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Jiggy Wrote:Are you blaming religion for your girlfriend felling like she can't be herself in front of her friends and family. Religion isn't the source for those feelings, that's just called human emotion.
Oh no, I do not blame religion at all. She is the type of person that feels she needs to make everyone happy. It's something I've tried to get her out of the habit of, to get her to stand up for herself (be it when someone pissed her off or in theological discussions), and after 3+ years, she sure doesn't have a problem laying into me (that never being an issue), but is still shy to stand up against family, friends and coworkers.
I guess my primary point was this: a friend accepts you for who you are, the reason she stated she is friends with the other girl, but if the "friend" can't handle my gf being atheist, obviously she is not much of a friend at all. (replace religion with whatever)
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lt Wrote:Jiggy Wrote:Are you blaming religion for your girlfriend felling like she can't be herself in front of her friends and family. Religion isn't the source for those feelings, that's just called human emotion.
Oh no, I do not blame religion at all. She is the type of person that feels she needs to make everyone happy. It's something I've tried to get her out of the habit of, to get her to stand up for herself (be it when someone pissed her off or in theological discussions), and after 3+ years, she sure doesn't have a problem laying into me (that never being an issue), but is still shy to stand up against family, friends and coworkers.
I guess my primary point was this: a friend accepts you for who you are, the reason she stated she is friends with the other girl, but if the "friend" can't handle my gf being atheist, obviously she is not much of a friend at all. (replace religion with whatever) My wife was the same way when we first met. She always wanted to make sure the other person was happy even if it left her feeling like crap. After living with me for years though she has become even more vocal than I am. It makes me very happy that she has come around. Although at times I think I have created a monster.
Well, I guess that we all learned a lesson today. That it's what's inside a person that counts. And that on the inside, midgets are thieving little bastards.
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LOL. I was devout catholic atage 12.Then Iwas not forced to go to Wed. and Sunday mass and Catacism. I now go to a Baptist church from time to time, and it's ok. Catholics preach "thou shall not be judge lest ye be judged. But, My God isn't it funny that they are the first to judge? What about the social cliques within the church. They are nothing but gossiping and judgmental hens that are so called "christians". People of church, not the church, have deterred me from participating. I've seen it in every church I haver ever been to. I don't like being preached at, nor do i like listening to 1.5 hours of latin.
I believe in God, Jesus and such. But I don't always agee with the bible. The bible is a book passed on from generation to generation. What happens to stories passed on and on? They end up being a little stretched from the truth. I believe in the morals instilled in me, and have a personal relationship with the man above. I need bible discussion for interpretation, but not being preached to. I respect all religions. It's unfortunate that the bad ones make their religion look bad.
I however believe in Darwinism, evolution, and other scientific facts that are presented before me. Sorry I believe, but until I see, I will not follow close.
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It's a thing of not being to speak your mind because you are conservative. The liberals have fought for too much censorship, too much protection, and over do a lot of things. It's bad, when you can't pray at work, it's bad when you can't give an opinion at work, for fear of offending another person. Top that with the fact your a Christian, it gets worse. Can't say or do what you think, I get forced several times a day to act like seeing two guys hug each other is okay at work. But if I say that a dress didn't fit appropriate or look appropriate for a corporation party, I'm written up. Yeah, Christian beliefs are held down in America, as is our freedom of speech. If you keep protesting and over sensitizing things, there will be no freedom at all.
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Good OP. I especially appreciated this point being made:
Quote:What these Christians are really lamenting is the systematic dismantling of the unconstitutional government sponsorship of their faith. Losing this favored position is causing them to cry "persecution!" To these Christians, it is persecution to treat all other faiths and non-faiths equally instead of giving Christianity the advantage. It's laughable to think that Christianity is a persecuted religion when one considers that the mass media, government, and most of the business world is run by them.
And, regarding just reading the titles of posts, or merely scanning them, it's called "TLDR" (Too long, didn't read). I occasionally get a case of that.
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They think that everyone is out to put an end to Christianity. No one said they were sane.
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Somebody thinking you are stupid and not listening to you is not persecution. And trying to get religious beliefs out of the political arena is not persecution either. But someone burning your house down or murdering your family because you are a Christian, now that's persecution!!
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As an atheist, I do have to say that I don't have a problem with religion, at all. You can talk about it, I'd rather not hear about it, but I wouldn't say anything. The only time I have a problem with religion is if someone is trying to convert me. Then we have issues, and despite the fact that I am non-confrontational to the extreme (in real life, the internet doesn't count), I will say something.
Sometimes it just seems that some Christians are giving up what most other religions never had. When was the last time you heard students in a public school class discussing the Qu'ran or Buddhism without it being mentioned in a textbook?
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scooterfanatic Wrote:Taken from my blog at http://www.godless-heathen.com/2008/07/l...ution.html
Certain Christian elements in the media today are perpetuating a myth, a lie, that their religion is somehow under attack. Christian conservative commentator Bill O'Reilly calls it a "Culture War." He cites the fact that businesses are not using the phrase "Merry Christmas" but instead "Happy Holidays" during winter solstice season as proof that reverence to God is going by the wayside, that Christian "values" are under attack by "secularists." Also cited is the fact that compulsory school prayer met it's end in the 1960's.
One of the greatest lies ever told by these Christians is that prayer was removed from public schools. It is completely and utterly untrue. Every public school student is 100% free to express their religious beliefs, to pray whenever and however they wish, and to even hold and organize bible clubs. When I attended public school, I remember a 6th grade teacher of mine who had a Bible prominently displayed on his desk. He made the point that even though he wasn't allowed to teach it in the context of religious instruction (although he did use it for historical purposes), the constitution allowed him to have it.
Christians lost zero freedom to practice their religion in 1963. Christian children were and are still absolutely free to pray in school. What the O'Hair case did was remove mandatory, coerced prayer from school. The case merely changed the status of prayer from mandatory to voluntary. So if what these Christians want is mandatory school prayer, why don't they move to Saudi Arabia? Oh, that's right! The forced, mandatory prayer in Saudi Arabia is not of the religion they prefer and it's not to the God they worship. For some reason, it's only okay to force children to pray if it's to the God you happen to worship!
What these Christians are really lamenting is the systematic dismantling of the unconstitutional government sponsorship of their faith. Losing this favored position is causing them to cry "persecution!" To these Christians, it is persecution to treat all other faiths and non-faiths equally instead of giving Christianity the advantage. It's laughable to think that Christianity is a persecuted religion when one considers that the mass media, government, and most of the business world is run by them.
What's really happening here is that Christians are noticing their children aren't praying on their own in school. They're not thinking about God and they're not thinking about the Church. These Christians now want the government to step in and force their children, along with all those who may not share their beliefs, to pray and practice the preferred religion. This is the same motivation that stops alcohol and cars from being sold on Sundays in certain places. They are trying to use the government as a moral enforcer, even against those who don't share the same beliefs.
We've seen what governments are like when combined with religion, and there has never been a good result. From the Christianity-dominated middle ages to the Islamic terrorist states like Saudi Arabia; when one religion uses the government to enforce it's rules on the rest of the population, even if that population's majority shares the same beliefs, violence and brutality take hold and freedom dies a slow, painful death.
It's not my problem if you can't get your parishoners to stop drinking, or your children to pray before they eat lunch at school. Don't make me or my children conform to your rules. I have the right to decide how I'm going to live, and I have the right to decide what rules my children will live under. My children have the right to decide if they're going to follow those rules and I have the right to decide the punishments for breaking them. Forcing your religion on me through governmental interference to remedy your wayward followers goes against everything for which the principles of freedom and this country stand.
Our founding fathers chose "E Pluribus Unum," not "In God We Trust" as our country's motto. This nation was to be a haven from the state churches of Europe, where religious belief was compulsory. It saddens me that some Christians want to make their local and federal governments into a sort of modern-day "state church." We are a nation of many ideals, many religions, many philosophies, and many beliefs, united under the banner of freedom. Never could there be a more perfect way to describe us than that motto on the great seal, a motto that means in English "Out of many, one."
If you think that Christianity around the world is not under attack you have your head buried in the sand. Why don't you ask the people of Angola, Mozambique, Nigeria, South Africa, Sudan, Zambia, Zimbabwe and the Congo if Christians are not slaughtered for being Christian. The same can be said for the entire Middle East. I am sorry but you are very out of touch with current events and if you want to deny this is happening around the globe that's fine. The truth is in your face if you would just open your eyes. Ridiculous to deny the obvious.
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lokizilla Wrote:It's a thing of not being to speak your mind because you are conservative. The liberals have fought for too much censorship, too much protection, and over do a lot of things. It's bad, when you can't pray at work, it's bad when you can't give an opinion at work, for fear of offending another person. Top that with the fact your a Christian, it gets worse. Can't say or do what you think, I get forced several times a day to act like seeing two guys hug each other is okay at work. But if I say that a dress didn't fit appropriate or look appropriate for a corporation party, I'm written up. Yeah, Christian beliefs are held down in America, as is our freedom of speech. If you keep protesting and over sensitizing things, there will be no freedom at all.
So, you're mad because people are too sensitive over your oversensitivity?
Praying at work and wearing your religion on your sleeve is your constitutional right, my friend. Try it. If they fire you, sue their ass. But just because you get to say whatever you want doesn't mean that everybody else has to like it and agree.
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powerface71 Wrote:If you think that Christianity around the world is not under attack you have your head buried in the sand. Why don't you ask the people of Angola, Mozambique, Nigeria, South Africa, Sudan, Zambia, Zimbabwe and the Congo if Christians are not slaughtered for being Christian. The same can be said for the entire Middle East. I am sorry but you are very out of touch with current events and if you want to deny this is happening around the globe that's fine. The truth is in your face if you would just open your eyes. Ridiculous to deny the obvious.
I don't think that, as I'm referring to the western world. The examples you've brought up are examples of Islam persecuting Christianity. It actually strengthens my point. The reason those Christians are being persecuted is BECAUSE the religions there are tied up with the government. The government is being used to enforce ISLAMIC law on the entire population, muslim or not.
If you don't think Christianity in general is capable of the exact same thing (which history has already proven it is), then YOU are the one with your head buried in the sand.
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