Black Lazerus Wrote:Hoon Wrote:Gonzo,
No one in the Bush administration said Saddam had links to 9/11. Not once. They said he had links to terrorism.
If people believe they did say that, then they don't pay attention and shouldn't vote.
Hey, I'm a Bush man bit if there is someone out there voting for Bush because they think Saddam was behind 9/11, then I don't want to be identified with them because they're retarded.
Keyser make with the quotes.
I'd love to see them.
Oh, and I can also quote an assload of Democrats who are now against this war but were claiming Saddam and his WMD's were the greatest threat to our nation before and after 9/11.
Hoon Wrote:Black Lazerus Wrote:Hoon Wrote:Gonzo,
No one in the Bush administration said Saddam had links to 9/11. Not once. They said he had links to terrorism.
If people believe they did say that, then they don't pay attention and shouldn't vote.
Hey, I'm a Bush man bit if there is someone out there voting for Bush because they think Saddam was behind 9/11, then I don't want to be identified with them because they're retarded.
Keyser make with the quotes.
I'd love to see them.
Oh, and I can also quote an assload of Democrats who are now against this war but were claiming Saddam and his WMD's were the greatest threat to our nation before and after 9/11.
Shame on us for thinking we could trust our president!!!!
GonzoStyle Wrote:Bush supporters are as fanatic as their leader and just like their leader can never admit to him being able to do any wrong.
So bush didn't go out of his way to say "al-queada" "bin laden" or "9/11" everytime saddam or iraq was mentioned?
He may never have outright said "Saddam was responsible for 9/11" but he damn sure said everything close to it without completely implicating himself, cause just like the threat of saddam hitting us with wmd's, and the stockpiles of nukulur weapons just pointed at us, it was all bullshit. Just as the oil was gonna pay for the war and the war wasn't gonna cost us much money and the oil would pay for the rebuilding, etc etc.
I believe Bush has done wrong and is still doing wrong.
I believe the war was right.
I believe it was Saddams responsibility to prove his weapons program was gone as mandated under the UN.
He didn't because he had Koffi Anan, the UN, France, Germany and Russia in his pocket with the Food For Oil Program Scandal.
He never thought they'd let us invade him.
He kept up the facade to make everyone fear him.
I believe Bush's policies towards the Mexican border are hypocritical to National Security needs. Not that John Kerry would do anything different but I believe that border is a huge hole for terrorists to cross and not to mention the drain on our eceonomy it creates.
As for the oil. I don't remember him saying Iraqi oil would pay for it. I remember him saying it's the Iraqi's oil. For them to do with what they want. If they feel it's right to incur the reconstruction costs then so be it. Anything less WOULD make the "war for oil" cries valid.
But right now, they aren't.
Iraq is a part of the war on terror.
So is the war in Afghanistan, Bin laden, Al Queda etc.
That doesn't mean they're all necessarily tied in together.
Look at Libya and their involvement in the bombing of the Pan Am flight over Lockerbee Scottland.
Because of the war in iraq Khaddafi gave up his nuclear weaponry and let inspectors have free reign of his county.
That's another victory in the war on terror.
But that isn't tieing them to 9/11.
North Korea is in the axis of evil but that doesn't tie them to 9/11.
The closest comparison Bush made between Saddam and Al Queda was that Saddam paid off families of suicide bombers in Hammas. Is it so far fetched to think he'd do the same to groups targeting the United States?
And if so, were you willing to wait until it happened to react?
I think in a post 9/11 world, retalliations are not acceptable.
Black Laz, he is right. Bush said there is no proof connecting Iraq or Saddam to 9/11
however....
Quote:In his appearance Sunday on "Meet the Press," Cheney vigorously defended every aspect of the war, saying the administration's prewar claims about banned weapons held by Iraq would be proved true. He argued that Iraq was the "heart of the base" of the terrorist threat that culminated on Sept. 11. "If we're successful in Iraq then we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11," Cheney said.
Polling experts say the numbers reflect the strong animosity many Americans have felt toward Hussein since the 1991 Persian Gulf War. "The American public has always been prepared to think the worst of Saddam Hussein," said Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press. "They think he's a dangerous guy, and he comes from the Mideast, where the people who are dedicated to hurting us come from, and [their belief that he was behind Sept. 11] is less conviction than, 'Yeah, probably.' "
Asked whether he believed the administration contributed to that perception, Kohut replied: "Well, they didn't have to hint very much to have Americans draw that inference. I don't know if people were already there [in the immediate aftermath of Sept. 11], but they were prepared to go there really quickly."
Though Bush and his top aides did not say directly that Hussein took part in the Sept. 11 attacks, they often combined the two subjects in speeches and interviews leading up to the war. In a key speech in Cincinnati in October, the president said: "We know that Iraq and the Al Qaeda terrorist network share a common enemy ? the United States of America. We know that Iraq and Al Qaeda have had high-level contacts that go back a decade." After Hussein's regime was toppled, Bush reinforced the perception of a link between the two in his May 1 speech aboard an aircraft carrier off San Diego, saying, "We've removed an ally of Al Qaeda."
Critics argue that such juxtapositions encouraged people to tie Hussein to Sept. 11. "It was the close association in the same thought, the same sentence, that led to that incorrect conclusion," said Greg Thielmann, a former senior intelligence official at the State Department who retired last year. "And I think it was done with great skill and deliberation."
GonzoStyle Wrote:Hoon Wrote:Black Lazerus Wrote:Hoon Wrote:Gonzo,
No one in the Bush administration said Saddam had links to 9/11. Not once. They said he had links to terrorism.
If people believe they did say that, then they don't pay attention and shouldn't vote.
Hey, I'm a Bush man bit if there is someone out there voting for Bush because they think Saddam was behind 9/11, then I don't want to be identified with them because they're retarded.
Keyser make with the quotes.
I'd love to see them.
Oh, and I can also quote an assload of Democrats who are now against this war but were claiming Saddam and his WMD's were the greatest threat to our nation before and after 9/11.
Shame on us for thinking we could trust our president!!!!
You are aware John Kerry was part of the Senate Select Comitte on Intelligence and saw the exact same intelligence Bush did, right?
That's why he voted for the war.
But when he had to identify himself with Howard Deans base - he was forced to weakly explain away this vote.
You're also aware that John Kerry was part of a Senatorial terrorism panel immediatley after the 1st WTC bombings in 1993 and didn't attend a meeting for over a year after.
And even voted to cut our intelligence and National Security budgets by billions of dollars after the 1st WTC bombing, right?
Mentioning Saddam and Al Queda in the same speech isn't tieing them together in my opinion.
Anyone who's ever paid the slightest bit of attention to current events know Saddam was not involved in 9/11.
"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."
State of the Union Address 1/28/2003
Zero Chemical Weapons Found, Not a drop of any chemical weapons has been found anywhere in Iraq.
"U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents."
State of the Union Address 1/28/2003
Zero Munitions Found Not a single chemical weapon?s munition has been found anywhere in Iraq
"We have also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas."
State of the Union Address 1/28/2003
Zero Aerial Vehicles Found Not a single aerial vehicle capable of dispersing chemical or biological weapons, has been found anywhere in Iraq
"Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of Al Qaida."
State of the Union Address 1/28/2003
To date, not a shred of evidence connecting Hussein with Al Qaida or any other known terrorist organizations have been revealed.(besides certain Palestinian groups who represent no direct threat to the US)
"Our intelligence sources tell us that he (Saddam) has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production."
State of the Union Address 1/28/200
The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) as well as dozens of leading scientists declared said tubes unsuitable for nuclear weapons production -- months before the war.
"Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at [past nuclear] sites."
Bush speech to the nation 10/7/2002
"Two months of inspections at these former Iraqi nuclear sites found zero evidence of prohibited nuclear activities there"
IAEA report to UN Security Council 1/27/2003
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
State of the Union Address 1/28/2003
The documents implied were known at the time by Bush to be forged and not credible.
"We know he's been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons, and we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
VP Dick Cheney "Meet the Press" 3/16/2003
"The IAEA had found no evidence or plausible indication of the revival of a nuclear weapons program in Iraq."
IAEA report to UN Security Council 3/7/2003
"We gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in."
Bush Press Conference 7/14/2003
UN inspectors went into Iraq to search for possible weapons violations from December 2002 into March 2003
Edited By Keyser Soze on 1098895000
Quote:Thursday, September 18, 2003
Bush: No Iraq link to 9/11 found
President says Saddam had ties to al-Qaida, but apparently not to attacks
By SCOTT SHEPARD
COX NEWS SERVICE
WASHINGTON – President Bush, having repeatedly linked Saddam Hussein to the terrorist organization behind the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, said yesterday there is no evidence that the deposed Iraqi leader had a hand in those attacks, in contrast to the belief of most Americans.
The president's comments came in response to a reporter's question about Vice President Dick Cheney's assertion Sunday on NBC's "Meet The Press" program that Iraq was the "geographic base" of the terrorists behind the attacks on New York and Washington.
Bush said yesterday there was no attempt by the administration to try to confuse people about any link between Saddam and Sept. 11.
"No, we've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the 11th," Bush said. "What the vice president said was is that he (Saddam) has been involved with al-Qaida.
"And al-Zarqawi, an al-Qaida operative, was in Baghdad. He's the guy that ordered the killing of a U.S. diplomat. ... There's no question that Saddam Hussein had al-Qaida ties."
Most of the administration's public assertions have focused on the man Bush mentioned, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a senior Osama bin Laden associate whom officials have accused of trying to train terrorists in the use of poison for possible attacks in Europe, running a terrorist haven in northern Iraq -- an area outside Saddam's control -- and organizing an attack that killed an American aid executive in Jordan last year.
Security analysts, however, say al-Zarqawi made his way to Iraq, where his leg was amputated. . Reports claim he then visited northern Iraq, where a militant Islamic group affiliated with al-Qaida is encamped not far from the border with Iran.
Bush's statement was the latest in a series by administration officials this week that appeared to distance the White House from the widely held public perception that Saddam was a key figure in the attacks.
Publicly, at least, Bush has not explicitly blamed the attacks on Saddam. In speech after speech, however, the president has strongly linked Saddam and al-Qaida, the terrorist organization of bin Laden, the renegade Saudi whose followers hijacked jetliners and crashed them into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and rural Pennsylvania.
i already proved your point for you.
"This is a man that we know has had connections with al Qaeda. This is a man who, in my judgment, would like to use al Qaeda as a forward army." -- President Bush, Oct. 14, 2002
"Yes, there is a linkage between al Qaeda and Iraq." -- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Sept. 26, 2002
"Some people say, 'Oh, we must leave Saddam alone, otherwise, if we did something against him, he might attack us.' Well, if we don't do something he might attack us, and he might attack us with a more serious weapon. The man is a threat... He's a threat because he is dealing with al Qaeda... And we're going to deal with him." -- George W. Bush (11/7/2002)
"There have been contacts between senior Iraqi officials and members of al Qaeda going back for actually quite a long time." -- National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice, Sept. 25, 2002
"The war on terror, you can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror. And so it's a comparison that is -- I can't make because I can't distinguish between the two, because they're both equally as bad, and equally as evil, and equally as destructive." -- George W. Bush (9/25/2002)
"So, yes, there are contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda. We know that Saddam Hussein has a long history with terrorism in general. And there are some al Qaeda personnel who found refuge in Baghdad...There clearly are contacts between al Qaeda and Iraq that can be documented." -- Condoleeza Rice, US National Security Advisor (9/26/2002)
"Iraq and al Qaeda have discussed safe haven opportunities in Iraq, reciprocal nonaggression discussions. We have what we consider to be credible evidence that al Qaeda leaders have sought contacts in Iraq who could help them acquire weapons of mass destruction capabilities." --Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense (9/27/2002)
"We've learned that Iraq has trained al Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases." --George W. Bush (10/7/2002)
"He's got connections with al Qaeda." --George W. Bush (10/28/2002)
"We need to think about Saddam Hussein using al Qaeda to do his dirty work, to not leave fingerprints behind." --George W. Bush (10/14/2002)
"... in terms of its [Iraq's] support for terrorism, we have established that Iraq has permitted Al-Qaeda to operate within its territory. As the President said recently, "The regime has long-standing and continuing ties to terrorist organizations. And there are Al-Qaeda terrorists inside Iraq." The President has made his position on Iraq eminently clear, and in the coming weeks and months we shall see what we shall see." -- John Bolton, Undersecretary of State for Arms Control (11/1/2002)
"And, not only that, he is -- would like nothing better than to hook-up with one of these shadowy terrorist networks like al Qaeda, provide some weapons and training to them, let them come and do his dirty work, and we wouldn't be able to see his fingerprints on his action." --George W. Bush (11/3/2002)
"This is a man who has had al Qaeda connections." -- George W. Bush (11/4/2002)
Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications, and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al Qaeda. -- George W. Bush, State of the Union Speech (1/28/2003)
If you're going to claim Republicans and the administration "miseld" us..
Then I am curious to know if you afford Democrats the same blame?
Specifically, these Democrats..
JANUARY 30, 2004
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003 | Source
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002 | Source
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998 | Source
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 | Source
"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998 | Source
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998 | Source
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998 | Source
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998 | Source
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999 | Source
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002 | Source
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 | Source
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 | Source
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002 | Source
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002 | Source
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002 | Source
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002 | Source
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002 | Source
Hoon Wrote:Quote:Thursday, September 18, 2003
Bush: No Iraq link to 9/11 found
President says Saddam had ties to al-Qaida, but apparently not to attacks
By SCOTT SHEPARD
COX NEWS SERVICE
WASHINGTON – President Bush, having repeatedly linked Saddam Hussein to the terrorist organization behind the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, said yesterday there is no evidence that the deposed Iraqi leader had a hand in those attacks, in contrast to the belief of most Americans.
The president's comments came in response to a reporter's question about Vice President Dick Cheney's assertion Sunday on NBC's "Meet The Press" program that Iraq was the "geographic base" of the terrorists behind the attacks on New York and Washington.
Bush said yesterday there was no attempt by the administration to try to confuse people about any link between Saddam and Sept. 11.
"No, we've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the 11th," Bush said. "What the vice president said was is that he (Saddam) has been involved with al-Qaida.
"And al-Zarqawi, an al-Qaida operative, was in Baghdad. He's the guy that ordered the killing of a U.S. diplomat. ... There's no question that Saddam Hussein had al-Qaida ties."
Most of the administration's public assertions have focused on the man Bush mentioned, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a senior Osama bin Laden associate whom officials have accused of trying to train terrorists in the use of poison for possible attacks in Europe, running a terrorist haven in northern Iraq -- an area outside Saddam's control -- and organizing an attack that killed an American aid executive in Jordan last year.
Security analysts, however, say al-Zarqawi made his way to Iraq, where his leg was amputated. . Reports claim he then visited northern Iraq, where a militant Islamic group affiliated with al-Qaida is encamped not far from the border with Iran.
Bush's statement was the latest in a series by administration officials this week that appeared to distance the White House from the widely held public perception that Saddam was a key figure in the attacks.
Publicly, at least, Bush has not explicitly blamed the attacks on Saddam. In speech after speech, however, the president has strongly linked Saddam and al-Qaida, the terrorist organization of bin Laden, the renegade Saudi whose followers hijacked jetliners and crashed them into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and rural Pennsylvania.
All of the quotes I posted are from 2002 before the war started, it was only after the war started in 2003 that they began saying "we never said that".
GonzoStyle Wrote:All of the quotes I posted are from 2002 before the war started, it was only after the war started in 2003 that they began saying "we never said that".
...And many of mine are from before the war - from Democrats.
Are they backpedaling or just doing what seems popular?
Edited By Hoon on 1098895626
they're both backpedders.
difference is, your guy was in charge. he made the call. kerry admits his mistake while george continues to arrogantly plod ahead as the death toll rises.
Hoon Wrote:GonzoStyle Wrote:All of the quotes I posted are from 2002 before the war started, it was only after the war started in 2003 that they began saying "we never said that".
...And many of mine are from before the war - from Democrats.
Are they backpedaling or just doing what seems popular?
So i guess again you will play the 2 wrongs make it ok rule.
But tommy said so!!!
Just admit there was a mistake made already, if you were so hell bent on liberating the iraqui people it shoulda been done in 91.
Clinton was in charge when terrorists living in our country under his nose were learning to navigate planes w/o worrying about landing them.
Clinton let Bin Laden go when the Sudanese offered him up.
I haven't heard him apologize for 9/11.
And I may be wrong but I have yet to hear Kerry apologize for voting for the war. And is Kerry not en elected leader who was privy to the intel? Should we not trust him too?
If he felt then the way he does now, he should've stood up and spoke out then. He didn't and it had nothing to do with believeing our President.
It's astonishes me that people are so willing to let others off the hook and hang this squarley on the shoulders of one man. It's insane.
Kerry voted for the use of force as a last resort, not the only resort. He only voted against it when he saw that Bush was hellbent on war.
Hoon Wrote:Clinton was in charge when terrorists living in our country under his nose were learning to navigate planes w/o worrying about landing them.
Clinton let Bin Laden go when the Sudanese offered him up.
I haven't heard him apologize for 9/11.
And I may be wrong but I have yet to hear Kerry apologize for voting for the war. And is Kerry not en elected leader who was privy to the intel? Should we not trust him too?
If he felt then the way he does now, he should've stood up and spoke out then. He didn't and it had nothing to do with believeing our President.
It's astonishes me that people are so willing to let others off the hook and hang this squarley on the shoulders of one man. It's insane.
"others" are not the president.
GonzoStyle Wrote:Kerry voted for the use of force as a last resort, not the only resort. He only voted against it when he saw that Bush was hellbent on war.
That's what he says now because he HAS to Gonz.
Don't you understand that?
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003 | Source