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new orleans - Printable Version +- CDIH (https://www.cdih.net/cdih) +-- Forum: General Discussion and Entertainment (https://www.cdih.net/cdih/forumdisplay.php?fid=4) +--- Forum: The Pit (https://www.cdih.net/cdih/forumdisplay.php?fid=9) +--- Thread: new orleans (/showthread.php?tid=10533) |
- The Jays - 09-05-2005 According to a senior White House official, it seems it took ONE WEEK to process. Quote:Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday. - The Jays - 09-05-2005 from AP Quote:Newsview: Rhetoric Not Matching in Relief - The Jays - 09-06-2005 Ladies and gentlemen, Keith Olberman. Quote:This is not typically a newscast of commentary. I can recall only twice previously offering such perspectives, but something that Homeland Security Chertoff said at his news conference Saturday made this necessary.<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://media.putfile.com/OlbermannSwings">http://media.putfile.com/OlbermannSwings</a><!-- m --> - Sir O - 09-06-2005 It's been a week...I still can't fucking believe this shit is happening in America. I gave $250 and a pint of my own blood yesterday and I still feel like I haven't done shit...people are still dying and I'm up here in NJ with my electricity and phone and all... I'm starting to understand what it is to be not just an American, but a human. We help out those under us because it makes us all stronger in the end. It's so fucking simple. Why is anyone in NO left with no food and water? For whatever reason, it's unacceptable. We're a better country than that. That should be our motto, our goal: "We're a better country than that!" Because we are, and seeing fucking people dying of starvation should not happen in America. Fuck yeah! I talked to my father, my co-worker, and my landlord - all Vietnam vets - and they all agreed that this is the worst thing America has seen. Worst attack - natural or human - worse than Pearl Harbor or 9/11. And still people are being rescued. In America. Why? - The Jays - 09-06-2005 How can we have government at all when they have forgotten why we have governments to begin with? Government to Bush is nothing more than Karl Rove standing next to him with the schedule. - HedCold - 09-06-2005 haliburton got the contract to clean up new orleans and i guess the surrounding areas - The Jays - 09-06-2005 well of ocurse, they're the only people who know how to rebuild stuff they've let get detroyed - Arpikarhu - 09-06-2005 because new orleans is all halliburton's fault. right? right? - Mad - 09-06-2005 The Big Easy has always been spook central (as in spys, not the colored kind) doesn't really surprise me of how those thieves get no bid contracts and end up over billing the shit out of them. - Galt - 09-06-2005 I still say, yes absolutely the federal government dropped the ball with funding, focusing too much training to emergency personnel on terrorism vs. anything else, depleting all resources by pushing them overseas, and just being generally incompetant. Granted. No question. No defense. But I think the local governments are getting way too much of a pass here. As was mentioned, I think the first line of work for any type of thing like this should belong to the city, state, fed, in that order. And that's why when 9/11 came along, Guiliani was treated as a God, with Pataki as well. The senators and President got their camera time, but it was clearly Rudy and Pataki that made things happen so efficiently and effectively (and yes, NY has a lot more money both in their own right and from the government; the disaster didn't cover hundreds of acres and millions of gallons of pollution, yes; the cleanup was easier, but the work was clearly done by the locality, not the federal government.) And the fact that New Orleans didn't have a solid evacuation plan in place really doesn't fall at the feet of the federal government and really made everything infinitely more horrible. Looking at those hundreds of city buses underwater and knowing that the Mayor did not include ANY public transportation methods of evacuation, I'd say is the #1 reason so many people died. Anything else that occured after that, was augmented by the amount of people who were still there. From what I saw over the weekend, it was mostly the poor who had no money or no method to leave that ended up staying and dying. Surely there had to be some way to help them leave. And I don't want to come across like so many of the other Monday Morning QBs who act like you can just snap your fingers and move billions of dollars of funding and thousands of people into action on a whim, but the buses were there. They couldn't have gotten at least a few of them some gas and some drivers, schedule a few pickups and get people out of dodge? And I still am baffled by Hedcold's comment about why the hell the evacuation could only use the outbound lanes of traffic. Surely no one was coming IN to New Orleans. I'm sure there's some reason, but I just don't get it. - The Sleeper - 09-06-2005 they did open up all of the lanes to get out. and i agree that this was a catastrophic failure by all levels of government - Galt - 09-06-2005 I know I saw some pictures where one side of the highway was empty and the other was completely filled. As did Hedcold, which is the first comment in the thread. I'm sure there had to be some other reason that makes more sense than Arpi's retort, but I have no idea why they would have done this. It's like the "well the buses would have weighed too much and we didn't have people with those licenses, so it would be illegal" as the reason why they didn't use the buses to evacuate people. I pray that wasn't the reason, and there was a real reason having to do with fuel or drivers or routes or something, because if it truly was "it would have been breaking the rules" then holy shit, that's just retarded. - Mad - 09-06-2005 Some 17 year old colored kid stole a school bus and loaded it up with a bunch of people. He didn't know how to drive it and everyone chipped in for gas. They all made it to Texas and some news twat is calling him a hero because of it, seems like charges should be filed, but they won't be. The Mayor of NO should be hung out to dry, same with the Governor for their complete lack of leadership in a time of crisis. - The Jays - 09-07-2005 Galt Wrote:It's like the "well the buses would have weighed too much and we didn't have people with those licenses, so it would be illegal" as the reason why they didn't use the buses to evacuate people. I pray that wasn't the reason, and there was a real reason having to do with fuel or drivers or routes or something, because if it truly was "it would have been breaking the rules" then holy shit, that's just retarded.Dude, it's not a matter of illegal, it's a matter of fucking physics. You've obviously watched the movie "Speed" too much, and think that if Sandra Bullock can do do it, then yes, a regular person can just take the driver's seat of a 20 foot long vehicle holding over 20 passengers and drive it at 55 miles per hour. A person needs to undergo traning, and driving classes, which are very different from when you go your regular license. A driver needs to learn how to drive with 15,000 pounds of load. You think they wouldn't have deployed the buses if just anyone was able to drive one of these things, at maximum highway speed, for 6 hours in order to flee the city? And, on top of that, even if there were that many qualified drivers, you think those are state employees?? They are private citizens, with families, who are not first responders; they all evecuated with the rest of the city before hand. - Galt - 09-07-2005 OMG!!! THE BUS IS HALF FULL! Problem 1 solved. I'm sure there were problems, reasons, whatever. There are certainly excuses, even questionably valid ones. Just like I'm sure there are some questionably valid reasons why the federal government took their seemingly assine actions. I just think that the all-to-common knee-jerk reaction to blame the federal government for local failings is faulty. The first line of responsibility should always fall at the feet of the local governments. That's why they exist. That is in no way absolving the federal government from their fault in cutting funding / training etc. And lets not also forget to fault the idiots who stayed there for whatever reason. Certainly some had no ability to get out, but the stories I've seen are of people who said they'd "wait it out". Before the hurricane hit, the offiicals were basically saying "if we evacuate and you don't leave, you're on your own". It was all over the papers. At some point, you have to point the finger at people and let them take responsibility for their own actions. You even did so at the beginning of this thread before you found God. - diceisgod - 09-07-2005 This reminds me of the time the ecto containment chamber was overfull and the city officials shut it down and then boom. - HedCold - 09-07-2005 well on the shots of the highway i saw there were occasionally a few cars that were going the other way, i guess emergency vehicles. but there was no reason why the emergency vehicles needed all 3 (or 4, whatever it is) lanes at that time. i think that was on I-10. the other highway out of the town was using both sides. - The Jays - 09-07-2005 Galt, your problem seems to be that you're still trying to talk about last Saturday. Everyone else is talk about what happened over the next 6 days it took to have FEMA in control of the city. Knee-Jerk response? It took until Friday for my knee-jerk to occur, which just so happened to coincide with the fact that thousands of people had been in a convention center for a week without anyone coming to feed them or get them out. How is the local government suppose to have the supplies to take care of that, not even considering the police force it would take. Ever been to a footbal game? Ever try and count many security guards they have? You think that the NOPD would have that type of force at its fucking finger tips, never mind the rest of the force that would need to be deployed to stop looters on the street, after the entire city was just detroyed in the most destructive hurricane ever? Everyone wants to hold NY up as the example for proper way to keep a situation from going out of control. In fact, we sent just about every city emergency responder into the WTC, and then watched them all fucking die. This hurricane was even worse than 9/11, communications cut, martial law, looting, flood. Now, you're saying they should have anticipated all of that on the 28th, AND that they should have also anticipated that the federal government will not be responding until Bush comes on Friday. - Galt - 09-07-2005 FEMA is not a first-response unit. It never was set up to be one. That's why there are local fire departments and local police and state and blah blah blah. It should not have taken a week to get them there, but it's not going to be two days to mobilize thousands of people. It is going to to day a few days. I just does. That's all I'm saying. By knee-jerk I mean that people's first reaction is that the federal government shold be fixing issues, when it should not be the case. Obviously, we are a different country since the Consitution, more populous and with easier transportation, but there was no gray area. No question that the federal government was not responsible for state issues. That the federal government has gotten bigger every day and become more powerful is a negative. They are clearly slow and plodding and inefficient. If people expect the federal government to be in charge of things like this, they are wrong. If they want them to be, then more often than not, it's going to be a shitstorm - The Jays - 09-07-2005 Quote:"They've got people here who are search-and-rescue certified, paramedics, haz-mat certified," said a Texas firefighter. "We're sitting in here having a sexual-harassment class while there are still [victims] in Louisiana who haven't been contacted yet." <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.sltrib.com/ci_3004197">http://www.sltrib.com/ci_3004197</a><!-- m --> |