new orleans

[HedCold]

If people expect the federal government to be in charge of things like this, they are wrong. If they want them to be, then more often than not, it's going to be a shitstorm

the federal government can't pick and choose the good and bad spots to get involved in things like this. if they want to control all the aspects of our life like they've been trying to, then they have to suck it up and either help when this happens, or take the complaints.
if anything good comes out of this maybe someone will bring these points up, and it will lead to more of a seperation between federal and state governments, but i really doubt that.

the reason people believe the federal government should be involved is because the federal government has lead us to believe they should be involved

[The Jays]

It should not have taken a week to get them there, but it's not going to be two days to mobilize thousands of people. It is going to to day a few days. I just does. That's all I'm saying. By knee-jerk I mean that people's first reaction is that the federal government shold be fixing issues, when it should not be the case.

The Federal government has a special, often used, part of the government which is TRAINED to mobilize thousands of people in a matter of HOURS. Its called the US Military. Are you saying we can't get the US military into a city in our own fucking country for five fucking days?

But besides all that, you're right, it takes a few days. How much notice did they have that the hurricane was on a path for New Orleans? Three days. And with the path it was taking, it's not very hard to conclude that by the time it made landfall in Florida on the 25th that it would go into the Gulf and pick up more strength. On the 25th, someone should have said "hey, that there hurricane is about to spend the next few days in the warm water of the Gulf, and then it's gonna pass over a portion of the Gulf Coast. Maybe we should mobilize some people."

The Hurricane Center put out a warning that said total catastrophic damage predicted for New Orleans. That oughta mean that the worst case scenario oughta be prepared for. What was the worse case scenario? That the storm surge goes over the levee and puts the city in 30 feet of water with 100,000 people dying. What actually happened? The levee broke before the surge went over the wall, thus, less people died, and thus, there were more survivors. Chertoff basically claims that this is the reason why he wasn't prepared for New Orleans; because he had planned on all of those survivors being dead.

[Galt]

I agree. Though whenever anyone suggests any "cuts" to any federal program they are booed and hissed.

[HedCold]

I agree. Though whenever anyone suggests any "cuts" to any federal program they are booed and hissed.

well maybe federal cuts should really mean state increases?

[The Jays]

I agree. Though whenever anyone suggests any "cuts" to any federal program they are booed and hissed.

Ah yes, the booing and hissing, definitely the hardest part about running a fucking government the right way.

[Mad]

Too much bullshit paper work and useless fucktard's work in government. Don't believe me, see for yourself at any DMV office.

[The Jays]

Hey Galt, I didn't know you were on tv today!

"I understand there are 10,000 people dead. It's terrible. It's tragic. But in a democracy of 300 million people, over years and years and years, these things happen."

These things happen. That's Jack's defense of the government. You'll always notice with characters of his ilk, (a classic example of what AmericaBlog is reporting ) they always make wild statements without any evidence to back it up and shuck and jive their way around the issue. People like Burkman get on TV because they regurgitate idiotic premises and constantly interrupt the other guest..

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[The Jays]

Q Scott, the President on Saturday referred to the problems of bureaucracy. It's now Tuesday. The Vice President heads down there on Thursday to deal with it. Can you cite for us a specific bureaucratic impediment that has been identified and corrected today?

MR. McCLELLAN: I think that in terms of the specifics, that the Secretary -- Secretary Chertoff, or FEMA Director Mike Brown can provide you the operational aspects of the specifics of what have occurred on the ground today. They'll be doing a briefing later today. But there continues to be good progress made when it comes to evacuating people.

Like I said, most of the people have been evacuated. I think there's a relatively small number. All those that were sent to places where people were evacuated, I think have been evacuated out of New Orleans. The levees, those are getting repaired.

Q Were those bureaucratic impediments that have been corrected? Or was that a --

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, the bureaucratic impediments that the President is referring to is about getting assistance to the people who need it. Yes, there are a number of agencies that are acting, but they have issued waivers to rules and regulations. The President wants to cut through the red tape in the bureaucracy and make sure that the assistance is getting to the people. One thing that he talked about in the Cabinet meeting today at length was, look, we've got to make sure that there aren't rules in place that are preventing assistance from getting to those who have been displaced, or have been evacuated, who are no longer in a home of their own, they're in a shelter. And we've got to take that assistance to them.

So, yes, that is part of -- all that is part of cutting through the bureaucracy and red tape.

Go ahead.

Q Scott, there's words that James Lee Witt had said, that -- people who had been there within three hours after everything broke loose. Why was Mr. Brown not on the ground?

MR. McCLELLAN: He was, prior to the hurricane.

Q Well, why didn't he bring in the troops? Why didn't he deploy all the necessary assistance that was needed?

MR. McCLELLAN: There were -- disaster medical assistance teams were deployed. Search and rescue teams were deployed ahead of the hurricane.

Q But why didn't he -- but why weren't teams deployed to the Convention Center? Why weren't teams deployed to the Superdome? Why were people without water, without food? Why was there looting in New Orleans for survival? And you're talking about zero tolerance. Why did these things happen over a period of days, and you start seeing Mr. Brown on the air talking about he didn't know about the Convention Center and other things. Why?

MR. McCLELLAN: Look, you're getting into all the after-action analysis, and I can't tell you all the --

Q And you're saying there is not a blame game, but you open the door to the response --

MR. McCLELLAN: I can't tell you that everything you said is factually correct, and they've got -- we've got to look at all the facts. We've got to determine what worked, what didn't work, and apply --

Q Well, what's not working? What's not working in your view right now?

MR. McCLELLAN: -- and apply lessons from that.

Q What do you see that's not working right now? What is not working? Because these people are dying from dysentery now --

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, last week --

Q -- infection now; they're displaced, homes are gone. Does anyone in this administration know anyone that's down there --

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, I think you need to talk to people on the ground --

Q -- beyond Trent Lott?

MR. McCLELLAN: -- people on the ground who have --

Q Does anyone in this White House know anyone that's there, beyond Trent Lott, that's lost a home, that has lost family, that's displaced?

MR. McCLELLAN: The President visited with a number of those who have been affected by the hurricane. We went down to Mississippi and Louisiana on Friday. The President visited with a number of people in the Biloxi area who have lost everything they had. The President saw firsthand --

Q Does anyone in this administration know anyone personally who's been affected by the devastation?

MR. McCLELLAN: Yes, the President has talked about those, and the President has visited with people who have lost everything they have. I know people that have been displaced, friends of mine. And it's terrible when you go and see the devastation on the ground. We've seen the devastation on the ground. We've seen the homes that are no longer there. We've seen the flooding that has covered a large portion of New Orleans and that has taken lives. There are people who continue to suffer and we need to get them help. And that's why our focus is on getting them help.

Q Scott, is the President going to New Orleans any time now that the safety situation seems to be under control?

MR. McCLELLAN: He was just in New Orleans on Friday.

Q Is he going back now that the water has receded --

MR. McCLELLAN: I suspect he will continue to visit the region.

Q -- and be on the ground?

MR. McCLELLAN: He was on the ground in New Orleans. Go ahead. In fact, he visited with a number of people who have been affected by the hurricane in New Orleans.

Go ahead.

Q Did anyone take him to the Superdome? Does anyone want to take him there?

MR. McCLELLAN: The Superdome has been evacuated, is my understanding.

Q But is anyone going to take him there so he can see what happened there, to see the aftermath?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, look, one thing we don't want to do is disrupt ongoing response and recovery efforts, April, and there are still issues being addressed on the ground in New Orleans. There's the flooding. We're going to have a very ugly scenario once all the water is pumped out of New Orleans and we start to recover even more bodies and we start to address health issues that could come about because of all the massive flooding that occurred in New Orleans. We've got a lot of concern about health issues.

Q -- dysentery is on the --

MR. McCLELLAN: Actually, I think you ought to talk to the health officials. Secretary Leavitt provided an update to the President about --

Q Scott, you're not up to date with what's happening there. Dysentery has already started --

MR. McCLELLAN: April, I'm going to move on, because I don't think --

Q But it sounds like you are not up to date.

MR. McCLELLAN: No, I don't think you have all the facts correct --

Q No, I have enough facts.

MR. McCLELLAN: -- and making broad statements is one thing, but --

Q I'm not making broad statements. The people have infection and dysentery already.

MR. McCLELLAN: Secretary Leavitt and the CDC and others can provide you -- yes, they can provide you with those health issues and how they're addressing those health issues.

[Goatweed]

noone wants to take blame, and everyone seems to think general statements are the right answers.

and then people wonder why the rest of the world hates & laughs at us. this country has become a real bad joke.

[Hoon]

I don't see the down side to this...

[HedCold]

I don't see the down side to this...

you weren't in new orleans when it happened

[Suzie]

Wanna get married?

My whole life until now has been merely prelude to this moment.

[Mad]

Does NA cater weddings?

[Galt]

WSJ editorial opines on role of local vs. federal government in distasters

The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his emergency operations center.

...local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The problems identified in the simulation apparently were not solved.

A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected.
The New Orleans contingency plan is still, as of this writing, on the city's Web site, and states: "The safe evacuation of threatened populations is one of the principle [sic] reasons for developing a Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan." But the plan was apparently ignored.

Mayor Nagin was responsible for giving the order for mandatory evacuation and supervising the actual evacuation: His Office of Emergency Preparedness (not the federal government) must coordinate with the state on elements of evacuation and assist in directing the transportation of evacuees to staging areas. Mayor Nagin had to be encouraged by the governor to contact the National Hurricane Center before he finally, belatedly, issued the order for mandatory evacuation.

The city's evacuation plan states: "The city of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas." But even though the city has enough school and transit buses to evacuate 12,000 citizens per fleet run, the mayor did not use them. To compound the problem, the buses were not moved to high ground and were flooded. The plan also states that "special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific lifesaving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed." This was not done.

The evacuation plan warned that "if an evacuation order is issued without the mechanisms needed to disseminate the information to the affected persons, then we face the possibility of having large numbers of people either stranded and left to the mercy of a storm, or left in an area impacted by toxic materials." That is precisely what happened because of the mayor's failure.

Instead of evacuating the people, the mayor ordered the refugees to the Superdome and Convention Center without adequate security and no provisions for food, water and sanitary conditions. As a result people died, and there was even rape committed, in these facilities. Mayor Nagin failed in his responsibility to provide public safety and to manage the orderly evacuation of the citizens of New Orleans. Now he wants to blame Gov. Blanco and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. In an emergency the first requirement is for the city's emergency center to be linked to the state emergency operations center. This was not done

State legislators and governors nationwide need to update their contingency plans and the operation procedures for state emergency centers. Hurricane Katrina had been forecast for days, but that will not always be the case with a disaster (think of terrorist attacks). It must be made clear that the governor and locally elected officials are in charge of the "first response."

I am not attempting to excuse some of the delays in FEMA's response. Congress and the president need to take corrective action there, also. However, if citizens expect FEMA to be a first responder to terrorist attacks or other local emergencies (earthquakes, forest fires, volcanoes), they will be disappointed. The federal government's role is to offer aid upon request.

[The Jays]

You shouldn't have to request aid from the Federal government when they already have a paper in their hand saying NEW ORLEANS TO GET SHIT KICKED OUT OF IT.


It's like telling the police there's going to be a robbery, and then watching the police not respond to the scene until the owner calls up and says he's been robbed.

Wal-mart didn't wait to provide aid. They didn't wait to be asked.

You are obviously quite happy with the results of the hurricane. You seem to have the complete faith in the government's responsibility.

I am sure you also think Winston Churchill is a scum sucking liberal.



Edited By The Jays on 1126129549

[The Jays]

[Mad]

So are you saying that because the head moolie in charge failed to heed the prior warnings from previous drills that it's FEMA's fault?

Someone needs to take History 101.

[diceisgod]

Not counting the incalculable number of deaths and suffering people, this is the coolest thing that has ever happened.

[Mad]

One storm and see how you can clean up the Big Easy of all the scum sucking leeches. Hope they're smart enough not to let them back.

[Galt]

Yes, I'm clearly happy with everyone dying, and am happy with every action the federal government has done, and I love George Bush. That's exactly what I've posted numerous times. Since you obviously only paid attention to parts of the WSJ editorial that I posted, I see no reason to think you've paid attention to the other stuff I've written.

Huzzah to dead black people. Long live George Bush.