kaboobie92 Wrote:lovegrenade, no matter what anybody says you won't believe it. What's the point of trying? You need an open mind to see God. If you keep your mind closed and shut Him out, then how would you expect to find Him? You can't. And i suppose it makes more sense that the world has just always been here? or it just magically appeared with an explosion? Those make no sense.

lovegrenade Wrote:

kaboobie92 Wrote:lovegrenade, no matter what anybody says you won't believe it. What's the point of trying? You need an open mind to see God. If you keep your mind closed and shut Him out, then how would you expect to find Him? You can't. And i suppose it makes more sense that the world has just always been here? or it just magically appeared with an explosion? Those make no sense.

This actually made me laugh a little bit because of how ironic it is when I think back on how I came to be a non-believer. I was a close-minded Catholic up until I was in my 20's. Then I actually opened my mind to evidence and stopped blindly following the faith that I had been indoctrinated with since the day I was born.

You're very argument itself makes no sense if you truly think about it. Instead of believing that the world always was, or that it "magically" appeared, you take an even further leap by suggesting that a magical being always existed, and it magically formed the universe.

Don't get me wrong, I understand where you're coming from, because I used to make the same arguments.

uglybitch Wrote:

lovegrenade Wrote:Nah, I just didn't want the Queen of Whore Island giving Wiener Poopie false hope...

Bull effing shit.

wienerpoopie Wrote:

Queenie Wrote:

uglybitch Wrote:Bull effing shit.

Uhhh . . . lighten up. We're all friends on here.

lovegrenade Wrote:

Queenie Wrote:Uhhh . . . lighten up. We're all friends on here.

Ha, he is the best sarcasm picker-upper ever.

lovegrenade Wrote:I know, I just wish that I could have found my Crayola Flesh of Christ crayon.
Unfortunately I had to settle for Heathen Tan.

Peachs Wrote:Flying Spaghetti Monster... 'nuff said....

kaboobie92 Wrote:so I don't get it.. you non-believers think you just cease to exist when you die? I know you probabally won't believe me, but I have felt GOD many times. This was especially true when my Grandpa died this past summer, everyone could feel the presence in the room. All the candles went out and the lights flickered just after the prayer. Pretty crazy. I just don't get how someone can look at this world and all the beauty in it and think that there is no creator behind it.

kaboobie92 Wrote:so I don't get it.. you non-believers think you just cease to exist when you die? I know you probabally won't believe me, but I have felt GOD many times. This was especially true when my Grandpa died this past summer, everyone could feel the presence in the room. All the candles went out and the lights flickered just after the prayer. Pretty crazy. I just don't get how someone can look at this world and all the beauty in it and think that there is no creator behind it.

lovegrenade Wrote:

kaboobie92 Wrote:so I don't get it.. you non-believers think you just cease to exist when you die? I know you probabally won't believe me, but I have felt GOD many times. This was especially true when my Grandpa died this past summer, everyone could feel the presence in the room. All the candles went out and the lights flickered just after the prayer. Pretty crazy. I just don't get how someone can look at this world and all the beauty in it and think that there is no creator behind it.

Probably because there is 0 evidence that a god exists. The above diagram is a perfect illustration of how faith works. You are raised to believe in an all-powerful creator, therefore, anything that can't easily be explained is simply god's doing. The fact that people still adhere to a 2000 year old book, boggles my mind.

lovegrenade Wrote:Actually, Darwin didn't convert to Christianity on his death bed, not that it even matters.
http://www.darwin-legend.org/html/Charles-Darwin-Three-Minilegends.htm

kaboobie92 Wrote:

lovegrenade Wrote:Probably because there is 0 evidence that a god exists. The above diagram is a perfect illustration of how faith works. You are raised to believe in an all-powerful creator, therefore, anything that can't easily be explained is simply god's doing. The fact that people still adhere to a 2000 year old book, boggles my mind.

There is also 0 evidence that God dosen't exist. Thats the whole point of faith. If it was obvious, there would be no faith.

kaboobie92 Wrote:if you didn't know poopie... darwin converted to christianity before he died

Mad Dog Wrote:

kaboobie92 Wrote:if you didn't know poopie... darwin converted to christianity before he died

According to the documentary "Galapagos" Darwin as a young scientist and ship statistician, was very much steeped in Christian tradition and creationism. However when his ship arrived in the Galapagos Islands and he began cataloging and studying the wild life there. He began to notice immediately that there were huge gapping holes in creationist dogma.

Similar animals would adapt physically too different islands, as each island is far apart enough, and literally have different climates. Similarly each island has different Flora and Fauna. And animals such as finches seemed to have developed physical charactics to suit it best for that particular island, not to mention being unique through out the world. Later it was discovered that the giant land tortoise especially fell into this category, because even a lay person could tell which island held each individual species of turtle just by looking.

These observations absolutely flew in the face of creationism. The bible seems to indicate (at least how creationists interpret it ) that the earth and its inhabitants are unchanging just as God is unchanging. God said it, God made it, That settles it. The Alpha and the Omega.

The thing I think every one forgets here is that Darwin started out as a Christian with an open mind, then through simple scientific observations, came to a different conclusion than what Christian dogma allowed for. Thus he is a hated, polarizing figure demonized by the Christian Right to this very day. I don't think that Darwin proved that there is no God, just that our natural environment doesn't match up in lock step with the bible or Christian Theology. Darwin's observations and questions have been the camels nose in Christians tent ever since.

There is no doubt that just prior to his death, Darwin may have thoughts of his own mortality and eternity, may have renounced some if not all of his own observations. Given the deep level of indoctrination taught to most of the western world, especially at this point in history, its no wonder why Darwin may have had second thoughts.

But Galapagos still exists, just as it did in Darwin's time and many scientists have observed the same phenomenon of evolution in its animal population, unless God has some how overlooked or hasn't heard about this island chain, the same principals apply to us as them.

8ballquarterpocket Wrote:

Mad Dog Wrote:According to the documentary "Galapagos" Darwin as a young scientist and ship statistician, was very much steeped in Christian tradition and creationism. However when his ship arrived in the Galapagos Islands and he began cataloging and studying the wild life there. He began to notice immediately that there were huge gapping holes in creationist dogma.

Similar animals would adapt physically too different islands, as each island is far apart enough, and literally have different climates. Similarly each island has different Flora and Fauna. And animals such as finches seemed to have developed physical characters to suit it best for that particular island, not to mention being unique through out the world. Later it was discovered that the giant land tortoise especially fell into this category, because even a lay person could tell which island held each individual species of turtle just by looking.

These observations absolutely flew in the face of creationism. The bible seems to indicate (at least how creationists interpret it ) that the earth and its inhabitants are unchanging just as God is unchanging. God said it, God made it, That settles it. The Alpha and the Omega.

The thing I think every one forgets here is that Darwin started out as a Christian with an open mind, then through simple scientific observations, came to a different conclusion than what Christian dogma allowed for. Thus he is a hated, polarizing figure demonized by the Christian Right to this very day. I don't think that Darwin proved that there is no God, just that our natural environment doesn't match up in lock step with the bible or Christian Theology. Darwin's observations and questions have been the camels nose in Christians tent ever since.

There is no doubt that just prior to his death, Darwin may have thoughts of his own mortality and eternity, may have renounced some if not all of his own observations. Given the deep level of indoctrination taught to most of the western world, especially at this point in history, its no wonder why Darwin may have had second thoughts.

But Galapagos still exists, just as it did in Darwin's time and many scientists have observed the same phenomenon of evolution in its animal population, unless God has some how overlooked or hasn't heard about this island chain, the same principals apply to us as them.

The Galapagos and all its animals where there when God made them. But like life everything and everybody and animals change and in evolve to meet their needs. Why do you have such a believe there is No God! Is your life so perfeft that You don't need him!

Mad Dog Wrote:

8ballquarterpocket Wrote:The Galapagos and all its animals where there when God made them. But like life everything and everybody and animals change and in evolve to meet their needs. Why do you have such a believe there is No God! Is your life so perfeft that You don't need him!

Actually 8ball, unlike weinerpoopy, I don't consider myself atheist, I consider myself agnostic which translated means I'm not exactly sure if God exists or not since I can not prove it one way or the other. However, having said that, if God does exist , I have a few questions I would like to ask him and would like some answers to if I am to believe in Him and love Him as he has commanded us to do. Starting but not ending with these:

1. Why God if you hate sin so much, are we born with a sinful nature?

2. Why God did you let Hitler do such horrible things to the people who claimed to be Gods children since Abraham, Issac, and Jacob?

3. Why God do you let children, who have done nothing to You or harmed you in anyway, be born with horrible afflictions and birth defects?

4. Why God, since you are our father, have you left us to fend for ourselves and only left a book to explain yourself?

5. Why God (if you and your word are perfect) do flawed men through simple observation of our natural condition find so many contradictions in the bible and in the Christian tradition?

6. Why God do wicked men seem to prosper and grow like weeds while good and honest men seem to always have to struggle?

7. If God, you would treat your only begotten son so inhumanely as to send him out to be tortured and crucified and murdered, why should we as regular people want to love and worship you?

I'm sure given time that I could come up with more questions for God. But to answer your last question about whether or not I have such a perfect life that I no longer need God, far, far from it. It's just that Ive learned to adapt.

8ballquarterpocket Wrote:

Mad Dog Wrote:Actually 8ball, unlike weinerpoopy, I don't consider myself atheist, I consider myself agnostic which translated means I'm not exactly sure if God exists or not since I can not prove it one way or the other.

You call yourself an atheist really what that mean is you are a lost soul or a fool take your pick.

Mad Dog Wrote:

8ballquarterpocket Wrote:You call yourself an atheist really what that mean is you are a lost soul or a fool take your pick.

Do you see your problem here? You are calling me a name that I have not claimed to be. I am not smart enough or presumptive enough to say with 100% assurance whether or not God does or does not exist. And personally I do not care if you think I am either a fool or a lost soul. I have my questions which are my stumbling block. So please, go back to your church and please take an English class.

Mad Dog Wrote:So in your small brain, you think atheism and agnosticism are one in the same? I beg to differ. Atheism is the total belief in the LACK of a God. Agnosticism is the acknowledgment that God may exist or may not.

For your information, I've probably spent more time in the past reading the bible than most as I've literally read it cover to cover seven or eight times. So you have closed your mind to any other possibility than God said it, that settles it. I get that, I was there once myself. Like yourself at one time I tried very hard to browbeat and convince and debate people to accept there own personal sin and accept Jesus as their personal savior.

I have since discovered that you cannot convince people to do ANYTHING they are not willing to do. And It is not worth my emotional energy. Think what you like I don't give a Sh*t. So you've rejected logic, science, grammar and embraced religiosity. I don't give a rats ass, the only reason I'm even taking the time from my relaxing Sunday morning is because your such a vindictive, unthought out, uneducated, neo-christian-nazi.

Oh and by the way, may Satan strike you down because you have appointed yourself judge over every doubter and unbeliever.

Mad Dog Wrote:I get precious little love Pat, thanks.