War is more than likely a given right now.
But will it just be the US & Iraq? What if Iran decides to join Iraq? What if like the japs in ww2, N. Korea decides to step in? The greatest decider in this to me is China, with 1 in 5 people bein gooks.
Can this escalate in your opinion to the start of WW3? Iraq is not powerful enough and Saddam knows it, what else does he know?
WHOA! you're saying yesterday's rally across the globe had no effect? :-o
Bunch of faggots holding hands across the world? hmmm...
did they have coca-colas?
it was waaaaaay to cold outside to even think about going outside and mocking them.
Come on we can relive the 80's.
Quote:Can this escalate in your opinion to the start of WW3?
Sadly I think its the only place we're heading. North Korea is waiting for a chance to attack or use some form of force, and Iraq though not powerful enough on its own, is going to be able to gather some support from other nations, whether it be in the form of money, or in actual military force. Our allies are deserting us, and I wouldn't put it past the French, Germans or Russians to ignore their obligations to NATO and fight for the wrong side, as it was seen when they refused to protect Turkey against Iraq in the event of a war. Unless something totally unexpected happens, I can't see anything but a WW3 breaking out, and its a scary fucking outcome.
Well I said it numerous times before. At 8:42 EDT, September 11, 2001, WW3 began. Dubya might have a tough time justifying his war, but he will be stupid enough to do it. He can't mobilize these many troops just to bring them home without having a fight. There are other factors that will surface if we start blowing up Iraq. Syria is a force to be reckoned with in the middle east and they do not like the US. Hezbollah has over half a million trained soldiers in Lebanon, waiting to free Palestine and looking for a reason to do it without the US defending Israel. And then North Korea. The big bad north just waiting to pick a fight with us. It will happen.
The way I see it, we have three options:
The "Give Peace a Chance" scenario:
Continue to negotiate with Saddam Hussein and Kim Jong Il, because we can overlook their past deceptions. This allows them to continue the development of their CBRN capabilities and delivery systems, which should lead to the loss of several major US cities sometime in the next ten years, courtesy of either Iraq, Iran or North Korea (No, they are not an axis, they are three seperate threats. Defeating one does not stem the others, with the caveat that Iran would probably not strike if unprovolked by us, at least for now).
The "Compromise"
Attempt to sway the dove countries of Germany (who knew?), France (no suprise there) and Russia (again, who knew?) by instituting a U.N. led coersive inspection regime. This would change the face of the inspections, making them less inspectors and more investigators, so it would require a new mind set at IAEA and UNSCOM. This MIGHT work, if for once the UN didn't fold under pressure, and if the rhetoric could be toned down. Keep in mind that this closes the box around Saadam dangerously tight, you may see UN troops and inspectors killed (conventionally or with CBRN attacks), leading to hostilities.
The "Dubya" approach
Forced regime change by invasion. You all know the story here, so I won't bother with the details.
Which would I like to see? Well, Id LOVE to do some coersive inspections, but I think it will end up not happening. I think the peaceniks are living on another planet - how do you negotiate with a dishonest party?
Meanwhile, I keep my go-bag packed, and await orders.....
.... none of our allies are going to side against us. That would be politically, logically, and galatically stupid. North Korea is NOT waiting to use its weapons, they are bragging about their shit and making us pay attention to them because their country is shit poor and they want money. Iraq, they haven't done what they needed to do, they've broken their UN treaty, so we'll be going to war with them. I don't see how this will be WW3.... what, US against a gaggle of third world shitty countries? WHOA, better start rationiong my food for our boys....
I dunno if it's just some shitty third world countries. Korea will put up a Hell of a fight if they want. As for Iraq, I'm not sure how that's gonna work out. We'll fuck em up but, it's gonna get ugly. I say let them all be and finish off Bin Laden.
...If Korea bombs us, then they will cease to exist.
If North Korea bombs us, too many of us won't exist, things need to be stopped before they happen. We have to be proactive in certain situations, although not necessarily with military force. Something needs to be done on the North Korean front, and something needs to be done in the Iraq situation soon, because right now all we have are a bunch of troops waiting around for orders being potential targets.
I think if what you all say happens then it'd be WW4 cause the Cold War was WW3 in my opinion. Anyway, we'd take some heavy damage if it became us vs everyone else. But honestly with an air force more powerful than 2/3's of the world's combined and the fact that we have in the past proven that we can fight wars on multiple fronts and come out victorious. I think that this will all blow over or that we'll have another video game war like Desert Storm.
What makes you consider the Cold War WW3?
The cold war essentially began after WW2. The only major political and military powers left after the end of WW2 were the United States and the USSR. Since these 2 were the only major powers and they were at war it is in my opinion a World War. Like for example, in WW2 did Honduras do anything? Yet it was considered a world war because all the major players were involved. The cold war had the major players cause everyone else was too busy trying to rebuild themselves.
Quote:the Cold War was WW3 in my opinion.
The cold war was a war yes but not a world war. Honduras? you're reaching on that one. The major players were basically the whole world sans some places. Japan, germany, italy, britain, america, africa, poland, france, and other countries were involved, thats a world war.
A tactical war and a war of chicken between two countries was not a world war.
But it is exactly that kind of "oh we can kick their asses" attitude that can cause problems. Yeah we can kick iraqs ass, n. koreas ass, iran, libya... but all of them at once with support from Nato nations questionable.
I agree, Gonzo, that we could definatly get our asses kicked. If we end up with our backs against the wall I don't think that we'll go out without taking everyone with us. Nukes will be used if we can't win any other way, and that'll kill us all. It's a very scary thought but I really have a peace about it because I think there's a higher power that won't let that happen.
Quote:I think there's a higher power that won't let that happen.
Where was that higher power on 9/11, or when 50 million died in the last world war? Or in any other tragedy in the past?
I think that 9/11 happened for a reason, just like everything else in this world. Do I wish it hadn't happened? Yes I do, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't supposed to happen. Why was it that so many people didn't go into work on time that day? It's too much coincidence that the number of people that should have died didn't.
As far as these events are concerned, a higher power (I believe in God and I don't want to push that on any of you who don't but hear me out), has given us free will. He won't violate it and since we have free will there will be people who choose to be evil. This is their choice, and God won't violate that. So let them be evil but when God's time has come he will inact his vengence through whichever person or country or whatever he sees fit. But I rest assured that the men of evil in this world will pay for their mistakes one day.
Quote:I think that 9/11 happened for a reason, just like everything else in this world. Do I wish it hadn't happened? Yes I do, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't supposed to happen.
Maybe its because I don't believe in God thats causing me to sit here and shake my head in disgust, but in a way you sound just like a terrorist on a mission "from God, doing what is his will." To say and act of such brutality was the will of God, is sickening. I can understand finding comfort in God, saying that the people who died in the attacks were "greeted and cared for by God," etc. but to say that this was intended just seems insane to me.
As for the U.S. acting alone, I don't doubt for a second that we would act alone if indeed we felt we had to. The fact of the matter is, no matter what happens, Britain will remain our ally, and they remain key in diplomatic relations with other European nations. The fact that NATO finally agreed to protect Turkey in the event of a war today is a good sign that if the shit does hit the fan, that our allies will be with us, regardless of how against certain aspects they may be.
Honestly, part of me doesn't even care what happens as long as all of our troops come home in one piece.
Edited By PollyannaFlower46 on 1045456930