Zee Wrote:

providencecrow Wrote:Here is the significance: If it is intelligent life, that would be cool.

Personally unless we are under an intergalactic assault, i don't really care either way. Statistically there probably is something else out there, but i remain skeptical like with all things until i have definitive proof.

Yeah... okay... more intelligent life on this planet 'would be cool.'

What is the significance in regards to religion or the existence of God?

providencecrow Wrote:

Zee Wrote:Yeah... okay... more intelligent life on this planet 'would be cool.'

What is the significance in regards to religion or the existence of God?

Well one of the core beliefs is that God had made man in his image. More intelligent life out there kind of throws a wrench in the spokes of that theory.

It's not really my problem since i am an atheist, which is why i said the significance was that it would be cool.

Zee Wrote:

providencecrow Wrote:Well one of the core beliefs is that God had made man in his image. More intelligent life out there kind of throws a wrench in the spokes of that theory.

It's not really my problem since i am an atheist, which is why i said the significance was that it would be cool.

How does that throw a wrench in the spokes of that theory?

providencecrow Wrote:

Zee Wrote:How does that throw a wrench in the spokes of that theory?

Well there are a number of ways to go with that. What created them? Is it another God, is it the same? What was his purpose for doing that then? If it was made by the christian God, why absolutely no mention of their creation in the Bible? That would be a pretty major hole in the story telling. "oh yeah you know where i created heaven and hell and the earth and man? I kinda got drunk one night and had a bunch of eff ups that i threw on another planet...but don't worry they won't bother you for a few millennium at least"

Especially if they came to us way before we had the technology to get to them, they would obviously be more advanced and civilized than us.

I mean really, i can't see how Aliens and Christianity can work in any non contradictory way.

providencecrow Wrote:

Zee Wrote:How does that throw a wrench in the spokes of that theory?

Well there are a number of ways to go with that. What created them? Is it another God, is it the same? What was his purpose for doing that then? If it was made by the christian God, why absolutely no mention of their creation in the Bible? That would be a pretty major hole in the story telling. "oh yeah you know where i created heaven and hell and the earth and man? I kinda got drunk one night and had a bunch of eff ups that i threw on another planet...but don't worry they won't bother you for a few millennium at least"

Especially if they came to us way before we had the technology to get to them, they would obviously be more advanced and civilized than us.

I mean really, i can't see how Aliens and Christianity can work in any non contradictory way.

kaboobie92 Wrote:

providencecrow Wrote:Well there are a number of ways to go with that. What created them? Is it another God, is it the same? What was his purpose for doing that then? If it was made by the christian God, why absolutely no mention of their creation in the Bible? That would be a pretty major hole in the story telling. "oh yeah you know where i created heaven and hell and the earth and man? I kinda got drunk one night and had a bunch of eff ups that i threw on another planet...but don't worry they won't bother you for a few millennium at least"

Especially if they came to us way before we had the technology to get to them, they would obviously be more advanced and civilized than us.

I mean really, i can't see how Aliens and Christianity can work in any non contradictory way.

When you are talking about our GOD please use a little more respect. We respect you, please respect us. Especially the drunk part.

wingospagettio Wrote:My question for those that do not believe in God. Do you celebrate Christmas? Though it is now a *blech*commercial holiday, it started as a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. Just wondering if giving up things like that are part of the philosophy.

speedbump Wrote:

wingospagettio Wrote:My question for those that do not believe in God. Do you celebrate Christmas? Though it is now a *blech*commercial holiday, it started as a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. Just wondering if giving up things like that are part of the philosophy.

Atheism isn't a philosophy, it's a affirmation of the nonexistence of Gods, or the rejection of theism. One atheist could celebrate Christmas, while another could not. They wouldn't conflict. At this point though, Christmas is a commercial holiday and is widely celebrated by many non-christians.

jus' P Wrote:

speedbump Wrote:Atheism isn't a philosophy, it's a affirmation of the nonexistence of Gods, or the rejection of theism. One atheist could celebrate Christmas, while another could not. They wouldn't conflict. At this point though, Christmas is a commercial holiday and is widely celebrated by many non-christians.

The PC Police( politically correct) have also ruined Christmas in this country. A lot of "Christians" don't even know the story of Christmas. Remember last Easter when FB&HW grilled the interns on the story of Easter? It was a joke, and by "a joke" I don't mean funny.

kaboobie92 Wrote:

providencecrow Wrote:Well there are a number of ways to go with that. What created them? Is it another God, is it the same? What was his purpose for doing that then? If it was made by the christian God, why absolutely no mention of their creation in the Bible? That would be a pretty major hole in the story telling. "oh yeah you know where i created heaven and hell and the earth and man? I kinda got drunk one night and had a bunch of eff ups that i threw on another planet...but don't worry they won't bother you for a few millennium at least"

Especially if they came to us way before we had the technology to get to them, they would obviously be more advanced and civilized than us.

I mean really, i can't see how Aliens and Christianity can work in any non contradictory way.

When you are talking about our GOD please use a little more respect. We respect you, please respect us. Especially the drunk part.

speedbump Wrote:

kaboobie92 Wrote:And there is no such thing as evolution. Find me some evidence, Adaptation yes, Evolution no. But its no sense in me arguing with you because I'm not going to try to convince you that what I believe is right. You will believe what you want to believe whether I talk or not. GOD is there, but if you don't look for Him, you won't find Him.

After saying something like this, I know me arguing has a 99.9% chance of futility, but I am damn well going to try.

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/32801/title/Replaying_evolution_

This is an experiment done on E-coli, over 44,000 generations. The e-coli were given a limited supply of food, but enough to survive and placed in citrate. After 31,000 generations the e-coli developed a new ability to absorb nutrients from the citrate. Since a specimen was frozen from every 500, then went back to the 20,000 generation and found that if you started with e-coli from this point, they were much more likely to develop the abiliity to absorb citrate. In the process leading to this new ability, they found that two genetic drift's occurred, and after each drift the chance that e-coli would develop the absorbing ability increased.

After seeing this, how can you not believe in Evolution? I'll remind you of the definition in case you forgot.

"In biology, evolution is the process of change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. The genes that are passed on to an organism's offspring produce the inherited traits that are the basis of evolution. Mutations in genes can produce new or altered traits in individuals, resulting in the appearance of heritable differences between organisms, but new traits also come from the transfer of genes between populations, as in migration, or between species, in horizontal gene transfer. In species that reproduce sexually, new combinations of genes are produced by genetic recombination, which can increase the variation in traits between organisms. Evolution occurs when these heritable differences become more common or rare in a population."

You'll notice that, after 31,000 generations, a major inherited trait changed from one generation to the next.

You're welcome.

speedbump Wrote:

kaboobie92 Wrote:When you are talking about our GOD please use a little more respect. We respect you, please respect us. Especially the drunk part.

Would you care to acknowledge my evolution post?

speedbump Wrote:After saying something like this, I know me arguing has a 99.9% chance of futility, but I am damn well going to try.

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/32801/title/Replaying_evolution_

This is an experiment done on E-coli, over 44,000 generations. The e-coli were given a limited supply of food, but enough to survive and placed in citrate. After 31,000 generations the e-coli developed a new ability to absorb nutrients from the citrate. Since a specimen was frozen from every 500, then went back to the 20,000 generation and found that if you started with e-coli from this point, they were much more likely to develop the abiliity to absorb citrate. In the process leading to this new ability, they found that two genetic drift's occurred, and after each drift the chance that e-coli would develop the absorbing ability increased.

After seeing this, how can you not believe in Evolution? I'll remind you of the definition in case you forgot.

"In biology, evolution is the process of change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. The genes that are passed on to an organism's offspring produce the inherited traits that are the basis of evolution. Mutations in genes can produce new or altered traits in individuals, resulting in the appearance of heritable differences between organisms, but new traits also come from the transfer of genes between populations, as in migration, or between species, in horizontal gene transfer. In species that reproduce sexually, new combinations of genes are produced by genetic recombination, which can increase the variation in traits between organisms. Evolution occurs when these heritable differences become more common or rare in a population."

You'll notice that, after 31,000 generations, a major inherited trait changed from one generation to the next.

You're welcome.

Zee Wrote:

speedbump Wrote:Would you care to acknowledge my evolution post?

You are talking micro-evolution. From what I understand most Christians who have a problem with evolution don't believe in macro-evolution. Personally I don't think either mico-evolution or macro-evolution is contradicted by the Bible.

speedbump Wrote:

Zee Wrote:You are talking micro-evolution. From what I understand most Christians who have a problem with evolution don't believe in macro-evolution. Personally I don't think either mico-evolution or macro-evolution is contradicted by the Bible.

He didn't specify, but I don't see how he could deny one but not the other. The only fundamental difference is the time it takes. A series of compounded micro-evolutions is what leads to macro-evolution.

Zee Wrote:

speedbump Wrote:He didn't specify, but I don't see how he could deny one but not the other. The only fundamental difference is the time it takes. A series of compounded micro-evolutions is what leads to macro-evolution.

Creationalists wouldn't agree with you. I however am not one and really have never cared enough to learn their arguments well enough to throw any other thoughts out there.

Zee Wrote:

speedbump Wrote:He didn't specify, but I don't see how he could deny one but not the other. The only fundamental difference is the time it takes. A series of compounded micro-evolutions is what leads to macro-evolution.

Creationalists wouldn't agree with you. I however am not one and really have never cared enough to learn their arguments well enough to throw any other thoughts out there.

kaboobie92 Wrote:

Zee Wrote:Creationalists wouldn't agree with you. I however am not one and really have never cared enough to learn their arguments well enough to throw any other thoughts out there.

so you are a Christian but not a creationalist? So you do not believe that GOD created the earth as it says in the Bible?

kaboobie92 Wrote:

Zee Wrote:Creationalists wouldn't agree with you. I however am not one and really have never cared enough to learn their arguments well enough to throw any other thoughts out there.

so you are a Christian but not a creationalist? So you do not believe that GOD created the earth as it says in the Bible?

speedbump Wrote:

kaboobie92 Wrote:so you are a Christian but not a creationalist? So you do not believe that GOD created the earth as it says in the Bible?

Catholics are Christians, and they accept evolution, and I think the Big Bang. The Bible is not fact, pure and simple. Do you honestly believe two people re-populated the entire planet in 5000 years, and somehow different races developed? You cannot believe the story of Noah's Ark happened, which means you could conclude that the bible is not 100% accurate and other stories are not historically factual, such as the creation story.

Zee Wrote:

speedbump Wrote:Catholics are Christians, and they accept evolution, and I think the Big Bang. The Bible is not fact, pure and simple. Do you honestly believe two people re-populated the entire planet in 5000 years, and somehow different races developed? You cannot believe the story of Noah's Ark happened, which means you could conclude that the bible is not 100% accurate and other stories are not historically factual, such as the creation story.

I believe the Bible is 100% factual and accurate.

speedbump Wrote:

Zee Wrote:I believe the Bible is 100% factual and accurate.

How can you believe God used evolution, AND believe the story of Noah's Ark? Evolution does not occur at such a rapid pace as 5000 years. How could different races developed, and the Earth become repopulated? Explain yourself, sir.

Zee Wrote:

speedbump Wrote:How can you believe God used evolution, AND believe the story of Noah's Ark? Evolution does not occur at such a rapid pace as 5000 years. How could different races developed, and the Earth become repopulated? Explain yourself, sir.

I don't find the need to confine things into boxes, but I already explained that and the other things you are asking for explanation on with the exception of the flood. Yes, I believe in the flood as well. Scroll up for the other explanations.

Zee Wrote:I don't find the need to confine things into boxes, but I already explained that and the other things you are asking for explanation on with the exception of the flood. Yes, I believe in the flood as well. Scroll up for the other explanations.

speedbump Wrote:

Zee Wrote:I don't find the need to confine things into boxes, but I already explained that and the other things you are asking for explanation on with the exception of the flood. Yes, I believe in the flood as well. Scroll up for the other explanations.

But you didn't explain how they could both occur and not conflict. I'm sorry, but I don't accept "I don't confine things into boxes" as an explanation. They cannot work together, unless you can explain it to me.

Zee Wrote:I believe that God created the earth. There are two accounts of creation in Genesis. They both tell the story of creation differently but I think they are both accurate. In the first account God told the story as creating everything in six days, but I don't think it was necessarily six days as we know it. I think its possible that a day could have been a million years and I think God could possibly have used evolution to create the world.

Zee Wrote:

speedbump Wrote:But you didn't explain how they could both occur and not conflict. I'm sorry, but I don't accept "I don't confine things into boxes" as an explanation. They cannot work together, unless you can explain it to me.

Zee Wrote:I believe that God created the earth. There are two accounts of creation in Genesis. They both tell the story of creation differently but I think they are both accurate. In the first account God told the story as creating everything in six days, but I don't think it was necessarily six days as we know it. I think its possible that a day could have been a million years and I think God could possibly have used evolution to create the world.

speedbump Wrote:

Zee Wrote:

I want you to explain how, after only two people were left in the story of Noah's Ark, they could have repopulated the Earth and different races and cultures developed after 5000 years. You must believe that story, since you said the bible was 100% factual. I get that you believe in evolution, but this has nothing to do with that. You are avoiding my question. If you say that the story is an anecdote, then you do not believe it is 100% factual. You could believe everything it contains are "truths", but not facts.

Queenie Wrote:

Zee Wrote:I don't find the need to confine things into boxes, but I already explained that and the other things you are asking for explanation on with the exception of the flood. Yes, I believe in the flood as well. Scroll up for the other explanations.

I believe that miracles happen to let us know that Jesus did live, was crucified and rose from the grave. Even when Jesus was walking this earth, there were numerous non-believers, thus his reasoning behind miracles. People witnessed these miracles and told others so that they might too believe. Miracles still happen for that very reason. My daughter was cured overnight from a very serious sickness. It did not happen the first time our Pastor laid hands on her, or the second, but the third time, the time that she accepted the healing. The doctors at Vanderbilt Children's Hospital had no explanation for her sudden healing. I was told it would take a year or longer when we found a course of action that worked, which we never did. Jesus, through our Pastor, did it overnight. Bless God!!

Zee Wrote:I agree with you 100%. I think often people overlook miracles and continue to deny God though. If a person does not acknowledge miracles then I don't think there is anything that I can do to convince them.

Queenie Wrote:

Zee Wrote:I agree with you 100%. I think often people overlook miracles and continue to deny God though. If a person does not acknowledge miracles then I don't think there is anything that I can do to convince them.

You don't have to try and convince them Zee, He won't give up. I guarantee you there are several people in this world that once thought of themselves as atheists, but through His power of miracles, His glory now shines through them and they are believers.

Zee Wrote:I enjoy discussing such things because I think it is good for for me personally to organize my thoughts in regards to my beliefs. I am not so naive to think I will change anyone else opinions... I leave that to God like you were referring to. I also doubt anyone really thinks they will change mine.

Queenie Wrote:

Zee Wrote:I enjoy discussing such things because I think it is good for for me personally to organize my thoughts in regards to my beliefs. I am not so naive to think I will change anyone else opinions... I leave that to God like you were referring to. I also doubt anyone really thinks they will change mine.

Funny thing, huh . . . yeah, and nobody will ever change my mind as well. I am, however, always up for clarification on some issues. The Pastor I was referring to that laid hands on my daughter heads up a motorcycle church and the Tennesee Motorcycle Ministries. If you get a chance sometime, look up Ron Baptiste, Covenant Confirmers Ministries.

Zee Wrote:Are they connected at all to the Christian Motorcycle Association? I used to ride with the CMA weekly but I haven't been on a motorcycle in a while. Motorcycle ministries seem to be very effective.

wingospagettio Wrote:My question for those that do not believe in God. Do you celebrate Christmas? Though it is now a *blech*commercial holiday, it started as a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. Just wondering if giving up things like that are part of the philosophy.

Zee Wrote:

kaboobie92 Wrote:When you are talking about our GOD please use a little more respect. We respect you, please respect us. Especially the drunk part.

I'm the one that is supposed to be easily offended and I don't read what he said as being disrespectful of God. His argument was that God would have to justify not telling his followers about aliens... his statement helped explain this coming up with a hypothetical way God would explain it.

Zee Wrote:

speedbump Wrote:Would you care to acknowledge my evolution post?

You are talking micro-evolution. From what I understand most Christians who have a problem with evolution don't believe in macro-evolution. Personally I don't think either mico-evolution or macro-evolution is contradicted by the Bible.

Zee Wrote:

speedbump Wrote:I want you to explain how, after only two people were left in the story of Noah's Ark, they could have repopulated the Earth and different races and cultures developed after 5000 years. You must believe that story, since you said the bible was 100% factual. I get that you believe in evolution, but this has nothing to do with that. You are avoiding my question. If you say that the story is an anecdote, then you do not believe it is 100% factual. You could believe everything it contains are "truths", but not facts.

The Bible explains that very clearly. There were not just two people but there were eight people after the flood. People lived longer back then and had a lot of children. I do believe it is 100% factual.

providencecrow Wrote:

Zee Wrote:The Bible explains that very clearly. There were not just two people but there were eight people after the flood. People lived longer back then and had a lot of children. I do believe it is 100% factual.

If you want me to do the math on this, I will, but even though in the past humanity has been known for having tons and tons of children, the reason was that the majority of them didn't make it very far along in life. In order for in 5000 years the population to go from 8 to several billion, youre talking of a Zap Brannigan's dream style mating system.

The fossil record also does not show a mass near extinction of humanity 5000 years ago. But that's the easy proof against Noah's story.


And to go with the whole miracle talk, if God did want to prove to us that he can cure disease or help people through prayer, he just needs to perform one simple miracle to convince everyone: Just give one amputee a limb back.

Zee Wrote:

speedbump Wrote:I want you to explain how, after only two people were left in the story of Noah's Ark, they could have repopulated the Earth and different races and cultures developed after 5000 years. You must believe that story, since you said the bible was 100% factual. I get that you believe in evolution, but this has nothing to do with that. You are avoiding my question. If you say that the story is an anecdote, then you do not believe it is 100% factual. You could believe everything it contains are "truths", but not facts.

The Bible explains that very clearly. There were not just two people but there were eight people after the flood. People lived longer back then and had a lot of children. I do believe it is 100% factual.

speedbump Wrote:

Zee Wrote:The Bible explains that very clearly. There were not just two people but there were eight people after the flood. People lived longer back then and had a lot of children. I do believe it is 100% factual.

That doesn't explain the various races. Were the 8 people all of a different race too?

Zee Wrote:

speedbump Wrote:That doesn't explain the various races. Were the 8 people all of a different race too?

I don't know what races they were. The Bible does not even use the word race in reference to people... it describes them as being of "one blood." They were all part of the human race. I don't even know why that needs to be explained. The wives of Noah's sons were not from the same family as Noah and most likely had different physical features... not to mention its possible that all three sons had different physical features.