For Keyser

[Hoon]

I'll give you this, though. Not many "leftists" or whatever you label yourself would admit Clinton was anything other than a saint.

completely untrue

Maybe. But it seems to stand true with the leftists I've debated with for the past few years.

Of course, this statement may not hold true on this site.
I already see more objectivity here in a few short debates than I've seen in years at the DB.

[Hoon]

I'm taking another timeout just to keep my head from exploding.

There's no need to boil over, man.
It's just a discussion.

[The Jays]

Actually, no twathead, I didn't try to enter the debate. I gasped and exclaimed, 'jesus, you're not even reasonable, are you?', in awe of the rapture that George W. Bush has put you in.

Who fucking cares what Kerry would do, he didn't win, and woulda coulda shoulda talk doesn't have any relevance. North Korea is run by a crazy fucking gook who works his evil magic to get our taxpayer dollars because he really doesn't want to run any sort of country. Now he's got nukes, so now what? instead of bitching about who's fault it is, why not talk about how the president can fuck up this situation.

[Hoon]

Actually, no twathead, I didn't try to enter the debate. I gasped and exclaimed, 'jesus, you're not even reasonable, are you?', in awe of the rapture that George W. Bush has put you in.

Who fucking cares what Kerry would do, he didn't win, and woulda coulda shoulda talk doesn't have any relevance. North Korea is run by a crazy fucking gook who works his evil magic to get our taxpayer dollars because he really doesn't want to run any sort of country. Now he's got nukes, so now what? instead of bitching about who's fault it is, why not talk about how the president can fuck up this situation.

You seem to have alot of criticism.
Any solutions to go along with that watermelon?

Or are you just a one trick pony?

[Arpikarhu]

you are biggest jackass to grace these forums in quite a while

Luna told me she met you in person.
Apparently, your board status is all you have to be proud of.

she is so delusional that any opinion she voices is tainted by her insanity.
you however are still the biggest jackass to grace these forums in a long long time. no surprise that you value her opinion.

[Sir O]

Unless you are really naive enough to believe N. Korea was so much more advanced than anyone could imagine as to develop 8-10 nuclear weapons since 2000, just because of Bush.

WHAT THE FUCK??? They've been working on nukes for the longest time, no shit. Decades. Where did I say anything that even hinted at what you're saying?

From your citing of Buhs's inclusion of N. Korea in the "Axis of Evil" speech and the fact that you lay more blame on Bush than Clinton.

I'll give you this, though. Not many "leftists" or whatever you label yourself would admit Clinton was anything other than a saint.

But I don't think it's "mostly Bush's fault", in any way.
Obviously coddling and sending aide to someone who was obviously developing nukes during a supposed global de-escalation would be the exact thing opponenets would villanize the US for, if god forbid KJI would've developed and used them.

I believe the reason N. Korea wanted uni-latteral talks with the US was because they fear the current players in the multi-latteral talks. That being China, of course.
So the reason they asked for uni-latteral talks with the US alone was because Clinton gave them an impression that the US was soft and easily manipulated as long as we got the slightest result... no matter how meaningless.

My point.
Uni-latteral talks with the US would allow N. Korea to continue to develop nukes while they blew smoke up our ass.
But now, with China breathing down they're neck. They're not so comfortable.

I'm in bizarro world...

[Hoon]

you are biggest jackass to grace these forums in quite a while

Luna told me she met you in person.
Apparently, your board status is all you have to be proud of.

she is so delusional that any opinion she voices is tainted by her insanity.
you however are still the biggest jackass to grace these forums in a long long time. no surprise that you value her opinion.

Well, she's seen you face to face.
Was she lieing about your meek, Screech like, appearance?



Edited By Hoon on 1108089344

[Hoon]

Unless you are really naive enough to believe N. Korea was so much more advanced than anyone could imagine as to develop 8-10 nuclear weapons since 2000, just because of Bush.

WHAT THE FUCK??? They've been working on nukes for the longest time, no shit. Decades. Where did I say anything that even hinted at what you're saying?

From your citing of Buhs's inclusion of N. Korea in the "Axis of Evil" speech and the fact that you lay more blame on Bush than Clinton.

I'll give you this, though. Not many "leftists" or whatever you label yourself would admit Clinton was anything other than a saint.

But I don't think it's "mostly Bush's fault", in any way.
Obviously coddling and sending aide to someone who was obviously developing nukes during a supposed global de-escalation would be the exact thing opponenets would villanize the US for, if god forbid KJI would've developed and used them.

I believe the reason N. Korea wanted uni-latteral talks with the US was because they fear the current players in the multi-latteral talks. That being China, of course.
So the reason they asked for uni-latteral talks with the US alone was because Clinton gave them an impression that the US was soft and easily manipulated as long as we got the slightest result... no matter how meaningless.

My point.
Uni-latteral talks with the US would allow N. Korea to continue to develop nukes while they blew smoke up our ass.
But now, with China breathing down they're neck. They're not so comfortable.

I'm in bizarro world...

Sir O...

Do you honestly think any former or potential US President would've been able to successfully deal with Kim Jong Ill without caving into blackmail and financially supporting his country for him while he ran it into the ground at the expense of us, the taxpayers?

[Arpikarhu]

you are biggest jackass to grace these forums in quite a while

Luna told me she met you in person.
Apparently, your board status is all you have to be proud of.

she is so delusional that any opinion she voices is tainted by her insanity.
you however are still the biggest jackass to grace these forums in a long long time. no surprise that you value her opinion.

Well, she's seen you face to face.
Was she lieing about your meek, Screech like, appearance?

you seem to be in denial about how much of a jackass you are. shame. maybe we should start a poll.

[Hoon]

you are biggest jackass to grace these forums in quite a while

Luna told me she met you in person.
Apparently, your board status is all you have to be proud of.

she is so delusional that any opinion she voices is tainted by her insanity.
you however are still the biggest jackass to grace these forums in a long long time. no surprise that you value her opinion.

Well, she's seen you face to face.
Was she lieing about your meek, Screech like, appearance?

you seem to be in denial about how much of a jackass you are. shame. maybe we should start a poll.

Are you going to do a poll on which of your friends you should ask to beat me up?

Slater, Zack, Mr. Belding or other?

[Arpikarhu]

cute. very cute. its sad that this tiny glimmer of wit is not enough to masquerade what a complete jackass you are. you every utterance is either a parroting of partisan hackery or a forced and pathetic cry for attention. go back to luna and the DB where the rest of your sort has setlled like silt in a river of mediocrity.

[Hoon]

if I wanted attention, I'd go to the DB and make Jim Morrison, bathtub jokes.
No, I'm after something much more valuable, here.
Your second consecutive fall from grace.

[Sir O]

Hoon: NO.

I think NK is a giant fucking insane insylum, with nuclear weapons. They have 4x3x2 cages for people. Think about living an hour in that...ok a week.

Yes, slowly accepting them back into the real world takes time and money, and you have to understand that all anyone from NK knows is worship for Kim.

My point was, initial barriers - - trade and communications - - were openend up, contact with the outside, were openend.

Then slammed shut.

[Hoon]

Hoon: NO.

I think NK is a giant fucking insane insylum, with nuclear weapons. They have 4x3x2 cages for people. Think about living an hour in that...ok a week.

Yes, slowly accepting them back into the real world takes time and money, and you have to understand that all anyone from NK knows is worship for Kim.

My point was, initial barriers - - trade and communications - - were openend up, contact with the outside, were openend.

Then slammed shut.

You have a point. I can agree with what your saying may have some causation to the current problems with N. Korea..

But I think when it comes to a nuclear threat, even if it is only a regional threat..
That #1) Having uni-latteral talks is useless because China carries a shit load of influence since they're in the region and #2) This breakdown with N. Korea was inevitable given our agreement on the insanity of the N. Korean dictatoriship.

They have culpability in that they have to give alittle to get alittle also. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't what caused the door to be slammed shut, the fact that N. Korea was not complying with the terms set by us concerning nuclear development and disclosure?



Edited By Hoon on 1108091108

[Arpikarhu]

if I wanted attention, I'd go to the DB and make Jim Morrison, bathtub jokes.
No, I'm after something much more valuable, here.
Your second consecutive fall from grace.

you cant really be this stupid. actually, maybe you can.

[Hoon]

if I wanted attention, I'd go to the DB and make Jim Morrison, bathtub jokes.
No, I'm after something much more valuable, here.
Your second consecutive fall from grace.

you cant really be this stupid. actually, maybe you can.

Don't you have a poll to make?
Can't you see the men are talking?

Now remove yourself from my thread or I'll make a hobby of you.

[Arpikarhu]

you finally made me laugh. congrats!

[Keyser Soze]

north korea is a failure of both the clinton and g.w.bush administration. clinton for not doing anything about it while in office and bush for continuing to do nothing. the bush administration now acknowledges that North Korea extracted enough plutonium in the last two years for about half a dozen nuclear weapons.

i defer to the new york slimes, as the angry puppy mark levin refers to it...

In fairness, Mr. Bush is paralyzed only because the alternatives are dreadful. A military strike on North Korea's nuclear sites might have been an option in the early 1990's, but today we don't know where the plutonium and the uranium are kept, so a military strike might accomplish little - but trigger a new Korean war. To fill the time, Mr. Bush has pursued six-party talks involving North Korea, but they have gotten nowhere.

So what would work?

The other option is the path that Richard Nixon pursued with Maoist China: resolute engagement, leading toward a new "grand bargain" in which Kim Jong Il would give up his nuclear program in exchange for political and economic ties with the international community. This has the advantage that the best bet to bring down Mr. Kim, the Dear Leader, isn't isolation, but contacts with the outside world.

A terrific new book on North Korea, "Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader" by Bradley Martin, underscores how those few glimpses that North Koreans have had of the outside world - by working in logging camps in Russia or sneaking trips to China - have helped undermine Mr. Kim's rule. Yet Westerners have in effect cooperated with him by helping to keep his borders sealed.

At least China and South Korea have a strategy to transform North Korea: encourage capitalism, markets and foreign investment. Chinese traders, cellphones and radios are already widespread in the border areas, and they are doing more to weaken the Dear Leader than anything Mr. Bush is doing.

North Korea is the eeriest and most totalitarian country I've ever visited, making even Saddam Hussein's Iraq seem normal by comparison. I realized how regimented the entire country was when I stopped two girls randomly on the street for an interview on a 1989 trip and the girls started praising their leaders - reciting identical lines in perfect unison.

In his new book, Mr. Martin tells the story of how one of the Dear Leader's assistants, while drunk, told his wife about his boss's womanizing. The wife, apparently a true believer in the North Korean system, was shocked and wrote a letter to the leadership to protest this immorality.

The Dear Leader had the woman brought to him, then denounced her before a crowd and ordered her shot. At that point, her husband begged to be allowed to kill her. Graciously acceding, Mr. Kim handed him a gun to kill his own wife.

So this is a regime that is not just menacing, but monstrous. Mr. Bush is right to regard it with loathing. But U.S. policy on North Korea for the last four years has only strengthened Mr. Kim and allowed him to expand his nuclear arsenal severalfold.

The risk is that Mr. Bush will respond to the failure of his first term's policy by adopting an even harder line in the coming months, seeking Security Council sanctions (he won't get them) and ultimately imposing some kind of naval quarantine. That would only strengthen Mr. Kim's grip on power, as well as risk a war on the Korean peninsula. A Pentagon study in the 1990's predicted that such a war could kill one million people.

In short, our mishandling of North Korea has been appalling - and it may soon get worse.

[Hoon]

The hardline approach may not be the answer, I agree.
But I don't think we should make a practice of rewarding rogue country's with trade and aide because they've obtained nuclear capabilities.

I say we send in Matt Damon to assasinate KJI



Edited By Hoon on 1108156482

[Black Lazerus]

The hardline approach may not be the answer, I agree.
But I don't think we should make a practice of rewarding rogue country's with trade and aide because they've obtained nuclear capabilities.

I say we send in Matt Damon to assasinate KJI

I could sure use that point.