04-15-2002, 12:19 PM
Wow, where do I start?
First a little history lesson.
When the apostles first went out to start preaching, they gathered groups around them and told all the stories to their followers. Everything was passed on in an oral tradition. The apostles genuinely beleived that the Second Coming would be in their lifetime. So, they didn't bother writing anything down. It was only as the apostles started dieing or being martyred that their followers started writing everything down. It was collected until years later and then was VOTED on by a collection of Bishops.
For the first couple hundred years, it was NOT organized. There were no priests, bishops, etc. Just knowledgable people who knew all the stories. People would gather on Sunday for a big dinner at someone's house where the knowledgable person would tell stories and they would all DEBATE the meaning. (A LOT of those knowledgable people were women.) And they would "break bread" as Jesus had shown them to do. That was it. That was the whole religion.
It was only later as it grew that men sought to use and control it. They banned women from being priests and bishops and "organized" everything. And they decided what books did and did not get into the bible. The ones that were rejected can be found in the Agnostic Gospels. Including the gospel of Mary Magdeline that claims Jesus MARRIED her and they had kids.
Now, as for priests not marrying, that was started by a guy who spent his youth drinking and screwing everything in sight. Then he got older, felt guilty, converted to Christianity and decided since it was bad for him to drink and screw noone else should either. He started the whole "sex is bad" movement and made the priesthood and nuns celibate. He would have made everyone celibate, but even he realized if your followers don't have kids, then there is no next generation of followers and you'll scare away new followers. Thank you, Saint Thomas Aquinas.
And just to fill everyone is, there IS a psychological screening for the priesthood. The screening is done BY PRIESTS who have degrees in psychiatry. You can easily see the conflict of interest there. "We're running out of priests, so don't reject anyone without a damn good reason."
If you look back at the last attempt to revolutionize the church, the last pope wanted to go MUCH further. There were rumors that the changes included letting priests marry, permitting contraceptives, and stuff like that. Then the guy died and we ended up with the current pope.
Pope John Paul II is great for international diplomacy, but lousy on reform. Why? Because he was a priest in Poland during Nazi occupation. The Nazi's tried to stamp out religion and he, along with other priests, resisted strongly. That kind of situation breads fundamentalism.
As for the value of religion, even Napolean saw it. The French Revolution BANNED religion and forcibly kicked it out of France. Napolean brought it back for it's value as a source for morals, ethics, and pacification of the populace.
For all of religions faults, the ethics and morals presented in the pure form of ALL religions have provided a foundation for civility and a better quality of life. It doesn't take a genious to see the value of the Ten Commandments to every day life even without the religious context.
As for me, well, I'm still debating the issue with myself. Probably never come to a satisfactory conclusion.
Edited By Arthur Dent on April 15 2002 at 08:22
First a little history lesson.
When the apostles first went out to start preaching, they gathered groups around them and told all the stories to their followers. Everything was passed on in an oral tradition. The apostles genuinely beleived that the Second Coming would be in their lifetime. So, they didn't bother writing anything down. It was only as the apostles started dieing or being martyred that their followers started writing everything down. It was collected until years later and then was VOTED on by a collection of Bishops.
For the first couple hundred years, it was NOT organized. There were no priests, bishops, etc. Just knowledgable people who knew all the stories. People would gather on Sunday for a big dinner at someone's house where the knowledgable person would tell stories and they would all DEBATE the meaning. (A LOT of those knowledgable people were women.) And they would "break bread" as Jesus had shown them to do. That was it. That was the whole religion.
It was only later as it grew that men sought to use and control it. They banned women from being priests and bishops and "organized" everything. And they decided what books did and did not get into the bible. The ones that were rejected can be found in the Agnostic Gospels. Including the gospel of Mary Magdeline that claims Jesus MARRIED her and they had kids.
Now, as for priests not marrying, that was started by a guy who spent his youth drinking and screwing everything in sight. Then he got older, felt guilty, converted to Christianity and decided since it was bad for him to drink and screw noone else should either. He started the whole "sex is bad" movement and made the priesthood and nuns celibate. He would have made everyone celibate, but even he realized if your followers don't have kids, then there is no next generation of followers and you'll scare away new followers. Thank you, Saint Thomas Aquinas.
And just to fill everyone is, there IS a psychological screening for the priesthood. The screening is done BY PRIESTS who have degrees in psychiatry. You can easily see the conflict of interest there. "We're running out of priests, so don't reject anyone without a damn good reason."
If you look back at the last attempt to revolutionize the church, the last pope wanted to go MUCH further. There were rumors that the changes included letting priests marry, permitting contraceptives, and stuff like that. Then the guy died and we ended up with the current pope.
Pope John Paul II is great for international diplomacy, but lousy on reform. Why? Because he was a priest in Poland during Nazi occupation. The Nazi's tried to stamp out religion and he, along with other priests, resisted strongly. That kind of situation breads fundamentalism.
As for the value of religion, even Napolean saw it. The French Revolution BANNED religion and forcibly kicked it out of France. Napolean brought it back for it's value as a source for morals, ethics, and pacification of the populace.
For all of religions faults, the ethics and morals presented in the pure form of ALL religions have provided a foundation for civility and a better quality of life. It doesn't take a genious to see the value of the Ten Commandments to every day life even without the religious context.
As for me, well, I'm still debating the issue with myself. Probably never come to a satisfactory conclusion.
Edited By Arthur Dent on April 15 2002 at 08:22
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