated, the 5th or 6th best starter on the market. The phillies made a better deal trading 2 young players for Freddy Garcia which is going to help them alot and the Dodgers signing schmidt for less money a year than petitte is getting, albeit for 2 more years, looks like a steal right now.
12-08-2006, 09:58 PM
They spent $16 million on Pettite.
They would have to spend $100 million on Zito.
It's not like they could have gotten Zito to sign a one year (or anything less than 5 year) contract, so they aren't comparable.
After Wright and Pavana, I don't know if the Yanks are ready to throw out another multi-year $100 million contract to a pitcher.
They would have to spend $100 million on Zito.
It's not like they could have gotten Zito to sign a one year (or anything less than 5 year) contract, so they aren't comparable.
After Wright and Pavana, I don't know if the Yanks are ready to throw out another multi-year $100 million contract to a pitcher.
12-08-2006, 10:03 PM
along with my above mentions....Randy Wolf, 7-3 down the stretch for $8 Million for the dodgers, Ted Lilly 4 years 10 million per for the cubs. Being a neutral person here, it looks like they are trying to relive past glory and win that way instead of trying to get less established "name" players who could possibly produce better results for them.
12-08-2006, 10:05 PM
its a good deal. the astros were 12th in the league in terms of run scoring. pettite would have won alot more games with a team that could hit. he was almost a steal at the price.
12-09-2006, 12:03 AM
he's not worth 16 million, but in a market where jason schmidt is getting 16 per for 3 years, its relative. they're only committed for one year so its a trade off in that respect.
i think one of the best deals made was getting randy wolf on a one-year contract for $7.5 million with a 2008 option for $9 million, and glavine looks like a steal at 1 year for $10.5
carlos zambrano is going to get a ridiculous deal next year, the cubs should have locked him in before this offseason drove the market to obscene levels.
i think one of the best deals made was getting randy wolf on a one-year contract for $7.5 million with a 2008 option for $9 million, and glavine looks like a steal at 1 year for $10.5
carlos zambrano is going to get a ridiculous deal next year, the cubs should have locked him in before this offseason drove the market to obscene levels.
12-09-2006, 02:50 AM
he has a player option for 2008. No reason that he won't come back and make an extra 16 large even if he isn't what he was the last time he was a yank. plus ist seems the yanks got the home team discount since it's reported that he would have went back to the astros for 14 but they only offered 12
12-09-2006, 03:18 AM
like others said, with the market being so screwed up this year this is a good deal
12-09-2006, 03:31 AM
yankees are buying their way into mediocriticiness again
12-09-2006, 03:49 AM
his first home game is gonna be pure crazyness.
12-09-2006, 05:31 AM
if the Yanks lock up that Jap pitcher they'll have 3 good lefties in the rotation...They should handle the AL east easily and probably make it to later October.
12-09-2006, 05:42 AM
they'll make the playoffs, the issue is once they get there.
either their pitching chokes or the bats do.
but glad to see they're doing something about the pitching. Pettite always got lots of run support in NY for whatever reason, plus maybe a return to NY will be better for him.
But a 1 year deal cant hurt.
either their pitching chokes or the bats do.
but glad to see they're doing something about the pitching. Pettite always got lots of run support in NY for whatever reason, plus maybe a return to NY will be better for him.
But a 1 year deal cant hurt.
12-10-2006, 08:19 AM
i saw this posted on another site, i'm not sure of the website it was originally taken from
Yes, between the Cards defense and offense (pumping up his win totals), this is the classic case of a horrible pitcher looking mediocre to a really stupid team. Marquis is a replacement level pitcher who has somehow managed to get lots of ML innings, similar to Estes and a few others in recent years. Don't let even his ERA+ in 04 and 05 fool you as that is heavily influenced by defense which is not accounted for of course in the ERA+ formula, not to mention the difference between FIP or DIPS ERA and regular ERA (which can be heavily influenced by luck - BABIP). Here are Marquis' NERC for the last 5 years. NERC is a component ERA adjusted for park, opponent, and defense, and then normalized to 4.00 (for that league only). It does not do a DIPS (BABIP) adjustment. The average starter has an NERC of around 4.20 (reliever around 3.90).
2002 5.29
2003 4.11
2004 4.80
2005 4.80
2006 5.07
He is he quintessential definition of a replacement pitcher. In fact, I use around 4.80 as replacement level as the true talent of the worst starters in baseball is around that (.6 runs per 9 innings worse than an average starter). His monetary value is next to nothing and I don't mean that figuratively or hyperbolicly.
So far and off the top of my head, this, Meche, and Carlos Lee are the worst signings of the off-season. This is the worst, by far, of the three. What makes Marquis such a bad pitcher, and which is unlikely to change (true-talent-wise of course), is that his HR rate is terrible, his walk rate is not even average, and his K rate is terrible as well. You can't get any worse than that and still have a job in the major leagues.
Yes, between the Cards defense and offense (pumping up his win totals), this is the classic case of a horrible pitcher looking mediocre to a really stupid team. Marquis is a replacement level pitcher who has somehow managed to get lots of ML innings, similar to Estes and a few others in recent years. Don't let even his ERA+ in 04 and 05 fool you as that is heavily influenced by defense which is not accounted for of course in the ERA+ formula, not to mention the difference between FIP or DIPS ERA and regular ERA (which can be heavily influenced by luck - BABIP). Here are Marquis' NERC for the last 5 years. NERC is a component ERA adjusted for park, opponent, and defense, and then normalized to 4.00 (for that league only). It does not do a DIPS (BABIP) adjustment. The average starter has an NERC of around 4.20 (reliever around 3.90).
2002 5.29
2003 4.11
2004 4.80
2005 4.80
2006 5.07
He is he quintessential definition of a replacement pitcher. In fact, I use around 4.80 as replacement level as the true talent of the worst starters in baseball is around that (.6 runs per 9 innings worse than an average starter). His monetary value is next to nothing and I don't mean that figuratively or hyperbolicly.
So far and off the top of my head, this, Meche, and Carlos Lee are the worst signings of the off-season. This is the worst, by far, of the three. What makes Marquis such a bad pitcher, and which is unlikely to change (true-talent-wise of course), is that his HR rate is terrible, his walk rate is not even average, and his K rate is terrible as well. You can't get any worse than that and still have a job in the major leagues.
12-10-2006, 04:31 PM
the cubs didnt even need marquis, they're going to have prior and wade miller fighting over the 5th spot in that rotation.
with a healthy derrick lee, addition of soriano, and aramis ramirez returning, they will be giving us another wonderful bartman moment in the very near future.
with a healthy derrick lee, addition of soriano, and aramis ramirez returning, they will be giving us another wonderful bartman moment in the very near future.
12-10-2006, 06:24 PM
dodgers in 07!
12-11-2006, 02:13 AM
I think the key to the Yankees signing Pettite is he is a good, proven post season pitcher. I don't think any of the other pitchers mentioned can claim that. Plus, if the Yankees were involved in talks with any of those other pitchers, the price on them would have gone up.
12-11-2006, 03:12 AM
from <a href="http://yankees2000.blogspot.com/2006/12/baseball-economics-from-andy-to-zito.html">Promote The Curse</a>...
Late Friday afternoon, Andy Pettitte got paid. Oh boy did he get paid, all 14-13, 4.20 ERA, 1.44 WHIP of him, statistics he put up even though his team played NL Central powerhouses like the Brewers, Cubs and Pirates an inordinate amount of times.
In case you weren't keeping track, those three teams finished 27th, 28th, and 29th, respectively, in all of MLB in runs scored, and 24th, 27th and 30th, again, respectively, in OPS. If you're interested, the other two teams in that division, the Cardinals and the Reds, finished 14th and 22nd in runs scored and 14th and 15th in OPS.
Pettitte made interleague starts against the Royals, Rangers and White Sox, and allowed 15 earned runs in 17 innings, going 0-2 with an ERA close to 9.
In short, there's no statistic out there that justifies giving Andy Pettitte $16 million. Did I say $16 million? My mistake. You see, the amount of money the Yanks are throwing at Pettitte becomes particularly unconscionable when you factor in the effect of the luxury tax. Basically, the Yankees pay $1.40 for every 1 dollar they spend.
Factoring that in to the equation, the Yankees are paying $22.4 million for Andy Pettitte. It's completely ridiculous.
Perhaps the best commentary I've heard about the deal was made by some barfly quoted in Saturday's Daily News. "We spend too much on everybody," Sean Higgins said, "so why stop now?"
You know, I really can't argue with him. Pettitte's a fine addition to their club. If your team has a pressing need, with this offseason being what it is, you could do a lot worse than to fill that need with a 1-year player.
But just so we're clear, the Yankees just spent $16/22.4 million on their third (fourth?) starter.
Somewhere, Barry Zito is jamming some sweet DMB on his acoustic guitar. Somewhere else, Scott Boras is smiling.
Late Friday afternoon, Andy Pettitte got paid. Oh boy did he get paid, all 14-13, 4.20 ERA, 1.44 WHIP of him, statistics he put up even though his team played NL Central powerhouses like the Brewers, Cubs and Pirates an inordinate amount of times.
In case you weren't keeping track, those three teams finished 27th, 28th, and 29th, respectively, in all of MLB in runs scored, and 24th, 27th and 30th, again, respectively, in OPS. If you're interested, the other two teams in that division, the Cardinals and the Reds, finished 14th and 22nd in runs scored and 14th and 15th in OPS.
Pettitte made interleague starts against the Royals, Rangers and White Sox, and allowed 15 earned runs in 17 innings, going 0-2 with an ERA close to 9.
In short, there's no statistic out there that justifies giving Andy Pettitte $16 million. Did I say $16 million? My mistake. You see, the amount of money the Yanks are throwing at Pettitte becomes particularly unconscionable when you factor in the effect of the luxury tax. Basically, the Yankees pay $1.40 for every 1 dollar they spend.
Factoring that in to the equation, the Yankees are paying $22.4 million for Andy Pettitte. It's completely ridiculous.
Perhaps the best commentary I've heard about the deal was made by some barfly quoted in Saturday's Daily News. "We spend too much on everybody," Sean Higgins said, "so why stop now?"
You know, I really can't argue with him. Pettitte's a fine addition to their club. If your team has a pressing need, with this offseason being what it is, you could do a lot worse than to fill that need with a 1-year player.
But just so we're clear, the Yankees just spent $16/22.4 million on their third (fourth?) starter.
Somewhere, Barry Zito is jamming some sweet DMB on his acoustic guitar. Somewhere else, Scott Boras is smiling.