patfromportland Wrote:To me the whole concept is a little shady. So there is this guy in heaven (living by himself i guess) and one day he decides to create stuff. Not only does he create stuff but everything he creates has to "worship" him. Except one time people didnt worship him so he killed everybody except for two of each animal. Sounds kinda full of himself to me.

killerb Wrote:How does god select who, what , when or where he uses his powers and/or abilities? If you beleive in "miracles" for instance, god has used his power to alter the outcome of a specific event due to one of his childrens "free will" in most cases. Why is it OK to change that outcome and not use his power to make WBC's brakes go out on a curvy road on the way to protest a soldier killed for this country? Where's the justice?

Admin Wrote:

patfromportland Wrote:To me the whole concept is a little shady. So there is this guy in heaven (living by himself i guess) and one day he decides to create stuff. Not only does he create stuff but everything he creates has to "worship" him. Except one time people didnt worship him so he killed everybody except for two of each animal. Sounds kinda full of himself to me.

God in a nutshell:

God was in heaven with the angels.

Satan, the angel of music and the most beautiful angel, decided that he was higher than God.

God banished Satan from heaven and Satan took one third of the angels, who sided with Satan, with him. They became demons.

God wanted to prove to the angels, demons, and Satan that He was just in this decision so he created man and gave him free will. The world and the people were perfect but there was the "fruit" of knowledge of good and evil. The people, using free will, ate the fruit and became fully aware of sin.

God could have interceded but he wanted to show that he was just and full of mercy. He allowed them to choose to worship him or not.

Men, utilizing free will, became evermore evil. Some of the demons took on a human form so that they could have sex with humans and taint the bloodline of Adam (which would eventually be the bloodline of Jesus). God saw that Satan was trying to usurp God again so he had to destroy all the people save for two whose bloodline hadn't been tainted.

The world, as it was known to man, became populated again and God set up laws for man to follow. God told them, through Moses, that if they broke these laws that they would have to sacrifice something of value (usually perfect lambs which people depended upon for money etc) to them to show that they were truly repentful.

Man failed again because man is fallible. God sent Jesus, who was without sin, to earth to teach man about God. Man, through the wiles of Satan, killed Jesus and Satan thought he had usurped God. However, Jesus being without sin, became the sacrificial lamb that was sacrificed for all of man's sin. His death reconciled man to God once and for all. The only stipulation is that man has free will to choose to accept that reconciliation or deny it.

dasbow Wrote:In the beginning, God created Man, and everything Man has done has been pissing God off ever since.

dasbow Wrote:In the beginning, God created Man, and everything Man has done has been pissing God off ever since.

wienerpoopie Wrote:*shrug*

wienerpoopie Wrote:*shrug*

Mad Dog Wrote:

Queenie Wrote:Our own individual lives are what we individually make them. God has no power over free will.

Please note Exodus 4:21
The Lord said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go."

Also please note Romans 9:14-18
What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, " I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and compassion on whom I have compassion."
It does not, therefore, depend on mans desire or effort, but Gods mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy and hardens whom he wants to harden.

Any thoughts?

Mad Dog Wrote:

Mad Dog Wrote:Please note Exodus 4:21
The Lord said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go."

Also please note Romans 9:14-18
What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, " I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and compassion on whom I have compassion."
It does not, therefore, depend on mans desire or effort, but Gods mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy and hardens whom he wants to harden.

Any thoughts?

Its a riddle wrapped in an enigma in an unknowable little package.
How on one hand we have totally freewill yet God sets up everything for His own good. How God is omnipresent, all knowing, and all powerful, yet surprisingly aloof. Instead of where's Waldo, it's become where's God? Is he in your heart? Is he in the trees? Is he in outer space? Is he nowhere? Is he everywhere? Is he real? Is he a figment of our collective imaginations? This is why I am agnostic. Who really knows. Maybe he exists, Maybe he doesn't. If you know in your heart he does, well then he does. If you haven't yet been convinced, well then he doesn't.

speedbump Wrote:I'll through my hat in there and say I'm with wiener poopie on this one, what Biff posted reads like a fairy tale to me.

speedbump Wrote:I'll through my hat in there and say I'm with wiener poopie on this one, what Biff posted reads like a fairy tale to me.

wienerpoopie Wrote:

speedbump Wrote:I'll through my hat in there and say I'm with wiener poopie on this one, what Biff posted reads like a fairy tale to me.

Admin Wrote:

patfromportland Wrote:To me the whole concept is a little shady. So there is this guy in heaven (living by himself i guess) and one day he decides to create stuff. Not only does he create stuff but everything he creates has to "worship" him. Except one time people didnt worship him so he killed everybody except for two of each animal. Sounds kinda full of himself to me.

God in a nutshell:

God was in heaven with the angels.

Satan, the angel of music and the most beautiful angel, decided that he was higher than God.

God banished Satan from heaven and Satan took one third of the angels, who sided with Satan, with him. They became demons.

God wanted to prove to the angels, demons, and Satan that He was just in this decision so he created man and gave him free will. The world and the people were perfect but there was the "fruit" of knowledge of good and evil. The people, using free will, ate the fruit and became fully aware of sin.

God could have interceded but he wanted to show that he was just and full of mercy. He allowed them to choose to worship him or not.

Men, utilizing free will, became evermore evil. Some of the demons took on a human form so that they could have sex with humans and taint the bloodline of Adam (which would eventually be the bloodline of Jesus). God saw that Satan was trying to usurp God again so he had to destroy all the people save for two whose bloodline hadn't been tainted.

The world, as it was known to man, became populated again and God set up laws for man to follow. God told them, through Moses, that if they broke these laws that they would have to sacrifice something of value (usually perfect lambs which people depended upon for money etc) to them to show that they were truly repentful.

Man failed again because man is fallible. God sent Jesus, who was without sin, to earth to teach man about God. Man, through the wiles of Satan, killed Jesus and Satan thought he had usurped God. However, Jesus being without sin, became the sacrificial lamb that was sacrificed for all of man's sin. His death reconciled man to God once and for all. The only stipulation is that man has free will to choose to accept that reconciliation or deny it.

Mad Dog Wrote:

Mad Dog Wrote:Please note Exodus 4:21
The Lord said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go."

Also please note Romans 9:14-18
What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, " I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and compassion on whom I have compassion."
It does not, therefore, depend on mans desire or effort, but Gods mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy and hardens whom he wants to harden.

Any thoughts?

Its a riddle wrapped in an enigma in an unknowable little package.
How on one hand we have totally freewill yet God sets up everything for His own good. How God is omnipresent, all knowing, and all powerful, yet surprisingly aloof. Instead of where's Waldo, it's become where's God? Is he in your heart? Is he in the trees? Is he in outer space? Is he nowhere? Is he everywhere? Is he real? Is he a figment of our collective imaginations? This is why I am agnostic. Who really knows. Maybe he exists, Maybe he doesn't. If you know in your heart he does, well then he does. If you haven't yet been convinced, well then he doesn't.

Mad Dog Wrote:

Mad Dog Wrote:Please note Exodus 4:21
The Lord said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go."

Also please note Romans 9:14-18
What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, " I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and compassion on whom I have compassion."
It does not, therefore, depend on mans desire or effort, but Gods mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy and hardens whom he wants to harden.

Any thoughts?

Its a riddle wrapped in an enigma in an unknowable little package.
How on one hand we have totally freewill yet God sets up everything for His own good. How God is omnipresent, all knowing, and all powerful, yet surprisingly aloof. Instead of where's Waldo, it's become where's God? Is he in your heart? Is he in the trees? Is he in outer space? Is he nowhere? Is he everywhere? Is he real? Is he a figment of our collective imaginations? This is why I am agnostic. Who really knows. Maybe he exists, Maybe he doesn't. If you know in your heart he does, well then he does. If you haven't yet been convinced, well then he doesn't.

patfromportland Wrote:Thank you so much for this. However, I do have one question: was all this stuff actually in the bible or was this all made up by catholics over the years? Or both?

Titan ! Wrote:Personally, my biggest block to accepting Christianity, or any religion, is the Bible.

It's a book. Written words passed along from generation to genreation, and supposedly not one word has been changed or altered. I just can't buy that.

Titan ! Wrote:Personally, my biggest block to accepting Christianity, or any religion, is the Bible.

It's a book. Written words passed along from generation to genreation, and supposedly not one word has been changed or altered. I just can't buy that.

Queenie Wrote:

Mad Dog Wrote:Its a riddle wrapped in an enigma in an unknowable little package.
How on one hand we have totally freewill yet God sets up everything for His own good. How God is omnipresent, all knowing, and all powerful, yet surprisingly aloof. Instead of where's Waldo, it's become where's God? Is he in your heart? Is he in the trees? Is he in outer space? Is he nowhere? Is he everywhere? Is he real? Is he a figment of our collective imaginations? This is why I am agnostic. Who really knows. Maybe he exists, Maybe he doesn't. If you know in your heart he does, well then he does. If you haven't yet been convinced, well then he doesn't.

Open the eyes of your heart and allow him to come in. It's awesome!!

Let me ask you a question maddog . . . do you have that little voice in your head that talks to you sometimes? Like when you start to do something and the little voice says, "you know better" or "maybe I need to think a little more before doing this"? If so, then there is a God in your world. That's Him!! He is always present and accounted for!!

lovegrenade Wrote:

Admin Wrote:This is probably your biggest stumbling block to faith and I can completely understand your opposition to same. Who would want to love a god who controlled their every action?

Would you as a parent try to control every thought and action of your child? Of course not. Neither does God.

...and who would want to love a god that is going to send you to hell to burn for eternity if you don't love him? How is that free will? "Yeah, go ahead and do whatever you want, you have free will, just remember, I'm going to let you suffer more than you can possibly imagine." The whole idea just seems ridiculous to me the more I think about.

lovegrenade Wrote:...and who would want to love a god that is going to send you to hell to burn for eternity if you don't love him? How is that free will? "Yeah, go ahead and do whatever you want, you have free will, just remember, I'm going to let you suffer more than you can possibly imagine." The whole idea just seems ridiculous to me the more I think about.

Queenie Wrote:

lovegrenade Wrote:...and who would want to love a god that is going to send you to hell to burn for eternity if you don't love him? How is that free will? "Yeah, go ahead and do whatever you want, you have free will, just remember, I'm going to let you suffer more than you can possibly imagine." The whole idea just seems ridiculous to me the more I think about.

God doesn't send you there . . . you make that decision (and trip)all on your own. He makes a valliant effort, whether you choose to accept and believe in Him is your "free will". Do you have children?? Well I do, and I know that I love them very much and try to guide and teach them the proper ways of life, however, they do not always do the right thing. That is their choice, and they get to face the consequences of their actions, just as everybody does.

wienerpoopie Wrote:I don't wanna grow up, I'm a Toys R' Us kid. A million toys to choose from, that I can play with. From bikes to trikes and video games, its the biggest toy stor there is. GEE WIZ! I don't wanna grow up, cuz baby if I did....I wouldn't be a toys r' us kid!

wienerpoopie Wrote:You have officially burst my bubble Queen :'(

Queenie Wrote:

wienerpoopie Wrote:You have officially burst my bubble Queen :'(

Awwww . . .that's okay Poopie . . . God still loves you!!

lovegrenade Wrote:

Queenie Wrote:Awwww . . .that's okay Poopie . . . God still loves you!!

....but, you're still going to burn in hell for all eternity. Sorry about that Wiener Poopie, but at least you know he still loves you...

lovegrenade Wrote:

Queenie Wrote:Awwww . . .that's okay Poopie . . . God still loves you!!

....but, you're still going to burn in hell for all eternity. Sorry about that Wiener Poopie, but at least you know he still loves you...

lovegrenade Wrote:Nah, I just didn't want the Queen of Whore Island giving Wiener Poopie false hope...

lovegrenade Wrote:Nah, I just didn't want the Queen of Whore Island giving Wiener Poopie false hope...