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State of the League Address
I joined this league because I was sick of being in leagues with lazy, inactive, ill-informed, inexperienced managers that abandoned their team in May. I wanted to be in a highly competitive, active league with knowledgeable, experienced owners that knew how to play the game.
I have overlooked several things over the course of the season – Chisholm’s sudden, inexplicable exile, the stupidity and inefficiency of running the minor league draft on a messageboard, some of the rules I wholeheartedly disagreed with, the fact that nobody was participating in conversation, etc. But I kept quiet and just kept playing and having fun and tried to build the best team I could for this year and next.
I could have just as easily overlooked this latest clusterfuck involving the stats, but, well, actually I couldn’t. This is too glaring an oversight, too big of a fuckup, to just let go without saying anything. Unfortunately, everything I can say about it has already been said, in private messages with Chambers, the assistant commissioner. I mention the fact that he’s the assistant because our regular commissioner has been glaringly absent throughout this whole ordeal. As such, the easiest way for me to address the State of the League will be to simply copy and paste these private messages. Even though nobody else seems to care, I think everyone deserves to know exactly what went down in the wake of these stat fuckups. I’m sure nobody has the attention span or motivation to read through all of this, but that is exactly what the problem is with this league. If people had just the slightest modicum of reading comprehension, they’d know how to follow some simple rules.
Re: Inconsistencies
Posted by Bloody Anus, to Everyone
Jul 28, 03:31 pm ET
I realize my points "should not" have changed significantly from three days ago, but they did and that is the problem.
Here are the stats through last Monday, 7/21:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://memoirsofadespicableman.com/pics/fantasy08/screenshots/072108-standings.jpg">http://memoirsofadespicableman.com/pics ... ndings.jpg</a><!-- m -->
Compare that to the current stats, and you will see that my stats are accurate. What is inaccurate are the stats of other teams. For example, from Monday to Sunday Kirchner went from 117 HR to 142; 540 RBI to 630; 527 Runs to 617, and so on. Without looking at the last week's stats, I can safely assume that he did not have 25 HR, 90 RBI, and 90 Runs in a matter of 6 days.
So the issue is not anything with my team, the issue is that "rerunning" the stats completely altered the course of history and the course of the season. I don't have any problem with enforcing the rules, but going back and retroactively enforcing the rules that weren't enforced in May is not the answer. Why should the fact that some teams weren't following the rules have such an adverse effect on teams that were following the rules? Why am I being penalized for other teams' incompetence? Why should I suddenly lose 10+ points in the standings through no fault of my own? This is not an issue that affects just me; it affects the entire league. Everybody's stats and roto points are completed jacked up now because of these adjustments.
If we're going to retroactively change stats, why not retroactively change other things too? The Guerrero trade I just made was based on the standings being a certain way. Since they are no longer that way, let's go back in time and alter history so that trade never went through. Hell, for that matter I underspent at the draft, let's go back and allow me to add an extra player or two. Of course, that would take players away from other teams, but who cares? Just "rerun" the stats to make up for it.
This is not good.
RE
Posted by trinitystuds, to Everyone
Jul 29, 04:21 pm ET
First of all, I want everyone to know that I really want to find an agreeable solution so that no one feels like they've been screwed.
Also, with the way this works, CBS reruns the stats and I simply tell them to hit the button. So, there is no way for me to effectively discriminate against one team or another.
Bloody, I do recognize the discrepancy. I cannot explain it. It doesn't make sense. Worst of all, I don't even know how it would be possible. BUT, I will email CBS again and ask them what is going on.
I do appoligize to everyone who is just as tired of this as I am, but let's us keep the dialogue open until a solution is acheived.
Hey
Posted by Bloody Anus, to Everyone
Jul 28, 11:26 pm ET
I meant to start Cody Ross today over Delmon Young, but I forgot to change my roster until 3:40, and it was already too late. Can you fix it so that I had Ross in instead of Young? It was an honest mistake and totally not my fault.
Thanks!
Re: Hey
Posted by trinitystuds, to Bloody Anus
Jul 29, 04:26 pm ET
Sorry, but you got me on the one day in a really long time that I was away from my computer. I could change it now, but it would involve rerunning the stats again, and we know how much trouble that has created. Did the guy even do any good? If he didn't, I don't care if you don't.
Re: Hey
Posted by trinitystuds, to Everyone
Jul 29, 04:27 pm ET
We probably don't want to start changing lineups after the games have been played.
Stats
Posted by trinitystuds, to Bloody Anus
Jul 30, 04:53 pm ET
CBS's response was to tell me to go back and fix every illegal roster. There are a ton of them: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://mafl.baseball.sportsline.com/teams/warnings">http://mafl.baseball.sportsline.com/teams/warnings</a><!-- m -->. But the reason, this is not an option is because the stats will never look the same. Consider that we went for so long allowing illegal rosters. If I were to go back and change them, they wouldn't look the same. This would be an irreparable change.
Now, in looking at your numbers, they do seem pretty small, right? I am concerned by the fact that some teams are over and others are under, but can you and I please tell the league that it was likely a mathematical error? please? I say this because idk what the heck is fucked up, nor do I know why it is fucked up. It's simply inexplicable. I don't think it will ever be prefect. And, the standing are pretty darn close to what they should be, I think. Neil's still at the bottom, Cesar at the top, my team's where it was before. That covers the whole spectrum. I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. Are you?
Re: Stats
Posted by Bloody Anus, to trinitystuds
Jul 31, 03:31 am ET
Okay hold on, let me see if I understand what happened here:
-Illegal rosters were supposed to score zero points all season
-But teams with illegal rosters were accumulating points for over half the season.
-Then on July 8th, Parker decided to try enforcing this rule.
-On July 20th, Rocketmen noticed he never got points for the Thursday/Friday games after the All-Star break.
-On July 23rd, Wiener noticed the same problem
-Also on July 23rd, it is revealed that the reason Rocketmen didn't get any points was because a trade was made that "illegalized" his roster.
-July 24: Pretty Rake Machine realizes he has been short a minor leaguer for several days and has not been accumulating points.
-July 24: Boscos notices he hasn't gotten points the last 3 days despite having a legal lineup
-July 26: Kirchner suddenly drops from 40-something points to 11 in one day
-July 26 (if I remember correctly): I drop from the mid-80s, where I have been for weeks, to the low-70s and 5th place to 10th.
-July 26: (your words): something went awry when (CBS) reran the stats. This should be fixed on Monday at the latest. Don't worry about it. (I didn't)
-July 28: (your words): The stats are completely fixed now.
-July 29: I am still in the mid-70s and now Kirchner has all these inflated stats that weren't there for 3+ months of the season.
So in other words, a few teams were fielding illegal rosters but didn't know they'd be penalized for it. Even though this is clearly stated in the charter - AT THE TOP OF THE CHARTER - IN BOLD FONT - "Illegal rosters score zero points in standings."
Even though they were in violation of the rules, it was decided WITHOUT LEAGUE VOTE (which apparently is only used when it's convenient) to "rerun" the stats to accommodate these offending teams.
As a result of this awfully generous gesture, an entire season's worth of stats got flushed down the toilet, as has my season. Kirchner's stats were one way for over half the season, now suddenly they are completely different. I'm sure I don't have to tell you, but this effects a lot more than JUST Kirchner. And the fact that there has still not been any legitimate explanation given as to what caused this sudden, random stats spike is pretty fucking ridiculous.
Still, not as ridiculous as you thinking I'm actually going to be okay with this.
"...The standing are pretty darn close to what they should be, I think. Neil's still at the bottom, Cesar at the top, my team's where it was before. That covers the whole spectrum. I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. Are you?"
Are you fucking insane? Cesar's at the top, Neil's at the bottom, and that's it? Um, what about me? The first place team and the last place team are the same, so everything in between doesn't matter?
I know you want to be done with this whole disaster and don't want to deal with it anymore, but do you really think I'm that fucking stupid?
As far as the rest of your "solution":
"CBS's response was to tell me to go back and fix every illegal roster. There are a ton of them: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://mafl.baseball.sportsline.com/teams/warnings">http://mafl.baseball.sportsline.com/teams/warnings</a><!-- m -->. But the reason, this is not an option is because the stats will never look the same."
THE STATS DON'T LOOK THE SAME NOW. That is the problem. That's why you're still having to deal with this stupid issue. How can you expect anyone to be OK with the stats suddenly, drastically changing in the middle of the season? The fact that more people haven't bitched is actually quite disconcerting to me.
"Consider that we went for so long allowing illegal rosters. If I were to go back and change them, they wouldn't look the same. This would be an irreparable change."
So because of a glaring oversight by the commissioners "office" - an oversight that it took over three months to notice - I have to gracefully forfeit my entire season and just "let it go"? Rerunning the stats in the first place apparently produced an "irreparable change", but that's okay because the first place team and the last place team are the same. Right?
"Now, in looking at your numbers, they do seem pretty small, right?"
Um, WRONG. I lost over 10 points in the standings, remember? That's not small. And even if the stats are "small" it still affects things. 3 HR here, 12 RBI there, 16 Runs there, could be the difference between second and third, or third and fourth, or fourth and fifth. A team in 12th place can easily determine who finishes third. Every stat counts. That's why I (and I'm assuming you and the rest of this league) play in rotisserie leagues and not Head to Head. That's the whole point of this game: to collect stats. When the stats become altered and inaccurate in the middle of the season, what's the point of playing?
"can you and I please tell the league that it was likely a mathematical error? please?"
No. I don't know what it was that caused this, so I'm not going to cover for you. If you fucked up, you fucked up. I don't know what kind of extra buttons and controls the commissioner has, so I can't say for sure that it's all CBS' fault. Had the commissioner noticed that teams had illegal lineups in April, this would not be a problem in July.
And by the way, my request to swap Ross with Young was a JOKE. The fact that you took it seriously and were opening a conversation about it is exactly what the problem is. It's been a rule all year that lineups lock 30 minutes before the first game just as it's been a rule all year that you must maintain a legal roster. You can't go back and alter history because some people didn't understand the rules.
This easily ranks in the top 5 of the most fucked up things I've experienced in 7 years of playing fantasy baseball. (I will get to the rest later) I joined this league because I wanted to get away from the kind of bullshit that ruins the competition. I thought people in a dynasty league would know how to play the game and play it the right way.
This is inexcusable and I am NOT just going to let it go.
RE
Posted by trinitystuds, to Bloody Anus
Jul 31, 04:05 am ET
Bad suggestion, then. I just don't know how to fix this. I'd love your help trying to figure it out. The inconsistencies are clear, but determining the root of the problem is near impossible. How would you do this? Because, I think we're at the point where we can't hit a couple of buttons and make the thing disappear. Look, anyone who is passionate as you are is one of the good guys, so let's work on this together. I will continue to give it all I can going forward….
Jul 31, 04:13 am ET
I never fucked up. Nothing that I did caused any of these errors. There is absolutely no way that it did. Maybe the one error that I made was to check that fucking box in the first place. I hope you understand that this is completely CBS's doing, because I have nothing to do with stats compilation. All I do is tell them to hit compile.
Jul 31, 05:18 am ET
I'm not done with this by any means, but I've concluded a few things. The stats that you've provided are not simply from the wrong date. In fact, there is no day that displays those same totals. This tells me that one of two things happened: rosters changed in the past or CBS changed. I definitely didn't change any rosters. The only other person capable of that, to my knowledge, is Neil. I don't think he did it. So something must've changed with CBS, but this too seems unlikely. Arrg.
Aside, I really hope you don't think I messed this up. I saw a problem unfolding and I decided to tackle it. Our other commish has been blaringly absent. I don't want to be pinned with something just because I had the fortitude to attack it.
Jul 31, 05:30 am ET
Maybe the stats don't match up, but what if what we have now is correct? Would you be opposed to doing some totaling to see if they are? And, do you remember who the assistant commissioner was before me? He would've had access to the rosters. If it was Kirchner, that would explain a lot.
Re:
Posted by Bloody Anus, to trinitystuds
Jul 31, 11:57 am ET
I don't know how things got like this in the first place, so it is difficult to offer any suggestions on how to fix it. I have no idea what kind of access the commissioner has to stats, rosters, transactions, etc. I don't think anything was done intentionally or maliciously, but clearly something was done to alter the stats.
The most logical, fair way to remedy this problem would be to somehow revert the stats back to how they were before everything got fucked up. Regardless if these stats reflect teams earning points while they had an illegal roster, the fact that this rule was not enforced until mid-season should not have any effect on the outcome of the league. Even if these stats reward teams that had illegal rosters, these are the stats that should be used because these are the stats that existed for over half the season.
Again, I don't know what kind of control commissioners have over these things, so I don't know how practical/possible it would be to manually change stats back to a previous state. The latest screen shot I have of the standings is from 7/21. These are the accurate stats. The only way I know of to determine the up to date stats is to do what I did before - take these 7/21 stats and add them to each teams' individual fantasy stats from 7/22-today.
Since this is probably impossible, and since nobody else seems to care, what will probably end up happening is the current stats will stay and the season will have a huge asterisk hanging over it that will chase some teams from the league next year. I know I'm considering it.
RE
Posted by trinitystuds, to Bloody Anus
Jul 31, 02:28 pm ET
Ok. The guy says that there are two things we can do: 1) change every illegal lineup or 2) uncheck the box. 1 is not an option and 2 has already been done. I suggested a manual override for the stats through 7/21, but idk if this is possible. We'll see what he says back, probably sometime today. Bloody, you've been a huge help with this issue.
Jul 31, 05:12 pm ET
I actually talked to the CBS people today rather than email. We went over this thing for about an hour. The best answer that he could come up with was that the stats page that you have was from live scoring. This is significant because with live scoring the stats are inputed by low salary people who make mistakes like hitting 11 instead of 1. Anyway, the guy said that he would be happy to explain it to you further over the phone. All I need from you is a phone number and a good time for him to call, and I can pass it on. I'm sorry this isn't the perfect solution, but it is the best we're going to get.
Re: Re
Posted by Bloody Anus, to Grant Chambers
Aug 01, 03:11 pm ET
I don't see what that really has to do with anything. I have screenshots saved and on my webpage with the Live Scoring stats and standings from the following days:
4/7/08
4/14/08
4/21/08
4/30/08
5/7/08
5/14/08
5/21/08
5/31/08
6/7/08
6/14/08
6/21/08
6/30/08
7/7/08
7/14/08
7/21/08
Obviously I haven't gone through and verified that each and every stat from each and every team is 100% accurate, but it's not as if there's anything blatantly obvious that jumps out. The progression of stats is pretty consistent from week to week, up until when the stats were rerun. Regardless of if some $6/hour retard is responsible for entering the numbers, the numbers from the Live Scoring page were more or less accurate the majority of the season.
I don't see much point in me talking to this guy, either. He's just going to tell me the same thing he told you, which is pretty much to take it in the ass and deal with it. I've dealt with these customer service types more than I'd like to, so I know firsthand that nothing I say; no amount of common sense or logic, will change their minds. If you couldn't get them to do anything, I won't be able to either.
So I guess that's it. You're right, this isn't the perfect solution. Nowhere close to it. But I guess I'll just have to take it in the ass and deal with it, huh? What I suggest doing is at the end of the season go back to the 7/21 stats and add them to the stats from 7/22-9/28. If there is any discrepancy in the top 3 of the standings, the money should be split between the teams. And I think the money for the biggest second half improvement should be completely done away with, especially considering Kirchner could claim this honor due to the sudden, inexplicable change in his stats.
I'm also going to be posting these messages for the entire league to see. Even though most seem not to care, I think everyone deserves to know how this whole thing played out and that it's not all your fault and not all Parker's fault and not all CBS' fault. There is an equal amount of blame to be spread among everyone.
RE
Posted by Grant Chambers, to Bloody Anus
Aug 01, 04:42 pm ET
The customer service guy is actually the manager of the whole place. He's very reasonable and seems to want a solution very badly. Problem is that I don't think he'll tell you anything different than he told me, unless you can bring new information to the table. Unfortunately I don't think there is anything I could've done differently other than say fuck you to Dunshee from the beginning. I definitely agree that we should take what you have through the 21st and add that to the 22nd forward for the official standings, at least for payouts. I wouldn't be opposed to a dialogue about the 2nd half improvement rule either. I will post a thorough message detailing everything sometime tonight. Feel free to post whatever you like because despite what it might seem like sometimes, I want this to be as open of a league as possible.
--
In closing, I would like it to be known that I am strongly considering quitting this league after this year. It is a shame too, as I have put more time and effort into this league than anyone. I have been writing about my team since March 27th and have been nothing but an exemplary player. I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt and believe that none of this was done intentionally or maliciously. But I don’t want to take the chance of something like this happening again, and I am still yet to be convinced that it won’t. What other rules are going to be bent or changed or altered on a whim? Without even looking at this latest stats fuckup, there are several more rules as laid out in the charter that have not been followed or addressed:
-The league payouts have still not been decided, with less than two months left in the season. I realize this is an advanced, complex league, but this should always be one of the first things to be decided.
-From section X of the charter:
“As much as possible, it is each owner’s responsibility to participate in the general chatter and dialog of the league. It is not sufficient enough to simply pay your dues and then be a hermit, as you have an obligation as a league member to contribute to the excitement and general fun dynamic of the league. This rule cannot obviously be enforced, but I ask that you look elsewhere if you are not planning on doing so, or if your schedule is simply too busy to allow you to contribute to the league community.”
The only time there is any dialog in this league is when somebody has something to bitch about. I feel I’ve done my share of contributing. I wrote up the midseason best/worst thing and got no feedback at all. In fact, most messages that are posted only receive 4-5 views; less than half the league. I am a very entertaining person that could easily post something every day, but I’m not going to continue to post shit that nobody reads or responds to.
-$60 league annual league fee due July 31 of each year preceding the following year
Today is August 5th, and there has been no mention of this. Has anybody sent in there money for next year? Will everyone be kicked out for failing to submit their payment on time?
I could keep going, but I’m sure nobody is still reading this. The point is, if stats can just randomly change in the middle of the season, what else can change? Despite some ambiguity, there are several “set in stone” rules and deadlines outlined in the charter. I took the time to learn these rules and plan accordingly for this season and next. After this latest mishap, I have serious doubts that this league will get any better next year. A combination of commissioner incompetence and manager incompetence will lead to even more rules being conveniently skirted. I can see it right now. Someone’s going to forget to do something during the offseason which will once again compromise the integrity of the league. Chisholm was right all along. This league is an abomination.