Religion or math - which is more concrete?

[Allyson]

So my boyfriend and I are constantly having this argument and he simply cannot see my point of view.

Argument 1: Math is bullshit. It is a set of theories based on these "numbers" that are all made up in the first place. Some guy called this thing "one", "two", etc. and the rest goes from there. It's all made up.

Argument 2: Religion is bullshit. People made up stories based on fiction centuries ago to explain the inexplicable and instill fear in the public. Religion is a fictional story.

So which side are you on? Or are both bull?

K thx.

[dingdongyo]

hmm...
both are made up. math is functional on a practical basis. religion is functional on a social basis.
since math doesn't demand pointless worship, math wins.

[Allyson]

I'm a math person who never understood religion. My point is, if you are going to say that math is made up then language is made up as well.

[Biff]

"Religion" as an option is far too vague.

[dingdongyo]

I'm a math person who never understood religion. My point is, if you are going to say that math is made up then language is made up as well.

that makes sense. and i like this question.
as far as the purpose of religion, i do think it has social positives like charity, conscience, etc. not that religion is necessary to believe in humanity, but i think that's where those positives originally came from.
where did language enter this argument? as a way of spreading religion?

"Religion" as an option is far too vague.

i took this to mean "belief in a god or higher power than humanity in general."

[Allyson]

I'm a math person who never understood religion. My point is, if you are going to say that math is made up then language is made up as well.

that makes sense. and i like this question.
as far as the purpose of religion, i do think it has social positives like charity, conscience, etc. not that religion is necessary to believe in humanity, but i think that's where those positives originally came from.
where did language enter this argument? as a way of spreading religion?

No, his argument is that math is made up because numbers are made up. "Why do we call it TWO leaves instead of THESE leaves?" So based on that I conclude that if numbers are made up then so are letters and words.

"Religion" as an option is far too vague.

i took this to mean "belief in a god or higher power than humanity in general."

Basically yea. I'm talking mainly the big religions like Islam, Judaism, Christianity, etc.

[dingdongyo]

No, his argument is that math is made up because numbers are made up. "Why do we call it TWO leaves instead of THESE leaves?" So based on that I conclude that if numbers are made up then so are letters and words.

your boyfriend is being stupid. of course they are both made up. you don't see any other animals using "two" or "these" in conversation. because we made them the eff up.
and as far as his question:
"two leaves" = .
"these leaves" = ... ? ........ ???

that's why.

[-Jiggy-]

The words themselves for math are made up but universally * + ** = ***
and nothing can ever change it. It's law! I actually once seen a book where all
some dude did was prove why 1+2=3. I'm sure that would be fun reading.

[beckyp]

i can solve X, whereas i cannot solve what was being smoked when they wrote the bible so....math pwnz religion.

[providencecrow]

You are forgetting the other similarity between the two: Both math and religion can be manipulated to say or demonstrate anything you want.

But to be fair, i have a lot more faith in numbers than i do in stories that have been translated time and time again over thousands of years. At least math attempts to have proof behind what it claims, religion seems to use the circular logic of "Well its in the bible so its the word of god so it's true because the bible said that it is true"

At least i can prove that 1+1 = 2 (although id rather not, that proof is long, annoying, and way too unnecessary haha)

[dingdongyo]

You are forgetting the other similarity between the two: Both math and religion can be manipulated to say or demonstrate anything you want.

i'm not so sure math can be manipulated... math has rules. the only way to manipulate math is starting with incorrect figures or calculating wrong. much like zane's nascar math.
can you make an example that i'm not thinking of?

[providencecrow]

i'm not so sure math can be manipulated... math has rules. the only way to manipulate math is starting with incorrect figures or calculating wrong. much like zane's nascar math.
can you make an example that i'm not thinking of?

I was more implying statistics, because that is true, you can basically plug in any numbers and get any result you want if you manipulate them enough.

It was more just a lame attempt at a joke than anything, you win, i lose.

[khef]

It's basically all parallel. There are variables in both that can always change things.

[Mad Dog]

I suck at math and religion.

[dingdongyo]

i'm not so sure math can be manipulated... math has rules. the only way to manipulate math is starting with incorrect figures or calculating wrong. much like zane's nascar math.
can you make an example that i'm not thinking of?

I was more implying statistics, because that is true, you can basically plug in any numbers and get any result you want if you manipulate them enough.

It was more just a lame attempt at a joke than anything, you win, i lose.

i feel stupid when i stomp on jokes.

[airhornahole]

i'm not so sure math can be manipulated... math has rules. the only way to manipulate math is starting with incorrect figures or calculating wrong. much like zane's nascar math.
can you make an example that i'm not thinking of?

I was more implying statistics, because that is true, you can basically plug in any numbers and get any result you want if you manipulate them enough.

It was more just a lame attempt at a joke than anything, you win, i lose.

In these cases, the math is correct. It's the idiot manipulating the numbers by making assumptions or only using information they perceive to be correct that is wrong.

Math onto itself can't be incorrect. However, the person can use it incorrectly.

Anything built on faith, cannot be concrete.

[providencecrow]

I was more implying statistics, because that is true, you can basically plug in any numbers and get any result you want if you manipulate them enough.

It was more just a lame attempt at a joke than anything, you win, i lose.

In these cases, the math is correct. It's the ambulance driver manipulating the numbers by making assumptions or only using information they perceive to be correct that is wrong.

Math onto itself can't be incorrect. However, the person can use it incorrectly.

Anything built on faith, cannot be concrete.

Nice one, Socrates

[krystal]

I tend to stay the hell away from them both.

[Mad Dog]

I probably understand the Bible more than I do Algebra. I've read the thing about seven times cover to cover. Algebra may as well be an Alien language.

[speedbump]

I probably understand the Bible more than I do Algebra. I've read the thing about seven times cover to cover. Algebra may as well be an Alien language.

Understanding and memorizing are two different world's my friend. I don't think anyone understands the bible.

[Queenie]

I probably understand the Bible more than I do Algebra. I've read the thing about seven times cover to cover. Algebra may as well be an Alien language.

Understanding and memorizing are two different world's my friend. I don't think anyone understands the bible.

I don't think maddog is claiming to have memorized it. He just said he has read it 7 times. I definitely understand the Bible more than Algebra. I think any memorizing would come more with the Algebra book, which I read 7 times and still don't get. I never was a math person. Now the Bible, yes I mostly understand it.

[dingdongyo]

Understanding and memorizing are two different world's my friend. I don't think anyone understands the bible.

I don't think maddog is claiming to have memorized it. He just said he has read it 7 times. I definitely understand the Bible more than Algebra. I think any memorizing would come more with the Algebra book, which I read 7 times and still don't get. I never was a math person. Now the Bible, yes I mostly understand it.

it depends on how your head works. math and religion both prove themselves to whoever wants them to be right.

[Queenie]

I don't think maddog is claiming to have memorized it. He just said he has read it 7 times. I definitely understand the Bible more than Algebra. I think any memorizing would come more with the Algebra book, which I read 7 times and still don't get. I never was a math person. Now the Bible, yes I mostly understand it.

it depends on how your head works. math and religion both prove themselves to whoever wants them to be right.

How do you figure? You can't make yourself believe you are right if you try to say that 5 + 5 = 11. And if you can, i'm scared of you!!

[providencecrow]

it depends on how your head works. math and religion both prove themselves to whoever wants them to be right.

How do you figure? You can't make yourself believe you are right if you try to say that 5 + 5 = 11. And if you can, i'm scared of you!!

I don't know about 5+5= 11, but I can provide proof that 1 + 1 = 0 though:


[flash=350,287]http://www.youtube.com/v/ICv_0ln_yzw&hl=en[/flash]

[speedbump]

Understanding and memorizing are two different world's my friend. I don't think anyone understands the bible.

I don't think maddog is claiming to have memorized it. He just said he has read it 7 times. I definitely understand the Bible more than Algebra. I think any memorizing would come more with the Algebra book, which I read 7 times and still don't get. I never was a math person. Now the Bible, yes I mostly understand it.

If hundreds of religions can interpret the bible differently enough that they see it fit to branch off and form new religions, then I do think there is a general lack of understanding there. You and I may just be defining "understand" on two different levels.

[Queenie]

I "understand" now. Yes you are correct.

[Mad Dog]

After my "conversion experience" (also possible nervous breakdown??) I had it in my mind that if God really does exist, then I needed to know what He had to say about Himself. I sure didn't want to only hear what ministers had to say about God, not that I didn't listen to ministers. So I picked up my bible and just like any other book started at the beginning. It was a fascinating read. Granted there were dull parts and the names were funny, but I guarantee you it is absolutely unlike Any book you have ever read. Every single main character aside from one was deeply flawed. God talking to men. Men talking to God. Miracles. Wars. Famines. Murder. Incest. Marriage. Prostitution. Every human thing under the sun contained within one book. The highest of emotional highs and the lowest of lows. If you have the patience and time it definitely worth the read whether or not you believe what it says.

[dingdongyo]

How do you figure? You can't make yourself believe you are right if you try to say that 5 + 5 = 11. And if you can, i'm scared of you!!

I don't know about 5+5= 11, but I can provide proof that 1 + 1 = 0 though:


[flash=350,287]http://www.youtube.com/v/ICv_0ln_yzw&hl=en[/flash]

i hate when youtube videos take an effing year when they can get their point across in 30 seconds.
nothing against you. or the point you are making.
but this is why "i" is an "i"maginary number. it's not real. still a cool idea though.

it depends on how your head works. math and religion both prove themselves to whoever wants them to be right.

How do you figure? You can't make yourself believe you are right if you try to say that 5 + 5 = 11. And if you can, i'm scared of you!!

miss.
nobody would say that 5+5=11. unless they were purposefully being stupid. in all practical uses, math proves itself correct by it's own rules. if i take 5 of something, and put it with another 5 of something, i can tell you with 100% certainty that i will have 10 somethings. because i know math.
anybody who wants to believe in religion will find ways to justify they are right, too.

[cashmoney]

"Religion" as an option is far too vague.

Yes.

[plumpenut]

I take math over religion