05-20-2002, 10:20 PM
05-21-2002, 05:36 PM
Saw it yesterday. I have mixed feelings.
- Yoda? The little green goblin rules. The High Noon duel with Duka was priceless. It reminded me of an old Clint eastwood movie right before the fight started. Yoda's hand was twitching. Leading the troops in the final battle scene was a nice touch.
- Portman? Definitely effible (yet again.). but the love story was a bit too overplayed. Who cares? Fuck him and get it over with. We all know how it's going to end up. and Ikea - I also thought Anakin was about rape her.
- The Obi Wan character was very well acted.
- There were alot of subliminal jokes and messages all through out the movie. I'm sure some geek who sees it 800 times will post them on the web somewhere.
- A lot of plot lines started to become clearer. We see Vader's evil coming out. We are introduced to the "aunt and uncle" that bring up Luke Skywalker. We find out the origin or BobaFet. (cloning yourself and calling it your son - that IS a little demented)
- I'm curious if the "clones" turn into "storm troopers" though. I didn't think they were one and the same. Do they turn heel with Anakin in Ep.3 and join him?
Overall - not bad. It wasn't what I was expecting. All the hype of "it's better than ep.1", "lucas redeemed himself", yada yada yada bullshit.....it didn't pan out. I'd put it at just a little above ep.1.
- Yoda? The little green goblin rules. The High Noon duel with Duka was priceless. It reminded me of an old Clint eastwood movie right before the fight started. Yoda's hand was twitching. Leading the troops in the final battle scene was a nice touch.
- Portman? Definitely effible (yet again.). but the love story was a bit too overplayed. Who cares? Fuck him and get it over with. We all know how it's going to end up. and Ikea - I also thought Anakin was about rape her.
- The Obi Wan character was very well acted.
- There were alot of subliminal jokes and messages all through out the movie. I'm sure some geek who sees it 800 times will post them on the web somewhere.
- A lot of plot lines started to become clearer. We see Vader's evil coming out. We are introduced to the "aunt and uncle" that bring up Luke Skywalker. We find out the origin or BobaFet. (cloning yourself and calling it your son - that IS a little demented)
- I'm curious if the "clones" turn into "storm troopers" though. I didn't think they were one and the same. Do they turn heel with Anakin in Ep.3 and join him?
Overall - not bad. It wasn't what I was expecting. All the hype of "it's better than ep.1", "lucas redeemed himself", yada yada yada bullshit.....it didn't pan out. I'd put it at just a little above ep.1.
05-21-2002, 09:09 PM
Quote:- I'm curious if the "clones" turn into "storm troopers" though. I didn't think they were one and the same. Do they turn heel with Anakin in Ep.3 and join him?
No i dont think they are one in the same. I think that Darth Vader uses the same theory to create the stormtroopers. I dont think they are actually clones though. I remember reading in one of the books that clones were basically outlawed after the clone wars.
05-21-2002, 09:34 PM
Quote:I remember reading in one of the books that clones were basically outlawed after the clone wars.And because the emperor is always so quick to follow galactical law, that would stop him. pfft!
I think it's pretty obvious (having not read the books) that the stormtroopers are clones. probably not the same clones as epII, but clones nonetheless. those long-necked motherfuckers wouldn't just stop making clones, would they? I mean, their planet isn't even in the archives.
05-21-2002, 10:33 PM
[TOG] If Stormtroopers are clones how come one is so tall he bumps his head on the door in Episode 4?[/TOG]
05-21-2002, 10:52 PM
Quote:- I'm curious if the "clones" turn into "storm troopers" though. I didn't think they were one and the same. Do they turn heel with Anakin in Ep.3 and join him?
Assuming that the clones are the stormtroopers, they never have to turn heel. They are under the direct control of Senator/Emporer Palpatine. When Anakin turns to Vader, he's working for Palpatine. So he would have control of them too.
05-21-2002, 11:26 PM
Actually, according to the various errata (both fiction and game-based) the Stormtroopers of the Episodes 4+ Empire are in fact NOT clones, but elite indoctrinated ground troops drawn from the fanatic and loyal youth of the Empire. According to these sources Palpatine established something similar to a self-sustaining "Hitler youth" PR/club/organization that's sole purpose was to promote via propaganda and indoctrination a base of young Imperial citizen's whose only loyalties lay not with the Empire, but with Palpatine himself. It is from this base that most Stormtroopers and many Naval officers were drawn.
And yes, according to the same errata cloning is in fact outlawed in the Empire, Palpatine ceratinly didn't want someone using his own tricks against him.
Of course, the one single biggest/truest piece of Star Wars universe erratta is that the movies ALWAYS supersede the fiction and game systems. But unless they make a point of the Stormtroopers being all clones in Episode 3, you can work off the basic assumption that prior fiction is still legitimate.
And yes, according to the same errata cloning is in fact outlawed in the Empire, Palpatine ceratinly didn't want someone using his own tricks against him.
Of course, the one single biggest/truest piece of Star Wars universe erratta is that the movies ALWAYS supersede the fiction and game systems. But unless they make a point of the Stormtroopers being all clones in Episode 3, you can work off the basic assumption that prior fiction is still legitimate.
05-22-2002, 03:13 PM
OK, so I'm a little late to this discussion. I just saw it last night.
Overall, good flick. I had alot of things I didn't like about it, and some others that were great.
GOD damn YOU MAGUS!!! I've been all excited since last night, because they showed the "pre-stormtrooper" clones. I thought they were making it a point to explain that the stormtroopers were in fact clones.
I personally HATED the yoda fight scene. Explain this to me....He can do all the shit with the lightning, and can STOP anything dropped on him, but why on earth couldn't he hurl it back at Dooku? I thought he looked like a muppet reject from the Matrix in this scene. I liked it much better with them just staring each other down and using the force to fight. However, I DID like him being commander. That gave a whole new respect for him.
I didn't like the shadow scene. I thought they stayed focused on it for too long. It should have been much quicker. It was as if they were saying "HEY, look at us, we're being clever!". They did it in the first one with the movie poster. Why bring it back? And if you do bring it back, make it something quick, so you really have to watch close to pick it up.
I thought the asteroid belt, while cool, was redone. Did he forget he did that before? Although the new spin on it with the bombs was cool.
The cantina. Did they need to bring this scene back again?
I thought the Death Start plans was a cool touch to see.
The chase scene was kick ass, going after the assasin.
I also liked the escape scene in the droid plant.
I thought the ONLY time that Anakin acted well was his scenes with Obi Wan. They had a good Master, Padawan relationship going. Seeing his scene with Palpatine was cool as well. Where he tells him he's been a great Mentor. That really builds the framework for the Darth Vader/Emperor relationship. It proves that Palpatine was planning this all along with Anakin in mind.
I'd give it 3 of 5 stars.
Overall, good flick. I had alot of things I didn't like about it, and some others that were great.
GOD damn YOU MAGUS!!! I've been all excited since last night, because they showed the "pre-stormtrooper" clones. I thought they were making it a point to explain that the stormtroopers were in fact clones.
I personally HATED the yoda fight scene. Explain this to me....He can do all the shit with the lightning, and can STOP anything dropped on him, but why on earth couldn't he hurl it back at Dooku? I thought he looked like a muppet reject from the Matrix in this scene. I liked it much better with them just staring each other down and using the force to fight. However, I DID like him being commander. That gave a whole new respect for him.
I didn't like the shadow scene. I thought they stayed focused on it for too long. It should have been much quicker. It was as if they were saying "HEY, look at us, we're being clever!". They did it in the first one with the movie poster. Why bring it back? And if you do bring it back, make it something quick, so you really have to watch close to pick it up.
I thought the asteroid belt, while cool, was redone. Did he forget he did that before? Although the new spin on it with the bombs was cool.
The cantina. Did they need to bring this scene back again?
I thought the Death Start plans was a cool touch to see.
The chase scene was kick ass, going after the assasin.
I also liked the escape scene in the droid plant.
I thought the ONLY time that Anakin acted well was his scenes with Obi Wan. They had a good Master, Padawan relationship going. Seeing his scene with Palpatine was cool as well. Where he tells him he's been a great Mentor. That really builds the framework for the Darth Vader/Emperor relationship. It proves that Palpatine was planning this all along with Anakin in mind.
I'd give it 3 of 5 stars.
05-27-2002, 08:36 AM
I FINALLY saw this Saturday afternoon. I was smiling all weekend! Great film!
First, even Lucas admits he can't write diologue for shit. He's "a visual director. The story rests with the visuals, not the dialogue." That's a direct quote. What the actors were able to accomplish with some really lousy dialogue was great.
Also, Lucas had a co-writer on this script and it really shows. Much better written than Ep. 1
Yoda was awesome. I was wondering why he didn't throw that huge column and Dooku's ship, then they showed the strain on his face and you could tell he couldn't do it. Remember, the guys only about 20 years away from dieing of old age. For a 900 year old guy, that's pretty soon.
Now, the whole Anakin wiping out the Sandpeople tribe was a bit troublesome. Why didn't that push him over to the dark side? I think it's because he was in extreme pain, but not anger. He was in too much pain to be angry. He wasn't fully concious of what he was doing when he did it. And Amadala's lack of reaction was troubling. She should have at least been shocked or upset. Instead she just hugs him and forgets about it in the next scene. Maybe, in the next film they'll show he used a jedi mind trick to make her forget. It would make sense and be another step to the dark side.
I was impressed that Lucas was able to surprise me by having the Jedi lead the clone troops into battle. I always thought it would be Palpatine leading the clones from the very beginning. Nice touch having the Jedi hand him the weapon that will probably lead to their distruction.
I actually liked the CGI effects for the most part. I thought Coruscant was really sold as a city planet with different types of areas. The nice clean upper reaches for the diplomats, the seedy Times Square area, the heavy industrial area, the shots from space. And the aliens were much more seamless than ever before. hell, my biggest worry was that Yoda would look like shit in CGI, but it really looked like a moving Muppet.
And the ships really had a classic feel to them. Like they were inspired by 1960's cars and trucks.
I really loved the idea that the reason Boba Fett will join forces with Vader is because he watched his "father" killed at the hands of a Jedi. Really gives that personal vendetta feel to Ep. 2 and 3.
One other problem I had was the fact that Obi Wan cut off the woman assasin's hand, but they never showed it. It was implied by the fact that she was in shock and cradling her arm, but they never showed the stump and the gun and hand were gone so fast you couldn't really tell.
For those who like to nitpick flaws, in the scene where Yoda is teaching the kids how to use a lightsaber, look at the kid on the far right. When they lift their helmets, his is the only lightsaber that is OFF the whole time.
Potential Spoiler
<font color=white> I saw a behind the scenes show this weekend. They were interviewing Lucas in the African dessert as he filmed the Tatooine scenes for Ep. 2 and they asked him "Why are you filming a scene for Ep. 3 now?" Well, Lucas' cryptic answer was they only needed ONE shot for Ep. 3 filmed there and it would be a waste to come back again for just one scene. Anybody who's a fan can guess what that one scene HAS to be!</font>
Edit - Somebody mentioned not liking seeing Jengo Fett's face. I think seeing that he was a normal human and then seeing him almost beat Obi Wan in one-to-one combat and then kill at least one Jedi during the final battle made him even more of a bad ass.
One thing, was anybody else considering the possibility that Darth Sidious wasn't Palpatine? During Ep. 1 I was considering the possibility that Sidious and Palpatine are rivals or that Plapatine wasn't a Sith yet. But, after Ep. 2 I'm almost positive Palpatine is Sidious. There's always a possibility Lucas is going to surprise us in Ep. 3 with some really cool plot twist.
Remember how Yoda says there are always two, a master and a student? So, Darth Maul was Sidious's student, right? Well, Count Dooku is too powerful to be a student, so who is Dooku's student? I figure Sidious is like Yoda and Dooku is like Mace Windu or one of the other members of the Jedi Council. Could set-up a huge Sith vs. Jedi lightsaber battle which would be awesome. Big difference between a hundred Jedi charging at droids and a huge lightsaber battle. But, then all the Sith need to die at the end of the 3rd movie too. Except for Palpatine and Vader of course.
I'll probably have more thoughts later.
Edited By Arthur Dent on May 27 2002 at 09:44
First, even Lucas admits he can't write diologue for shit. He's "a visual director. The story rests with the visuals, not the dialogue." That's a direct quote. What the actors were able to accomplish with some really lousy dialogue was great.
Also, Lucas had a co-writer on this script and it really shows. Much better written than Ep. 1
Yoda was awesome. I was wondering why he didn't throw that huge column and Dooku's ship, then they showed the strain on his face and you could tell he couldn't do it. Remember, the guys only about 20 years away from dieing of old age. For a 900 year old guy, that's pretty soon.
Now, the whole Anakin wiping out the Sandpeople tribe was a bit troublesome. Why didn't that push him over to the dark side? I think it's because he was in extreme pain, but not anger. He was in too much pain to be angry. He wasn't fully concious of what he was doing when he did it. And Amadala's lack of reaction was troubling. She should have at least been shocked or upset. Instead she just hugs him and forgets about it in the next scene. Maybe, in the next film they'll show he used a jedi mind trick to make her forget. It would make sense and be another step to the dark side.
I was impressed that Lucas was able to surprise me by having the Jedi lead the clone troops into battle. I always thought it would be Palpatine leading the clones from the very beginning. Nice touch having the Jedi hand him the weapon that will probably lead to their distruction.
I actually liked the CGI effects for the most part. I thought Coruscant was really sold as a city planet with different types of areas. The nice clean upper reaches for the diplomats, the seedy Times Square area, the heavy industrial area, the shots from space. And the aliens were much more seamless than ever before. hell, my biggest worry was that Yoda would look like shit in CGI, but it really looked like a moving Muppet.
And the ships really had a classic feel to them. Like they were inspired by 1960's cars and trucks.
I really loved the idea that the reason Boba Fett will join forces with Vader is because he watched his "father" killed at the hands of a Jedi. Really gives that personal vendetta feel to Ep. 2 and 3.
One other problem I had was the fact that Obi Wan cut off the woman assasin's hand, but they never showed it. It was implied by the fact that she was in shock and cradling her arm, but they never showed the stump and the gun and hand were gone so fast you couldn't really tell.
For those who like to nitpick flaws, in the scene where Yoda is teaching the kids how to use a lightsaber, look at the kid on the far right. When they lift their helmets, his is the only lightsaber that is OFF the whole time.
Potential Spoiler
<font color=white> I saw a behind the scenes show this weekend. They were interviewing Lucas in the African dessert as he filmed the Tatooine scenes for Ep. 2 and they asked him "Why are you filming a scene for Ep. 3 now?" Well, Lucas' cryptic answer was they only needed ONE shot for Ep. 3 filmed there and it would be a waste to come back again for just one scene. Anybody who's a fan can guess what that one scene HAS to be!</font>
Edit - Somebody mentioned not liking seeing Jengo Fett's face. I think seeing that he was a normal human and then seeing him almost beat Obi Wan in one-to-one combat and then kill at least one Jedi during the final battle made him even more of a bad ass.
One thing, was anybody else considering the possibility that Darth Sidious wasn't Palpatine? During Ep. 1 I was considering the possibility that Sidious and Palpatine are rivals or that Plapatine wasn't a Sith yet. But, after Ep. 2 I'm almost positive Palpatine is Sidious. There's always a possibility Lucas is going to surprise us in Ep. 3 with some really cool plot twist.
Remember how Yoda says there are always two, a master and a student? So, Darth Maul was Sidious's student, right? Well, Count Dooku is too powerful to be a student, so who is Dooku's student? I figure Sidious is like Yoda and Dooku is like Mace Windu or one of the other members of the Jedi Council. Could set-up a huge Sith vs. Jedi lightsaber battle which would be awesome. Big difference between a hundred Jedi charging at droids and a huge lightsaber battle. But, then all the Sith need to die at the end of the 3rd movie too. Except for Palpatine and Vader of course.
I'll probably have more thoughts later.
Edited By Arthur Dent on May 27 2002 at 09:44
05-27-2002, 01:01 PM
it was ok. episode I made me wanna puke. episode II was mediorce at best but still much better than episode I.
it does kind of explain alot of things like what was mentioned above.
yoda did rock!!!
and it was very amusing seeing lil' boba fett holding his father's (his source of DNA's) head. how fucking funny was that?
it does kind of explain alot of things like what was mentioned above.
yoda did rock!!!
and it was very amusing seeing lil' boba fett holding his father's (his source of DNA's) head. how fucking funny was that?
05-29-2002, 06:32 AM
The horror, the horror. He's messing with the holy trillogy AGAIN!!!
Lucas on Original Star Wars Trilogy DVDs
Monday, May 27, 2002 12:11 CDT
The latest issue of Star Wars Insider included an interview with George Lucas about the long-awaited DVD. Lucas was asked if there's a possibility of including the original versions (Episodes IV-VI on DVD) as alternate tracks, to show the evolution of the films, showcase the state-of-the-art of the era, and preserve film history.
Lucas said simply "I don't think so. I think of the film as the Special Edition, I don't think of it as the early version, any more than I would put early rough cuts on. I could put four or five rough cuts onto the thing and say, 'This is how it advanced.' I consider the Special Edition as being the final version at this point. I don't even worry about the other ones, because it went through a lot of incarnations to get to the final stage."
Meanwhile, Dark Horizons reports that Lucas spoke with E! News Daily where he was asked the question of why C-3PO doesn't recognize Vader.
"Well, one, his brains have, his memory system has been erased and so has R2's. So, they don't remember anything from the first trilogy. I'm telling you something from Episode 3, but I shouldn't be telling you that, but I think most of the fans already know that".
He also told MTV that Natalie Portman has signed on to be a part of the new scenes being filmed for Star Wars: Episode VI: Return of the Jedi. She'll shoot scenes during the production of Episode III.
Lucas on Original Star Wars Trilogy DVDs
Monday, May 27, 2002 12:11 CDT
The latest issue of Star Wars Insider included an interview with George Lucas about the long-awaited DVD. Lucas was asked if there's a possibility of including the original versions (Episodes IV-VI on DVD) as alternate tracks, to show the evolution of the films, showcase the state-of-the-art of the era, and preserve film history.
Lucas said simply "I don't think so. I think of the film as the Special Edition, I don't think of it as the early version, any more than I would put early rough cuts on. I could put four or five rough cuts onto the thing and say, 'This is how it advanced.' I consider the Special Edition as being the final version at this point. I don't even worry about the other ones, because it went through a lot of incarnations to get to the final stage."
Meanwhile, Dark Horizons reports that Lucas spoke with E! News Daily where he was asked the question of why C-3PO doesn't recognize Vader.
"Well, one, his brains have, his memory system has been erased and so has R2's. So, they don't remember anything from the first trilogy. I'm telling you something from Episode 3, but I shouldn't be telling you that, but I think most of the fans already know that".
He also told MTV that Natalie Portman has signed on to be a part of the new scenes being filmed for Star Wars: Episode VI: Return of the Jedi. She'll shoot scenes during the production of Episode III.
05-29-2002, 09:22 AM
I find Lucas' attitude toward the original trilogy to be really disturbing. He and Spielberg must be getting tainted pot from the same source (E.T. anyone?).
Not to mention that he doesn't want to release the trilogy on DVD for six years according to one article I read. Talk of putting Jimmy Smit's as Bail Organa into a scene in ANH, more re-edits, etc. If they make Amidalla a blue ghost during the Ewok party, then Lucas should be shot on sight.
It's nice to be able to go back and re-edit a film, but the original version should be released too. I mean, the special edition isn't the same film I saw as a kid!
The next thing you know, he'll CGI Mark Hammil, Carry Fisher and the gang and do a 100% CGI sequel trilogy!
Not to mention that he doesn't want to release the trilogy on DVD for six years according to one article I read. Talk of putting Jimmy Smit's as Bail Organa into a scene in ANH, more re-edits, etc. If they make Amidalla a blue ghost during the Ewok party, then Lucas should be shot on sight.
It's nice to be able to go back and re-edit a film, but the original version should be released too. I mean, the special edition isn't the same film I saw as a kid!
The next thing you know, he'll CGI Mark Hammil, Carry Fisher and the gang and do a 100% CGI sequel trilogy!
05-30-2002, 04:24 PM
I saw it a couple of weeks ago. I agree with the people that said you don't see SW movies for the acting, but Christensen seemed like he was on downers, or just reading it off screen the whole time. Even when he was "angry" it was just a slightly louder version of his usual montone...
Everything else, the CGI, the Yoda fight....amazing. I'm a little surprised they had Anakin lose an arm in this one, though...I thought he gets messed up completely in the next episode...
Everything else, the CGI, the Yoda fight....amazing. I'm a little surprised they had Anakin lose an arm in this one, though...I thought he gets messed up completely in the next episode...
05-30-2002, 04:33 PM
Quote:Remember how Yoda says there are always two, a master and a student? So, Darth Maul was Sidious's student, right? Well, Count Dooku is too powerful to be a student, so who is Dooku's student?
I thought Yoda was Dooku's master and Dooku was the student? Didn't Yoda say something to the effect that he taught him well?
05-30-2002, 05:17 PM
Quote:I thought Yoda was Dooku's master and Dooku was the student? Didn't Yoda say something to the effect that he taught him well?
Yes but what I think he meant was the Sith relationship-Master/Student thing, not the normal Jedi one.
05-30-2002, 05:18 PM
I just can't wait to see Anakin Vader get his revenge on Dooku. I HOPE they show that.
And still....I'm the only one that thought the Yoda scene sucked eh? :disappointed:
And still....I'm the only one that thought the Yoda scene sucked eh? :disappointed:
05-30-2002, 05:41 PM
...still haven't seen it.... :-o :-o :-o 
05-30-2002, 06:52 PM
Quote:Yes but what I think he meant was the Sith relationship-Master/Student thing, not the normal Jedi one.
Excuse my ignorance, but whats the difference? Are you saying they can't be since one is Jedi and the other is Sith. Weren't all Sith Jedi once? Where can I learn the basic history of the whole thing?
05-30-2002, 07:17 PM
the movie was ok, a little on the long side, but watchable.
did anyone else think that anakin looked exactly like froy??
yoda rules! i thought the fight scene between yoda and dooku was like ninja turtles, splinter vs. shredder.
did anyone else think that anakin looked exactly like froy??
yoda rules! i thought the fight scene between yoda and dooku was like ninja turtles, splinter vs. shredder.
05-30-2002, 07:26 PM
Quote:Excuse my ignorance, but whats the difference? Are you saying they can't be since one is Jedi and the other is Sith. Weren't all Sith Jedi once? Where can I learn the basic history of the whole thing?Contacting fbd, you're needed.
Another thing I just thought of is that the current trilogy has had no memorable ships like an X-Wing or a Falcon.