They didnt, they had their own private ceremony on the bridge, hence why I said they had it right.
fuck the goverment, fuck their unions and licenses, and fuck the religions.
Just make vows to yourselves, it's more of a bond than any chruch or piece of paper and its cheaper.
Then go off on a mass murder spree and shoot an indian.
The Sleeper Wrote:HedCold Wrote:usually a church will only marry you if you are part of the parish, or if you set up something with them for special reasons. but i think you have to prove at least one of is a practicing catholic (this is judgemental based on the feelings of the priest at the church agreeing to it), and say that the family is going to be raised that way
then they should get no governmental benefits because they are discriminating who they can marry (which is recognized by the government) based on religion. Can't you see that this is a clear violation of separation of church and state?
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
It's on the front page.
They can't make a law that tells Catholics what to believe in.
If you make your own ceremony, you lose out on a lot of privileges that others get.
fuck the privilidges, you get to drown rodney dangerfield in a fish tank.
That sounds like a bonus, but good health care coverage sounds better in my book.
The Jays Wrote:The Sleeper Wrote:HedCold Wrote:usually a church will only marry you if you are part of the parish, or if you set up something with them for special reasons. but i think you have to prove at least one of is a practicing catholic (this is judgemental based on the feelings of the priest at the church agreeing to it), and say that the family is going to be raised that way
then they should get no governmental benefits because they are discriminating who they can marry (which is recognized by the government) based on religion. Can't you see that this is a clear violation of separation of church and state?
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
It's on the front page.
They can't make a law that tells Catholics what to believe in.
nowhere am i saying that the goverment should change what catholics can do. either you are misunderstanding my points or I am not making myself clear. Like I said, let them have their marriage, then make them perform a completely separate ceremony that is governmentally recognized.
It's like that twilight zone episode with jack klugman where he challanges "fats" to a pool game and when he finally wins he finds out he has to take over fats spot and challange everyone who calls him out to a game till someone beats him.
Sleeper has taken my place arguing with jays.
Let me be the first to admit that I didn't read the whole thread...I just jumped in at the end.
I must say this was one of the most enjoyable yet stressful threads of all time, I enjoyed it quite immensely.
The Sleeper Wrote:The Jays Wrote:The Sleeper Wrote:HedCold Wrote:usually a church will only marry you if you are part of the parish, or if you set up something with them for special reasons. but i think you have to prove at least one of is a practicing catholic (this is judgemental based on the feelings of the priest at the church agreeing to it), and say that the family is going to be raised that way
then they should get no governmental benefits because they are discriminating who they can marry (which is recognized by the government) based on religion. Can't you see that this is a clear violation of separation of church and state?
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
It's on the front page.
They can't make a law that tells Catholics what to believe in.
nowhere am i saying that the goverment should change what catholics can do. either you are misunderstanding my points or I am not making myself clear. Like I said, let them have their marriage, then make them perform a completely separate ceremony that is governmentally recognized.
They still cannot have their marriage ceremony done in a Catholic Church. You started off by saying that the Catholic Church should be forced to do the ceremony if that's what the gay couple wants.
Quote:Getting Married in New York State
The Marriage License
Where do you get one?
A couple who intends to be married in New York State must apply in person for a marriage license to any town or city clerk in the state. The application for a license must be signed by both the bride and groom in the presence of the town or city clerk. A representative cannot apply for the license on behalf of the bride or groom. This applies even if the representative has been given the Power of Attorney. Notarized marriage license affidavits signed by the bride or groom cannot be substituted for their personal appearance.
Is there a waiting period?
Yes. Although the marriage license is issued immediately, the marriage ceremony may not take place within 24 hours from the exact time that the license was issued. When both applicants are 16 years of age or older, the 24-hour waiting period may be waived by an order of a justice of the Supreme Court or a judge of the County Court of the county in which either the bride or groom resides. If either person is under 16 years of age, the order must be from the Family Court judge of the county in which the person under 16 years of age resides.
How long is the license valid?
A marriage license is valid for 60 days, beginning the day after it is issued.
How much does it cost?
If the marriage license is issued by a town or city clerk in New York State outside of New York City, it costs $40. This fee includes the issuance of a Certificate of Marriage Registration. This certificate is automatically sent by the issuing clerk to the applicants within 15 days after the completed license is returned by the officiant (person who performs the marriage ceremony). It serves as notice that a record of the marriage is on file. Couples who do not receive a Certificate of Marriage Registration within four weeks of the wedding should contact the town or city clerk who issued the license.
If the license is to be issued by the City Clerk of the City of New York, please contact the office of the City Clerk of the City of New York for current fees. The City Clerk's Office can be reached at (212) 669-2400 or via their website at <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.nycmarriagebureau.com">http://www.nycmarriagebureau.com</a><!-- w -->
Is a premarital physical exam required?
No premarital examination or blood test is required to obtain a marriage license in New York State.
What are the age and consent requirements for minors?
If either applicant is under 14 years of age, a marriage license cannot be issued.
If either applicant is 14 or 15 years of age, such applicant(s) must present the written consent of both parents and a justice of the Supreme Court or a judge of the Family Court having jurisdiction over the town or city in which the application is made.
If either applicant is 16 or 17 years of age, such applicant(s) must present the written consent of both parents.
If both applicants are 18 years of age or older, no consents are required.
One parent alone may consent to a minor's marriage if:
The other parent has been missing for one year preceding the application;
The parents are divorced and the consenting parent was given sole custody of the child when the divorce decree was awarded;
The other parent has been judged incompetent; or the other parent is deceased.
Parents, guardians or other people consenting to the marriage of a minor must personally appear and acknowledge or execute their consent before the town or city clerk or some other authorized official. If the notarized affidavit is made before an official outside of the State of New York, it must be accompanied by a certificate of authentication when the consent is filed in New York State.
Proof of Age and Identity
A person is required to establish proof of age and identity by submitting to the issuing clerk:
One of the following age related documents:
Birth Certificate
Baptismal record
Naturalization record
Census record
And one of the following identity related documents:
Driver's license
Passport
Employment picture ID
Immigration record
Familial Restrictions
A marriage may not take place in New York State between an ancestor and descendant, a brother and sister (full or half blood), an uncle and niece or an aunt and nephew, regardless of whether or not these persons are legitimate or illegitimate offspring.
Previous Marriages
Information regarding previous marriages must be furnished in the application for a marriage license. This includes whether the former spouse or spouses are living, and whether the applicants are divorced and, if so, when, where and against whom the divorce or divorces were granted. A certified copy of the Decree of Divorce or a Certificate of Dissolution of Marriage may be required by the clerk issuing the marriage license.
Surname Options
Every person has the right to adopt any name by which he or she wishes to be known simply by using that name consistently and without intent to defraud. A person's last name (surname) does not automatically change upon marriage, and neither party to the marriage is required to change his or her last name. The bride and groom need not take the same last name.
One or both parties to a marriage may elect to change the surname by which he or she wishes to be known after the marriage by entering the new name in the appropriate space provided on the marriage license. The new name must consist of one of the following options:
the surname of the other spouse;
any former surname of either spouse;
a name combining into a single surname all or a segment of the premarriage surname or any former surname of each spouse;
a combination name separated by a hyphen, provided that each part of such combination surname is the premarriage surname, or any former surname, of each of the spouses.
The use of this option will provide a record of your change of name. The marriage certificate, containing the new name, if any, is proof that the use of the new name, or the retention of the former name, is lawful. The local Social Security Administration office should be contacted so that its records and your social security identification card reflect the name change. There is no charge for this service.
Whether you decide to use or not use this option at the time of your marriage license application, you still have the right to adopt a different name through usage at some future date. However, your marriage license cannot be changed to record a surname you decide to use after your marriage.
Where can a marriage take place?
A New York State marriage license may be used within New York State only. Please note that if you go out of New York State to be married, your New York State marriage license will not be filed in New York State.
What about the ceremony?
There is no particular form or ceremony required except that the parties must state in the presence of an authorized member of the clergy or public official and at least one other witness that they take each other as husband and wife. There is no minimum age for a witness. However, in selecting a witness, choose at least one person who you feel would be competent to testify in a court proceeding as to what he or she witnessed.
Who can perform a marriage ceremony?
To be valid, a marriage ceremony must be performed by any of the individuals specified in Section 11 of the New York State Domestic Relations Law. These include:
the mayor of a city or village;
the city clerk or one of the deputy city clerks of a city of more than one million inhabitants;
a marriage officer appointed by the town or village board or the city common council;
a justice or judge of the following courts: the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, the U.S. District Courts for the Northern, Southern, Eastern or Western Districts of New York, the NYS Court of Appeals, the Appellate Division of the NYS Supreme Court, the NYS Supreme Court, the Court of Claims, the Family Court, a Surrogates Court, the Civil and Criminal Courts of New York City (including Housing judges of the Civil Court) and other courts of record;
a village, town or county justice;
a member of the clergy or minister who has been officially ordained and granted authority to perform marriage ceremonies from a governing church body in accordance with the rules and regulations of the church body;
a member of the clergy or minister who is not authorized by a governing church body but who has been chosen by a spiritual group to preside over their spiritual affairs;
other officiants as specified by Section 11 of the Domestic Relations Law.
The person performing the ceremony must be registered with the City of New York in order to perform a ceremony within the New York City limits. The officiant does not have to be a resident of New York State. Ship captains are not authorized to perform marriage ceremonies in New York State.
you don't honestly expect anyone to read all that, do you?
In a perfect world, yes they should
In our current society, yes they should if marriage is governmentally recognized
since like you said, governments can't force the church to do anything, governments should not have anything to do with the concept of marriage
am i still not clear?
It's there as a reference.
Sleeper, you said this.
Quote:well I think the church should be forced to. The fact that they probably won't like it shows the inherent problem with marriage and religion.
No one can force a Catholic priest to perform a gay marriage.
Alright, let's let bigots perform governmental functions then.
The Sleeper Wrote:In a perfect world, yes they should
In our current society, yes they should if marriage is governmentally recognized
since like you said, governments can't force the church to do anything, governments should not have anything to do with the concept of marriage
am i still not clear?
There are two different parts to a marriage for Catholic residents of the State of New York.
There is the State of New York recognizing the union between two people. And then there is the Catholic Church recognizing the union between two people.
In order for the Catholic Church to recognize it, the ceremony must be performed in a church, by a Catholic priest, between a Catholic man and woman who have received all the sacraments of baptism, communion, and confirmation.
Quote:There is the State of New York recognizing the union between two people. And then there is the Catholic Church recognizing the union between two people.
I'll quote Splatterpunk from earlier
Quote:Theocracy in Sheep's clothing
The Sleeper Wrote:Alright, let's let bigots perform governmental functions then.
So, would you rather that Catholic marriages be not recognized by the State?
But a catholic priest can force his dick to perform a union with an 8 year olds asshole.
The Sleeper Wrote:Quote:There is the State of New York recognizing the union between two people. And then there is the Catholic Church recognizing the union between two people.
I'll quote Splatterpunk from earlier
Quote:Theocracy in Sheep's clothing
I said that is what it is for Catholics, not for the rest of society. The rest of society only needs the first part.