Mad Wrote:I'm a Libertarian, first and foremost Mr. Label thrower around. Which means that some family beef between the Bushes and Sadam going way back isn't just cause to invade that shit hole. Unless of course it's for my Daddy's friends, who just so happen to be my best buds too.
Swallow more propaganda and FNC cum guzzler.
im with mad on this one. just so the authorities know, this is a rare event and i don't want to join his militia.
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Mad Wrote:I'm a Libertarian, first and foremost Mr. Label thrower around. Which means that some family beef between the Bushes and Sadam going way back isn't just cause to invade that shit hole. Unless of course it's for my Daddy's friends, who just so happen to be my best buds too.
Swallow more propaganda and FNC cum guzzler.
You may want to read up on libertarianism again. One of the basic tenets of libertarianism is the belief that the government doesn't have the right to infringe on individual rights, with "your life" being a pretty major right.
I understand what you're saying. Another point is that we shouldn't have been in Iraq in the first place.
Our form of government was founded to protect the rights of the individual. Not invade other country's under false and misleading pretenses to dispose of a two bit thug that we helped put in power.
Is that clearer?
This hindsight argument is quite tedius.
Yes, our intelligence, British intelligence, Russian intelligence and most of the rest of the international community believed that Iraq either had already developd, or were in the process of developing WMD.
To say that Bush "lied" or "mislead" us into war is completely without any basis of argument, and it's so tiresome. The only thing close is the whole "iraq tried to buy WMD from Africa" state of the union. But that was after IRW was already passed.
Sure, the basis for the war was, in retrospect, false, but it's really tough to fault them at the time for relying on their intelligence community - what else should the President rely on if it's not the CIA, FBI, and most trusted allies?
Systematic incompetance is not an acceptable excuse, and his administration is by no means absolved of this, but let's at least get the faults correct.
This is just the most elaborate revenge plot since the time Sgt. Mahoney replaced Captain Harris' shampoo with glue in Police Academy 3.
this argument can only be settled in one place...
Thunderdome.
Mad Wrote:I'm a Libertarian, first and foremost Mr. Label thrower around. Which means that some family beef between the Bushes and Sadam going way back isn't just cause to invade that shit hole. Unless of course it's for my Daddy's friends, who just so happen to be my best buds too.
Swallow more propaganda and FNC cum guzzler.
You're making the mistake of lumping Saddam's deserved death in with the worn out cliche' of hating the Bush's. I'm not. I don't care or pretend that it's a big part of the war, whether we should've or shouldn't have gone to war or anything else. It's really pretty simplistic. He's dead, he deserved to be dead and that makes me happy.
That you are forcing yourself to argue against this basic common sense due to political hatred is your problem.
saying it's a worn out cliche to hate Bush is what I love most, lets just drop that doozy on the conflict in the middle east as well and end the whole thing.
Where does it state that we are the worlds cop and as such, need to police everyone else's actions?
If history is a guide, the right policy and the best policy for a free country was enunciated by Thomas Jefferson in his First Inaugural Address over two hundred years ago:
"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations -- entangling alliances with none."
maybe i wasn't clear...
hating bush is a persons prerogative.
forming opinions contrary to what you'd normally think in order vocally hate bush is what's cliche' and worn out. if you take away all politcal factors and just look at the leader saddam was and what he did, you can't honestly say he didn't deserve exactly what he got. if you can, you're a liberal!!
Mad Wrote:Where does it state that we are the worlds cop and as such, need to police everyone else's actions?
If history is a guide, the right policy and the best policy for a free country was enunciated by Thomas Jefferson in his First Inaugural Address over two hundred years ago:
"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations -- entangling alliances with none."
it's the un's job to be the world's police.
we are a part of that organization. just because other corrupt countries prefer to work on the contrary to what it was intended for does not negate other member countries responsibility.
The End Justifying the Means...and the fact the result is more important than the clusterfuck of dead bodies and dead ideas & planning to get there is part of the NeoCon ideal and the very crux of the problem. Kneejerk desires and end results disguised as 'democracy" and Iraqi justice is just the tip of an iceberg of denial, justifications, and missteps of side ventures while other enemies not only remain at large, have actually gotten a foothold in a place of where this "democracy' and so-called justice is being so LIBERALLY dispensed by those sucking down this imaginary gravy. We are choking on this bullshit, meanwhile things remain a mess.
Gooch Wrote:The End Justifying the Means...and the fact the result is more important than the clusterfuck of dead bodies and dead ideas & planning to get there is part of the NeoCon ideal and the very crux of the problem. Kneejerk desires and end results disguised as 'democracy" and Iraqi justice is just the tip of an iceberg of denial, justifications, and missteps of side ventures while other enemies not only remain at large, have actually gotten a foothold in a place of where this "democracy' and so-called justice is being so LIBERALLY dispensed by those sucking down this imaginary gravy. We are choking on this bullshit, meanwhile things remain a mess.
what does any of this have to do with saddam being hung?
do you think he deserved the death penalty or not?
that's the only question.
The UNs function was to be an American arm without being perceived as an American arm. And then when it doesn't conform to our will & wishes, it becomes ineffectual, corrupt, and misguided.
Hoon Wrote:Gooch Wrote:The End Justifying the Means...and the fact the result is more important than the clusterfuck of dead bodies and dead ideas & planning to get there is part of the NeoCon ideal and the very crux of the problem. Kneejerk desires and end results disguised as 'democracy" and Iraqi justice is just the tip of an iceberg of denial, justifications, and missteps of side ventures while other enemies not only remain at large, have actually gotten a foothold in a place of where this "democracy' and so-called justice is being so LIBERALLY dispensed by those sucking down this imaginary gravy. We are choking on this bullshit, meanwhile things remain a mess.
what does any of this have to do with saddam being hung?
do you think he deserved the death penalty or not?
that's the only question.
That is not the only question. That question is irrelevant. That is the only question for those ignoring the very particulars which make is a hanging wrought with issues and things to think about. Its asking everyone to ignore all things..and simply be happy with the result. But, my friend, it is that very process, that very path to this result which is very much my own issue.
Gooch Wrote:The UNs function was to be an American arm without being perceived as an American arm. And then when it doesn't conform to our will & wishes, it becomes ineffectual, corrupt, and misguided.
way to avoid valid points with more worn out, baseless cliche'.
Gooch Wrote:Hoon Wrote:Gooch Wrote:The End Justifying the Means...and the fact the result is more important than the clusterfuck of dead bodies and dead ideas & planning to get there is part of the NeoCon ideal and the very crux of the problem. Kneejerk desires and end results disguised as 'democracy" and Iraqi justice is just the tip of an iceberg of denial, justifications, and missteps of side ventures while other enemies not only remain at large, have actually gotten a foothold in a place of where this "democracy' and so-called justice is being so LIBERALLY dispensed by those sucking down this imaginary gravy. We are choking on this bullshit, meanwhile things remain a mess.
what does any of this have to do with saddam being hung?
do you think he deserved the death penalty or not?
that's the only question.
That is not the only question. That question is irrelevant. That is the only question for those ignoring the very particulars which make is a hanging wrought with issues and things to think about. Its asking everyone to ignore all things..and simply be happy with the result. But, my friend, it is that very process, that very path to this result which is very much my own issue.
that IS the only question. you can't answer it because answering it honestly does not support your political agenda. sometimes an apple is just an apple. what it means to you and others is irrelevent.
Let's recap.
Saddam attacks Kuwait.
The US goes in and pushes them out.
The US says "we'll stop killing your soldiers and we'll let you stay in power if you agree to UN inspections." Saddam says "deal". Now the US will be able to know if Iraq is building any WMD. If not, hey man, you live your life, don't fuck with other countries and we're good.
UN says, "knock knock, can we come in?"
Saddam says "hey, fuck you UN, you can't see shit"
US says "come on, please"
Saddam says, "seriously, piss off"
US says "that's not cool dude, you promised."
Saddam says, "stupid bitch."
This goes on for a decade
Then the US gets attacked by terrorists. Americans start realizing "wait, we're not invincible. Some retards who eat dust and live in caves just walked all over us. What if someoen with some real funding wants to take it to us. We're, honestly pretty helpless."
So the US says, "seriously, Saddam, please? We just got a little fucked up and it would really help us out if we could just see what you've got going on in there?"
Saddam says "Ugh, crybaby. Go away. No. Fuck off."
The US says "You know what. You're a dick. I'm serious. If you don't let us in, we're going to kick your ass."
Saddam says "ohhhh, I'm scared. No you can't check anything."
War starts.
Hey, guess what. Saddam didn't have any WMD. If only he had said "sure, come look. Then leave me alone" he'd still be in charge, and we wouldn't be at war with Iraq (probably Iran or North Korea instead).