We have all become too sensitive

[Biff]

2. If my kid wants to dress like a gangsta, I might not like it, but I don't think I would put up a huge fuss. I dressed like an idiot in school, too. A lot of people did. So what? Who cares? It has no bearing whatsoever on what kinda career he'll have, or who he'll marry, or how many kids he'll have. So I might tell him he looks like a moron, but I'll say it with a smile.

When you dressed like an idiot you probably wore tight jeans, white hi-tops with the tongues out, black concert shirts and a leather jacket, right? The people you emulated weren't good role models but they weren't exactly provokers of violence.

This trend of dressing like a gangsta stems from the ignorant music whose message is to use women, beat them, and treat them like "ho's". They glorify using a gun to force your opinions and kill/steal, to not co-operate with law enforcement on any level, and the constant denigration of anyone viewed as a rival.

[Queenie]

Sagging/grunge was in when my 19 and 22 year olds were in jr. high/high school. I would not let them wear those types of clothes. They wore what I brought them. I think our job as parents (and yes it is a job) is to teach our children to function in an adult world. By letting our children "be individuals" we would be allowing them to behave in an ill-mannered type of behavior. All those fads in fashion, i.e. grunge, goth, etc., are a sign of a cult or gang. What parent would want their child to be a follower of some stupid cult/gang. Going along with everything the members want to say and do. If people want to let their children do and wear what they want, they are setting themselves up for a great heartache. You can use the old "they can't be controlled forever." Well they will as long as their asses are under my roof. I will be the controller of my children. I will know where they are and who they are with. I will watch their activities with a microscope, because if I don't they are left to raise themselves. That is what is wrong with our society today. Parents do not handle the daily lives of their children because they are too wrapped up in their own lives or just plain lazy. If you don't want to raise them, don't have them.

[airhornahole]

Sagging/grunge was in when my 19 and 22 year olds were in jr. high/high school. I would not let them wear those types of clothes. They wore what I brought them. I think our job as parents (and yes it is a job) is to teach our children to function in an adult world. By letting our children "be individuals" we would be allowing them to behave in an ill-mannered type of behavior. All those fads in fashion, i.e. grunge, goth, etc., are a sign of a cult or gang. What parent would want their child to be a follower of some stupid cult/gang. Going along with everything the members want to say and do. If people want to let their children do and wear what they want, they are setting themselves up for a great heartache. You can use the old "they can't be controlled forever." Well they will as long as their asses are under my roof. I will be the controller of my children. I will know where they are and who they are with. I will watch their activities with a microscope, because if I don't they are left to raise themselves. That is what is wrong with our society today. Parents do not handle the daily lives of their children because they are too wrapped up in their own lives, too interested in being their "friend", afraid to discipline, or just plain lazy. If you don't want to raise them, don't have them.

beautiful +1.

I would just add the one comment. Adn by discipline, I don't mean beat.

[Queenie]

Sagging/grunge was in when my 19 and 22 year olds were in jr. high/high school. I would not let them wear those types of clothes. They wore what I brought them. I think our job as parents (and yes it is a job) is to teach our children to function in an adult world. By letting our children "be individuals" we would be allowing them to behave in an ill-mannered type of behavior. All those fads in fashion, i.e. grunge, goth, etc., are a sign of a cult or gang. What parent would want their child to be a follower of some stupid cult/gang. Going along with everything the members want to say and do. If people want to let their children do and wear what they want, they are setting themselves up for a great heartache. You can use the old "they can't be controlled forever." Well they will as long as their asses are under my roof. I will be the controller of my children. I will know where they are and who they are with. I will watch their activities with a microscope, because if I don't they are left to raise themselves. That is what is wrong with our society today. Parents do not handle the daily lives of their children because they are too wrapped up in their own lives, too interested in being their "friend", afraid to discipline, or just plain lazy. If you don't want to raise them, don't have them.

beautiful +1.

I would just add the one comment. Adn by discipline, I don't mean beat.

+1 right back at ya. Yes you are exactly right. I meant to include that.

Edit: By discipline I don't mean beat, but I do spank my children. Hell we got beat and turned out okay.

[airhornahole]

beautiful +1.

I would just add the one comment. Adn by discipline, I don't mean beat.

+1 right back at ya. Yes you are exactly right. I meant to include that.

Edit: By discipline I don't mean beat, but I do spank my children. Hell we got beat and turned out okay.

Beat and spank and two different things

[speedbump]

18 year olds aren't allowed to express their viewpoints anymore?

What the hell did he say that was so "pretentious and condescending"? He said he thought plunger's view was distorted. How is that in any way "pretentious and condescending"? It's an opinion. Even 18 year olds are allowed to have them.

He can express his viewpoints all he'd like (nice strawman).

What he said was pretentious and condescending because it was just so dismissive. It was elitist in nature.

Admit it, at 18 you thought you knew everything too. Then life set in.

I never said I knew everything (nice strawman).

[mainerliser]

beautiful +1.

I would just add the one comment. Adn by discipline, I don't mean beat.

+1 right back at ya. Yes you are exactly right. I meant to include that.

Edit: By discipline I don't mean beat, but I do spank my children. Hell we got beat and turned out okay.

It's good to hear that other parents discipline their children too. I swear some days I feel like the only one that still does that. My children know the difference between right and wrong. And you're right Queenie! I WILL know where they are, who they are with, and what they are doing. They WILL NOT go out on school nights, be disrespectful to adults, and slack their responsibilities. And that is another big point...teaching responsibility. I don't think that happens anymore either. What happened to real parenting? I could go on and on but my original point was, it's nice to see someone else takes parenting seriously.

Off my soapbox!

[fistor!@#]

I thinks it's a great idea to try to control everything my kids say and do. What they wear, what they watch, and how they talk, too. I will start ruling over them with an iron fist immediately. Surely they will never rebel against my hardline dictatorship, like I did with my parents. As long as I don't let them ever live their own lives or have any freedom whatsover, I think everything will turn out great.

Surely me controlling every aspect of their lives is perfect training for them to live in the real world.

[Biff]

Hey! Look who found the hyperbole button!

[Biff]

I never said I knew everything (nice strawman).

Surely you must understand that an 18 year old lecturing a 40 something widower with 5 kids, a wife, and a mortgage about his world views gives this impression.

[speedbump]

I never said I knew everything (nice strawman).

Surely you must understand that an 18 year old lecturing a 40 something widower with 5 kids, a wife, and a mortgage about his world views gives this impression.

So I'm lecturing now? Look at me go. I can give a "lecture" in, what was that, like two sentences?

[Queenie]

Surely you must understand that an 18 year old lecturing a 40 something widower with 5 kids, a wife, and a mortgage about his world views gives this impression.

So I'm lecturing now? Look at me go. I can give a "lecture" in, what was that, like two sentences?

Are you going to sit there and syntax us to death, or are you actually going to post an opinion or rebuttal? Which one are you, Obama or McCain?

[plungerhand]

I thinks it's a great idea to try to control everything my kids say and do. What they wear, what they watch, and how they talk, too. I will start ruling over them with an iron fist immediately. Surely they will never rebel against my hardline dictatorship, like I did with my parents. As long as I don't let them ever live their own lives or have any freedom whatsover, I think everything will turn out great.

Surely me controlling every aspect of their lives is perfect training for them to live in the real world.

There is a happy meduim between controlling and turning a blind eye. What i was referring to, was the kids I see walking the streets of West Nashville, and Springfield(TN) and various other communities I frequent. When there are 5 police just to keep the peace at a JR High School football game somebody has to recognize there is a problem with the youth today. Not the lil' Fistor's or anybody else's children on this board. It's always somebody else's kids...

[Mad Dog]

Plungerhand wrote:

There is a happy meduim between controlling and turning a blind eye.

Yes, and the thing I have always tried to do as a parent to accomplish this is to assume that at what ever age my child was, that they are highly intelligent and capable of comprehension, but that they just don't know yet. I think this approach is good because it doesn't patronize your child and it allows room for them to make their own decisions yet still have alot of parental in-put.

[fistor!@#]

I thinks it's a great idea to try to control everything my kids say and do. What they wear, what they watch, and how they talk, too. I will start ruling over them with an iron fist immediately. Surely they will never rebel against my hardline dictatorship, like I did with my parents. As long as I don't let them ever live their own lives or have any freedom whatsover, I think everything will turn out great.

Surely me controlling every aspect of their lives is perfect training for them to live in the real world.

There is a happy meduim between controlling and turning a blind eye. What i was referring to, was the kids I see walking the streets of West Nashville, and Springfield(TN) and various other communities I frequent. When there are 5 police just to keep the peace at a JR High School football game somebody has to recognize there is a problem with the youth today. Not the lil' Fistor's or anybody else's children on this board. It's always somebody else's kids...

There are cops walking around our high school football games, too. Not dismissing the idea that you may have a much more serious gang problem there than we have here, I don't know. Just saying cops at football games isn't an uncommon sight.

There definitely is a happy medium between controlling and turning a blind eye, and I think the vast majority of parents fall in that happy medium. I was concerned about Queenie's comments about her kids being under a microscope while they're under her roof. That seemed a bit on the controlling side of the spectrum. I have experience, unfortuntately, in this area. My mother and father tried to control my every move (strangely, they did allow me to dress like an idiot, though), and I haven't spoken to either of them in onver 2 years. I can honestly tell you that I do not like my parents, in the least. Kids rebel, some sooner than later, when a parent tries to take away their freedom on a grand scale. You may think that you're trying to protect them, but you can't smother them.

I'm sure I read Queenie's post wrong, and that she really didn't mean to say she fully intends to control every aspect of her kids lives, but that's really how it came across.

What also came across was the idea that if a parent doesn't adopt this iron-fisted approach, he or she is turning a blind eye. Absolutely untrue, of course. Happy medium words.

Oh, and also - apparently several of you think that a kid who dresses in baggy clothes and wears tilted ball caps is somehow trying to emulate a gang member. I don't see that. I see a kid dressing in the Hip Hop fashion. Believe it or not, Hip Hop is not all about gangbangin' and hos. To believe that is sheer ignorance. It's like saying every kid who listens to Heavy Metal has a bent toward Satanism. Equally ridiculous.

[Queenie]

I don't have an iron fist, fistor, I have a watchful eye. I do watch and listen to my children. They have their "free" time, but I know where they are and who they are with. In our community, maybe not yours, there is a lot of peer pressure to tempt our children.

The ballgame I went to the other night was a Jr. High game, 6th, 7th and 8th graders, and it was a complete quandry eff. Kids running around, fighting, knocking other people down, and their parents were NO where to be seen. I am just saying that as long as my children are under my roof and until they reach the age of adulthood, they will abide by my rules. They will also act like they were raised, with manners and courtesy. It is hard for me to believe that keeping the reins on a child would promote rebellious behavior. I talk frequently to all 8 of my children and know what is going on in their lives. Even the 2 that are out of the house (19 and 22). But they also know that Momma has been through a lot in her 42 years and is quite experienced when it comes to life, a hell of a lot more than a 3-22 year old.

[Mad Dog]

Since Queenie and Plunger Hand are married, it sounds like they are pretty much on the same page when it comes to raising kids. And that is pretty much ninety percent of the battle when it comes to raising kids. Trust me I know. Exactly that problem was ninety percent of the reason why I'm divorced and why we bickered so heavily.

[mainerliser]

Fistor, there is a big difference in having an "iron fist" and discipline. I teach my kids right and wrong, cosequences for wrongs, and responsibility. I don't govern their every move, but I do expect to know where they are, who they are with, and what they are doing. That is an involved parent. They may rebel, but there still will be consequences.

Working for many years in a pediatric practice, the biggest problems I saw were parents no disciplining their children, and giving them too much freedom in an effort to be a "friend". You are no friend to your children if you don't teach them responsibility.

[fistor!@#]

Fistor, there is a big difference in having an "iron fist" and discipline.

I know that, thanks.

[mainerliser]

Fistor, there is a big difference in having an "iron fist" and discipline.

I know that, thanks.

How very dismissive of you. I'm hurt. :-[

[fistor!@#]

I know that, thanks.

How very dismissive of you. I'm hurt. :-[

I think I'm all typed out, until I locate more beer.

Basically, everything you said I agree with and I don't believe I said anything to the contrary. I can't stand when there is no discipline whatsoever in a child's life, or parents who only want to be buds with their kids. That's one end of the spectrum, and the other end is the iron-fist rule over kids. Neither of these "methods" work.

[Queenie]

Hey Fistor, I pick and choose my battles. I applaud good and try to stay away from the bad. I have seen parents that only focus on the bad and never look at the good. I am not saying that your parents were that way. I can see how, if parents were that way, kids could end up rebelling. I stay involved in my childrens lives not only because I don't want to miss anything, but because I have to know what is going on. Call me an overstrict parent, call me obsessive. I call me a concerned parent who loves their children very, very much. Sorry if I came across any other way Fistor.

[fistor!@#]

Hey Fistor, I pick and choose my battles. I applaud good and try to stay away from the bad. I have seen parents that only focus on the bad and never look at the good. I am not saying that your parents were that way. I can see how, if parents were that way, kids could end up rebelling. I stay involved in my childrens lives not only because I don't want to miss anything, but because I have to know what is going on. Call me an overstrict parent, call me obsessive. I call me a concerned parent who loves their children very, very much. Sorry if I came across any other way Fistor.

This sounds a lot more like how I am. Yes, all my parents did was focus on bad, so much so that they found bad when there wasn't any. I'm seriously considering writing a book about my life with my parents. The shit they put me through might blow your hair back.

Sounds like we're back on the same page. Wanna make out?


(i've been successful in my quest for more beer)

[mainerliser]

Hey Fistor, I pick and choose my battles. I applaud good and try to stay away from the bad. I have seen parents that only focus on the bad and never look at the good. I am not saying that your parents were that way. I can see how, if parents were that way, kids could end up rebelling. I stay involved in my childrens lives not only because I don't want to miss anything, but because I have to know what is going on. Call me an overstrict parent, call me obsessive. I call me a concerned parent who loves their children very, very much. Sorry if I came across any other way Fistor.

This sounds a lot more like how I am. Yes, all my parents did was focus on bad, so much so that they found bad when there wasn't any. I'm seriously considering writing a book about my life with my parents. The shit they put me through might blow your hair back.

Sounds like we're back on the same page. Wanna make out?


(i've been successful in my quest for more beer)

Awwww...you're not going to invite me? Now I must find beer....runs away crying!

[fistor!@#]

You have to fight before you indulge in a make up make out.

Say something to piss me off and I'll see what I can do.

[dingdongyo]

there are so many words here. i don't think i have anything of value to add. so i'm just going to be stupid:

Beat and spank and two different things

not the way i do it....

[mikesmalltalk]

We can all understand parents being over protective in our society but after a while you have to cut the chain, Until i was about 14 my parents contolled soo much of my life and i thank them for it, But then they gradually let me make my own choices and yes, i hung out with the wrong people, yes i did some stupid crap which i somewhat regret but still, i made my OWN choices
If you baby and overprotect your kids for too long they are gonna hate you for it. Yes, try to keep them on the right path but also let them make their own mistakes. I know my parents loved me and my kids know i love them but crap happens in life, you just gotta take it and move on

[fistor!@#]

We can all understand parents being over protective in our society but after a while you have to cut the chain, Until i was about 14 my parents contolled soo much of my life and i thank them for it, But then they gradually let me make my own choices and yes, i hung out with the wrong people, yes i did some stupid crap which i somewhat regret but still, i made my OWN choices
If you baby and overprotect your kids for too long they are gonna hate you for it. Yes, try to keep them on the right path but also let them make their own mistakes. I know my parents loved me and my kids know i love them but crap happens in life, you just gotta take it and move on

Thanks Mike's Mall Talk!

[mainerliser]

We can all understand parents being over protective in our society but after a while you have to cut the chain, Until i was about 14 my parents contolled soo much of my life and i thank them for it, But then they gradually let me make my own choices and yes, i hung out with the wrong people, yes i did some stupid crap which i somewhat regret but still, i made my OWN choices
If you baby and overprotect your kids for too long they are gonna hate you for it. Yes, try to keep them on the right path but also let them make their own mistakes. I know my parents loved me and my kids know i love them but crap happens in life, you just gotta take it and move on

Thanks Mike's Mall Talk!

Thanks nothing!! I never said I babied my kids!! Quite the opposite. My kids have chores etc. They make their own decisions and if they make the wrong one they pay the consequences!

Fistor, you're a dork! (how's that? Now can we make out?) :-*

[speedbump]

So I'm lecturing now? Look at me go. I can give a "lecture" in, what was that, like two sentences?

Are you going to sit there and syntax us to death, or are you actually going to post an opinion or rebuttal? Which one are you, Obama or McCain?

I'm neither, obviously. They have much better things to do than argue on an internet message board.

So I guess I'm going to syntax you to death, since that's all my argument with Biff has been about in this thread, and I don't see you calling him out on it.

[mikesmalltalk]

Thanks Mike's Mall Talk!

Thanks nothing!! I never said I babied my kids!! Quite the opposite. My kids have chores etc. They make their own decisions and if they make the wrong one they pay the consequences!

Fistor, you're a dork! (how's that? Now can we make out?) :-*

Hell, i wasnt singlin anyone out when i wrote that, but if u automatically think im goin after u then do what u want :-X

[airhornahole]

All I know is that I, and many others, can easily tell the difference between kids who are disciplined and those that aren't. I let my kids make their own choices. However, my wife and I maintain the option to overthrow those choices if we determine them to be detrimental to their physical and / or mental well being. Do we let them do stupid things to "learn a lesson", yes. But there is a limit as to where we stop them. We feel and believe that if the kids conduct themselves in an honest, respective manner now, they will be better prepared for adulthood.

[mainerliser]

Thanks nothing!! I never said I babied my kids!! Quite the opposite. My kids have chores etc. They make their own decisions and if they make the wrong one they pay the consequences!

Fistor, you're a dork! (how's that? Now can we make out?) :-*

Hell, i wasnt singlin anyone out when i wrote that, but if u automatically think im goin after u then do what u want :-X

I was trying to get Fistor mad so we could make up make out! Duh!

[residentialevil]

This may sound a bit harsh, but I honestly quit caring about "racism" a long time ago, when the term became so broad that almost everything can be made into racism. And when I see that people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson can say and do whatever racist things they want but somehow because the judges of racism in America and now can shakedown anyone they want.

Real racism sucks, and yes I think it sitll exists, but I get a bit tired of all the "outrage" over things.