So, who's next?

[GonzoStyle]

I just expect more jobs, and a cost of living that is somewhere in the neighborhood of what MOST people actually make.

Thats all.

[Sir O]

Foreign policy doesn't mean prosperity abroad. It means making the rest of the world a place where our people can travel safely, our businesses can expand globally, and no other country can get into position to fuck with any of it.

I disagree. Foreign policy consists (or should consist) of free international trade, and protecting our citizens from force and fraud. Unless I missed the part in the Constitution where it says all Americans have the right to travel safely abroad and expand their businesses internationally at the expense of the citizens of foreign countries.

[GonzoStyle]

I just say we bring back Reagan and end this whole charade called "the Civilized World".

[Mad]

Interesting read for those that care.

The Declaration of Independence,2003
By Robert Greenslade
On July 4, 2003, the United States of America will celebrate the 227th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. In 1776, the American Colonies declared their independence from the State of Great Britain and were transformed into sovereign political entities or States. The Declaration of Independence, which was drafted by Thomas Jefferson, enumerated the grievances against the British Crown and justified the separation from Great Britain. This laid the foundation for the adoption of the Constitution for the United States in 1788. If Thomas Jefferson was alive today and asked to contrast the intent of the Constitution to the conduct of the federal government created by that document, the author believes he would view the federal government in the same light as the British Crown and write a new Declaration of Independence. The author has followed the original format where possible and believes Jefferson would enumerate the following grievances against the federal government.


In a Convention of Sovereign States, July 4, 2003
The unanimous Declaration of the fifty united States of America
In the Course of securing Liberty and establishing the Republic, our Forefathers Dissolved all allegiance to the British Crown and declared the American Colonies to be free and independent States. This separation from the mother country Transformed the newly established States into separate Sovereign political entities. That in order to Preserve their freedom and independence, the several States found it necessary to Unite for their common defense.

That in 1781, the thirteen united States, Severally, entered into a league of friendship with each other for their common defense, the security of their liberties, and their mutual and general welfare called the Articles of Confederation. Under this Compact, each state retained its Sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every Power, Jurisdiction and right, which was not expressly Delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled. This limited Confederation did not consolidate the thirteen united States or their People into one nation.

That in 1787, twelve of the thirteen united States, Severally, sent delegates to a Federal [Constitutional] Convention for the sole and express purpose of Revising the federal system of government established by the Articles of Confederation. The delegates drafted a new Compact between the several States called The Constitution for the United States of America. When adopted by the several States in 1788, this Compact did not abolish the federal system of government established by the Articles of Confederation or consolidate the thirteen united States or their People into one nation.

That in ratifying the Constitution for the United States, the several States created a common agent called the federal government. They empowered their agent with the authority to perform Limited enumerated functions that would be difficult or impossible for the States to perform individually. Under the terms of this Compact, every power not Delegated by the principles to the agent was Retained by the States or the People.

That the government created by the several States was Delegated limited enumerated powers, which, in the words of Alexander Hamilton, operate on the several States "in their united or collective capacity." None of the general powers Delegated to the federal government were to operate directly on the American people because they are not a party to the Compact between the several States as enumerated in Article VII of our Constitution.

That the constitutional delineation of power between the federal and state governments, which is the Foundation of our Constitution, was stated in no uncertain terms by James Madison: [t]he powers delegated…to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people; and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State. The operations of the federal government will be most extensive and important in times of war and danger; those of the State governments in times of peace and security.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that the federal government has refused to stay within the Confines of its constitutionally Delegated powers. That the federal government created by the Compact between the several States is exercising powers Not granted and attempting to consolidate the Sovereign American States into one nation. That a consolidation of Sovereign States, controlled exclusively by political parties, would institute a form of government Foreign to our Constitution and rejected by our Forefathers. That whenever the federal government becomes destructive of the ends for which it was established, it is the Right of the States, as the exclusive parties to the contract between themselves, to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under the absolute Despotism of a central government controlled exclusively by political parties, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Such has been the patient sufferance of the People of the several States and such is now the necessity which requires them to Command their agent, the state governments, to alter, abolish or reform the federal government established by the individual States. The recent history of the federal government is a history of Repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these Sovereign States and their People. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

The federal government has declared itself to be supreme and above the several States.

The federal government has abdicated its constitutional function as the agent of the States and declared itself to be a party to the Compact between the several States.

The federal government has made judges dependent on the Will of political parties alone, for their appointment to office and the amount of payment of their salaries.

The federal government has rendered the judiciary superior to the Sovereign powers of the States and the natural Rights of the People.

The federal government has authorized the judiciary to alter our Constitution without resorting to the amendment process Required by the express terms of the Compact.

The federal government has claimed a power Not enumerated in our Constitution to define the extent of the powers delegated to itself.

The federal government has radically Expanded its power through convoluted interpretations of various clauses of our Constitution when the intent of our Forefathers is easily ascertainable.

The federal government has Plundered the wealth of our States and left them unable to fulfill their constitutional obligations.

The federal government has used a Perversion of the Commerce Clause of our Constitution to disarm the People of the several States under color of law.

The federal government has Subjected our citizens to death and bodily harm in foreign countries without a formal Declaration of War as required by our Constitution.

The federal government has, under color of law, enacted laws with the stated purpose of bringing the People of the several States under its direct control when No such power is granted by our Constitution.

The federal government has used a Perversion of the Commerce Clause of our Constitution to exercise regulatory control over every aspect of human existence within the several States.

The federal government has used a Perversion of the General Welfare Clause of our Constitution to tax and appropriate money from our People to fund programs Not authorized by our Constitution.

The federal government has, under color of law, Compelled our citizens to appear before its legislative tribunal to be interrogated on matters Not within the scope of its delegated powers under threat of fine and imprisonment.

The federal government has used a Perversion of the Commerce Clause of our Constitution erect so-called civil Rights statutes when the constitutional duty of securing the Rights of the People was Reserved to the States.

The federal government has Erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of revenue officers and bureaucrats to harass our people and eat out their substance.

The federal government has sent census workers into the several States to Invade the privacy of the People and inquire into their private affairs under threat of fine.

The federal government has Perverted various clauses of our Constitution to legitimize the theft of our land.

The federal government has Given itself a new power of taxation Not authorized by our Constitution and Contrary to the intent of an Amendment to our Constitution.

The federal government has, under legislation Not authorized by our Constitution, Invaded the boundaries of our States to commandeer the education of our children.

The federal government has combined with other nations to subject the people of these States to jurisdiction foreign to our Constitution through pretended treaties unacknowledged by our laws; giving its Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation.

For quartering large bodies of armed federal employees among us when No general police power was delegated to that government by our Constitution:

For protecting them, from punishment for any transgressions which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States under color of law:

For compelling our citizens, under threat of fine and imprisonment, to participate in a tax and welfare scheme masquerading as a retirement program when No such power is granted by our Constitution:

For using so-called war powers to Deprive citizens of the benefits of Trial by Jury when no Declaration of War has been formally declared as Required by our Constitution:

For transporting our citizens to federal courts to be tried for Pretended offenses enacted under a Perversion of the Commerce Clause of our Constitution:

For incurring debts Not authorized by our Constitution:

For imposing Taxes on us Without our Consent for the purpose of befriending foreign powers and potentates when No such power is granted by our Constitution:

For invading the privacy of our People under the illusion of securing public safety when that duty was Reserved to the several States:

For subjecting our People to jurisdiction Foreign to the common law:

For abdicating its constitutional responsibility to coin money and regulate the value thereof by transferring this function to a private banking consortium called the Federal Reserve:

For elevating the office of the president to a position of prominence Not envisioned by our Forefathers and Foreign to our Constitution.

For abusing the legislative process by unconstitutionally bestowing powers on the office of the president Contrary to the amendment process of our Constitution:

For plundering our wealth, ravaging our pocketbooks, and destroying the lives of our people:

The federal government has used a Perversion of the Commerce Clause of our Constitution to enact a multitude of criminal statutes Not authorized by our Constitution.

The federal government has Assumed the power to legislate concerning the Rights enumerated in our Bill of Rights when the stated purposed of the Amendments contained therein was to Restrict the powers of the federal government.

The federal government has Rendered its law enforcement agencies independent of and superior to the Civil Power of the several States.

The federal government has Assumed the power to invoke so-called emergency powers when No such power is enumerated in our Constitution.

The federal government has used a Perversion of the General Welfare and Commerce Clauses to render the Tenth Amendment to our Constitution null and void.

The federal government has declared the People of these united States potential domestic enemies if they express a fidelity to our Constitution.

In every stage of these Oppressions and Usurpations of power We have petitioned for redress in the most humble and peaceful terms:

Our repeated requests that the federal government stay within bounds of its constitutionally Delegated powers have been answered only by repeated injury and usurpations. A federal government, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrannical government, is unfit to be the common agent of a Union of Sovereign States.

We, therefore, the people of the united States of America, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, of the good People of these united States, solemnly publish and declare, That these united States, as free and Independent States; are Absolved from all undue submission to their federal government, and that all political connection between them and their federal government, will be totally dissolved if that government does not return to its constitutionally limited powers; and that as Free and Independent States, they will have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Robert Greenslade focuses his writing on issues surrounding the federal government and the Constitution. He believes politicians at the federal level, through ignorance or design, are systematically dismantling the Constitution in an effort to expand their power and consolidate control over the American people. He has dedicated himself to resurrecting the true intent of the Constitution in the hope that the information will contribute, in some small way, to restoring the system of limited government established by the Constitution.

Please note: This re-write of the original Declaration of Independence is for educational purposes only and not meant to promote or encourage the commission of an unlawful act.

[GonzoStyle]

Most of his points are really reaching because like many things written many centuries ago, they could not possess the vision of how far we would come in 200 years. Just as the majority of things written today will not apply in another 200 years, people, society, and the world as a whole drastically change. With it's population growth which is hundreds of times larger than it was in the late 1700's and our industrial and technological growth. With the inventions of everything from the light bulb, car, plane to computers and the internet.

Just like the right to bear arms that the NRA thrives upon, that was penned in a day long ago for Militia purposes during a fight against a tyrinical power that choked us. When people had to protect their homes and time less "civilized" than today. That wasn't meant for some redneck to have the right to have a slew of assault rifles at their disposal for no reason.

The federal government has sent census workers into the several States to Invade the privacy of the People and inquire into their private affairs under threat of fine.

The census is a very much needed system for this country, its not an invasion of privacy in anyway, just reading too much into it. The census helps guide this nation in many aspects of its daily hubble.

The federal government has Given itself a new power of taxation Not authorized by our Constitution and Contrary to the intent of an Amendment to our Constitution.

Thats also silly, to disslove the goverments right to tax its people is just reatrded. Back in a day when people ate with their fingers, had no paved roads, little form of education and rode on horseback maybe it was ok. But how do you expect the daily things you take for granted to be available to you? Roads, schools, parks, recreational areas, beaches, shelters, goverment programs, govermental bodies to aid its people.

Yeah a huge chunk of it is spent ill advised but still.

the several States created a common agent called the federal government. They empowered their agent with the authority to perform Limited enumerated functions that would be difficult or impossible for the States to perform individually.

Galt would not agree with that.

[Mad]

So what you're saying is that you are in fact a communist.

[GonzoStyle]

I am russian, what gave it away?

[Mad]

I am russian, what gave it away?

Just like the right to bear arms that the NRA thrives upon, that was penned in a day long ago for Militia purposes during a fight against a tyrinical power that choked us. When people had to protect their homes and time less "civilized" than today. That wasn't meant for some redneck to have the right to have a slew of assault rifles at their disposal for no reason.

Statements like this for one. In the twenty century the biggest killer of people was in fact their own government. From Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot etc... 100 million lost souls.

That alone should be more then enough of a reason for every person to have the means to defend themselves from "government".

[GonzoStyle]

That alone should be more then enough of a reason for every person to have the means to defend themselves from "government".

Hitler was elected and supported by the majority of his people. If a people wanted to revolt they would have as was the case when Lenin and his Bolsheviks stormed the Czars palace in 1917. People feared Stalins reign but also loved him at the same time. Pol Pot is a good example though.

Now name me the time in the last 227 years the presidents name who gave us any cause of fear for us to arm ourselves? The whole point you just made holds no water cause you mentioned dictators who were in power till their deaths, which is exactly the point of electing a president every 4 years, so we dont fall unto a tyranical dictator. Plus no one in the NRA is arming themsleves against the "goverment", they just wanna compensate.

[Mad]

Now name me the time in the last 227 years the presidents name who gave us any cause of fear for us to arm ourselves?

George W. Bush and the Patriot Act.

[GonzoStyle]

I may have to agree with the masses and say you are silly.

[LyricalGomez]

WELCOME TO THE CONVERTED

[Mad]

Well at least your not alone in that belief.

[LyricalGomez]

What about his not alone?

[Galt]

Limited enumerated functions that would be difficult or impossible for the States to perform individually.

Edited By Galt on 1057369437

[GonzoStyle]

yes but take my point of the growth of america and its population into consideration when reading that passage, the role of the federal goverment should and must increase along side the country.

[Mad]

Shut your mouth you commie pinko.

Is that better?



Edited By Mad on 1057369843

[LyricalGomez]

Quite?

[Galt]

I agree.

I didn't say the ONLY function of the federal government should be for foreign policy. I said the MAIN function should be that.

State Governments should be in control of local issues. Town/City governments should be even moreso that state governments.

That's why they have different governments. If the fed was going to be responsbile for creating an environment to produce local jobs then why bother having local governments?

[GonzoStyle]

I agree that the federal gov't shouldn't delve into every states petty shit, its impossible cause the states themselves can barely handle it. But when the country is not doing well as we are today, we shouldn't be playing around with other countries. Our elected officials are supposed to serve our best interests.

This is fuckin Liberia we are talking about, after the ballyhoo in Iraq where no one and nothing has been found is this what we need? When Afghanistan is slowly turning back to its old ways, bin laden has become a memory to most people. I blame society as well for being so short tempered and so short on memories of the past.

I can understand if it was Japan having a problem, the russians, england. We must keep up friendships and offer help to such countries but to meddle in the affairs of everyone is preposterous.

It's like the movie "Traffic"

too busy fighting the destruction of drugs outside his home to notice his own daughter was a junkie till she almost died.