Quote:when you're married you promise loyalty before god too
only if you have a religious wedding
Quote:loyalty to the country which we all seem to be in agreement that the majority of the time
you dont have to agree with your nation all of the time, but you should have loyalty all of the time not a majority of the time
Quote:you dont have to agree with your nation all of the time, but you should have loyalty all of the time not a majority of the time
Bravo Arpi, bravo!
Quote:Bravo Arpi, bravo!
now i am scared
Quote:you dont have to agree with your nation all of the time, but you should have loyalty all of the time not a majority of the time
Ya took me out of context, but I agree with you as well.
Quote:Ya took me out of context,
i just reread it and you are right. i did take it out of context. sorry.the use of a comma or two would help this situation:thumbs-up:
Quote:the use of a comma or two would help this situation
True..but I have to type, post and hide the board before someone peers over my cubicle wall and sees me not working. You did make a really good point regardless.
Quote:True..but I have to type, post and hide the board before someone peers over my cubicle wall and sees me not working
i get on my knees and give thanks every day to the employment gods that i dont have a "normal " job
If you want to see people take a pledge with feeling, watch some soldiers just out of bootcamp take their oath of service. After 13 weeks of hell in bootcamp, you can see the pride in their eyes.
Or watch some immigrants take their citizenship oath after going to night classes and taking a test to get in.
The Pledge of Allegiance is just a bunch of words taught at the same time as the alphabet song and recited with the same feeling.
I'm just a cynic. To me, words are all bullshit and only actions matter. If we ended up in WWIII, I'd be on the front line.
i think the whole pledge thing is a tool of ZOG in order to control us and make thier jobs easier.
I'm Catholic and since I don't believe in the physical manisfatation of the devil, rather "the devil" is the personification of animal instincts in human, there is a line that I don't recite in some ceremony. Why not just abstain from saying "under God" if it is not in line with your beliefs. I am sure that there are a bunch of Southerners who are mum during the "one nation" portion.
Quote:Why not just abstain from saying "under God" if it is not in line with your beliefs.
why fake it just to fit in?seems hypocritical to me. if you have problem with the pledge, dont say it.
Great now Jerry Falwell can take a break from penetrating small children. Now he can mind fuck all of us on TV with his usual mindless banter.
Ones pride in their country should not be used an excuse to force religion upon them, nuff said.
Even though they ruled the "under god" part unconstitutional only it's still probably going to be overturned by the Supreme Court.
can we replace it with "one nation under IBM, Microsoft, and Viacom" ?
Or One Nation under Jebus.
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the pledge is a crock of shit anyway. someone does not need to recite nationalistic values to be a patriot or for that matter, be a child. And don't give me that "didn't you learn from 9/11" mantra...no state should be putting nationalistic goals upon a child...this is supposed to be a democracy where children are supposed to receive an unfettered education free of corporate whoring, nationalistic dogma or religious values. None of which are supplied, mind you. However, I always found the pledge to be a borish waste. You can't slap patriotism on a child..you can only teach them values. Should they also repeat the ten commandments each day?? Do you think it somehow would be useful...or would they drown it out and ignore it, much like the pledge of allegiance. Patriotism, love for country...is personal...not supplied by the fuckin state.
As for the "God"-word being in it...this country has the stipulation of seperation of church and state. It's the law. The text "In God we trust" and the Pledge of Allegiance both go against that. Either change the law, or have stuff like this come up when it's testing in the federal courts.
But don't give me the "pedge is necessary" line. It's not. Anything forced on you soon loses it's meaning and just becomes empty words. And, look in a classroom one day...look into their eyes as they say it, and you tell me if they are even paying attention. And, yes, even after 9/11.
Edited By Gooch on June 26 2002 at 9:41
i've been away and I had to comment on
Quote:You have no passion or aligance to your nation? Do you need to see September 11th all over again to get a clue. Do you not have any appretiation for the ten's of thousands that died for your freedom? Wanna try life in Iran or Iraq for awhile to maybe get a clue?
The pledge is just a bunch of words you say and you rarely think about what it means. Saying the pledge is the same as saying "Bagel suitcase novel Capricorn coffee" - just random words put together. Seriously, if you tell people that the "under God" was removed how many of them are like "so what does it say now?"
Saying the pledge does not indicate patriotism. It does not indicate love of country. The words you say are not the words you mean, anyone can tell you that. Whether you don't care or your plain lying saying it does not make it true. Saying it does not make you Captain America. "I pledge allegicance to the flag of the united states of America..." is a totally different thing than actually pledging allegiance.
On the same token NOT saying it does not indicate that you hate your country or that you don't appreciate what they did. it does not indicate you are anti-America. It just indicates you don't want to say a stupid little statement. And refusing to say it and not being persecuted for it is some of the good of America.
Thinking that September 11th won't happen again if we don't say these words is the same as thinking we are bad for not saying these words. If we do repeat it and ARE patriotic that will not prevent terrorists from blowing us up. Seeing us united in country will not make their hearts grow three sizes bigger.
Quote:The words you say are not the words you mean,
two-faced dick