Offended by the American Flag?

[residentialevil]

Seriously?

And what's with the coward busniesses bending over backwards for idiots like this?

[BWN 7]

I don't blame the business(s) so much as I do us and our legislators/lawyers. WTF have we become that a company would fear lawsuits/bad press/going out of business (terrible economy, remember) more than fearing the loss of their patriotism/soul/rights and cowtow to this fuckhead's complaints?!?!?

[Howie Feltersnatch]

technically the flag isn't supposed to be used as 'decoration' like a wall hanging.

"The flag should not be used as a drapery, or for covering a speakers desk, draping a platform, or for any decoration in general. Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top"

[residentialevil]

technically the flag isn't supposed to be used as 'decoration' like a wall hanging.

"The flag should not be used as a drapery, or for covering a speakers desk, draping a platform, or for any decoration in general. Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top"

Maybe, but that sure as heck isn't the reason the other person is "offended" by it.

[Allyson]

This made me so mad I can't even form words.

[dgfreak]

I found this article when I googled the story after catching the show half way through this morning:

North Texas Woman Told to Take Down American Flag in Office

A hospital supervisor in Mansfield says she was unfairly targeted by her boss because she hung an American flag in her office for Memorial Day.

Debbie McLucas of Kindred Hospital in Mansfield wanted to do something special to honor her husband and son who both served their country and her daughter who's currently fighting in Iraq. She brought a 3 foot by 5 foot American flag to hang in her office at Kindred Hospital, and that bothered one of her supervisors.

"I find it very frightening because if I can't display my flag, what other freedoms will I lose before all is said and done?" McLucas said.

McLucas tells KRLD News one supervisor who was not born in this country was offended and raised a stink about her flag. McLucas was told by higher-ups the flag outside the building would have to do, and that patients and visitors had complained, too. [/quote]

The parent company of Kindred Hospital in Mansfield has issued a statement, saying the disagreement was between two employees "over the size of the flag, not what it symbolizes." She says the supervisor and the worker both have active family members in the military. A company spokeswoman says they're trying to get the issue resolved as quickly as possible and that they've invited McLucas to re-hang her flag.

It sounds to me as though the supervisor who complained was probably more upset about the way the flag was being used, or the size of the flag and NOT what it represented. This had nothing to do with the supervisor's nationality, or lack of respect for the flag. In fact, according to this article the supervisor who complained has family serving in the military, as well. Maybe this person was offended at the way the flag being hung improperly?

When I heard this on the radio this morning, I had a feeling there was more to it. I'm sort of let down by the guys for jumping on the media bandwagon of automatically assuming that this was a slam on America and yet another reason to attack anyone who might have a differing opinion on something.

[landmammaldolphin]

I actually have to agree with DG.

It's easy to jump on the "attack anything that doesn't seem patriotic" bandwagon, but what we have to realize is that the Hospital has every right to ask her to take her flag down for any reason and she has no rights to free speech while on the company property. If she had an Obama or McCain bumper sticker on her car they can ask her to remove them as well.

Another article I read stated that where her office is located is a shared cubicle area. I don't know for sure if that is true but if it is, she has to respect other people's and shared spaces. A small flag on her desk would have served the same purpose.

I am in no way saying that the flag should be taken down because it is "offensive" to someone else. If you are offended by our flag, maybe you should seriously look at your choice of living here. I am also not condoning the fact that it was allegedly put on the floor when it was taken down as that is just not acceptable which is what we learned in elementary school. What I am saying is that we need to respect others peoples space and realize that when we are at work we are on the company's property and have to abide by their rules. That's simply the law.

[stopsign]

LOGIC

A++++ would read again.

[Mad Dog]

If she had an Obama or McCain bumper sticker on her car they can ask her to remove them as well.

What the Eff? I've never heard of that one before. Her car is her personal property and in my opinion nobody has the right to tell you what bumper sticker you can place on it. If they do happen to have the right to make her take off a bumper sticker, I would call this douchbagery at the least and tyranny at the most.

[zdunklee]

If she had an Obama or McCain bumper sticker on her car they can ask her to remove them as well.

What the Eff? I've never heard of that one before. Her car is her personal property and in my opinion nobody has the right to tell you what bumper sticker you can place on it. If they do happen to have the right to make her take off a bumper sticker, I would call this douchbagery at the least and tyranny at the most.

I'd tell them to take it off themselves and if they scratch the car they will pay for the damages. Then I would have a new one on the next day.

[landmammaldolphin]

Unfortunately, every employer has just that right. When your vehicle is on their property, they have every right to tell you what can and can't be on it. If you find it to be douchebaggery you can simply park elsewhere. It's the same as them putting something in the handbook that states you can't have a firearm in your vehicle when it is parked on their property. I may not agree with it, but that's how it works.

[Mad Dog]

Well dosn't that just suck. Tyranny is alive and well in America. Fortunately most employers arn't walking around looking for "offensive" bumperstickers. If my company started that bullshit I would seriously consider quiting.

[stopsign]

Do you enjoy walking around acting like the sky is falling?

[plumpenut]

its falling??? really??

[zdunklee]

Unfortunately, every employer has just that right. When your vehicle is on their property, they have every right to tell you what can and can't be on it. If you find it to be douchebaggery you can simply park elsewhere. It's the same as them putting something in the handbook that states you can't have a firearm in your vehicle when it is parked on their property. I may not agree with it, but that's how it works.

They only have every right to ask you to remove a bumper sticker only if they also ask everyone else to remove any bumper stickers they have on their vehicles. They can't legally single you out and it would have to be a company wide policy for this to even be possible.

[Mad Dog]

Do you enjoy walking around acting like the sky is falling?

Do you enjoy walking around with your head up your ass?

[MissyT]

Do you enjoy walking around acting like the sky is falling?

Do you enjoy walking around with your head up your ass?

I've been thinking the same thing. :problem:

[Allyson]

It sounds to me as though the supervisor who complained was probably more upset about the way the flag was being used, or the size of the flag and NOT what it represented.

Disagree. I don't know where you got the information for your side of the story, but I'm much more inclined to believe the guys'. Remember that story about the art students laying flags on the floor and people would just walk on them and no one cared? That type of behavior seems to be much more common than someone making a fuss about how the flag was used. Plus if this supervisor really cared about how the flag was displayed, she would not have placed it on the floor.

If she had an Obama or McCain bumper sticker on her car they can ask her to remove them as well.

While you may be right about asking someone to remove a McCain bumper sticker from their car (though that doesn't seem realistic), if someone had a Puerto Rican flag hanging from their rearview mirror, no one would say shit. That is the point.

[stopsign]

Do you enjoy walking around acting like the sky is falling?

Do you enjoy walking around with your head up your ass?

I enjoy a happy medium, where I do not lose my shit every time I hear a story that may upset me. I first consider the good chance that the story was reported on wrong, and then remember there are thousands of cases that go unreported that have the opposite result.

Sure things can be bad, but my skin isn't melting yet so I'm O.K.

[dgfreak]

[/quote]Disagree. I don't know where you got the information for your side of the story, but I'm much more inclined to believe the guys'. Remember that story about the art students laying flags on the floor and people would just walk on them and no one cared? That type of behavior seems to be much more common than someone making a fuss about how the flag was used. Plus if this supervisor really cared about how the flag was displayed, she would not have placed it on the floor.[/quote]

I got my information from googling. I believe it was <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.newsvine.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">www.newsvine.com</a><!-- w -->. It was a local news station. I should have put the link in my post, but I cut and paste the article in it's entirety in my first post.

Just because some people in an earlier story walked across a flag doesn't mean that this one particular supervisor would do the same. You can't just assume that people are all going to act the same because you want to think they are going to. It stated in the article that the supervisor that complained about the flag had family members actively serving in the military as well. Why would this person be offended by the American Flag if they have family members serving our country?

And think about it. A 3 foot X 5 foot flag in what could have been a cubicle? That's a fairly big flag! The article I read said that patients of the hospital had complained as well. I can see someone like my grandpa walking in, seeing a big flag like that in someone's cubicle, and bitching that it is being treated in a disrespectful way (my grandpa was a career Navy man). So the supervisor tried to talk to her about it, and the woman aSSumed that because the supervisor was NOT WHITE, he/she was UN-American.

Whatever happened, I just think that there was much more to this story than what we are being given by the media, and I get so tired of people just assuming the worst and jumping on this 'Let's Kick Ass' bandwagon. And I was upset when I tuned into the show, because I usually laugh all the way to work, but when the caller said 'we should eradicate the illegal immigrants' it was suddenly not funny.

[zdunklee]

It sounds to me as though the supervisor who complained was probably more upset about the way the flag was being used, or the size of the flag and NOT what it represented.

Disagree. I don't know where you got the information for your side of the story, but I'm much more inclined to believe the guys'. Remember that story about the art students laying flags on the floor and people would just walk on them and no one cared? That type of behavior seems to be much more common than someone making a fuss about how the flag was used. Plus if this supervisor really cared about how the flag was displayed, she would not have placed it on the floor.

If she had an Obama or McCain bumper sticker on her car they can ask her to remove them as well.

While you may be right about asking someone to remove a McCain bumper sticker from their car (though that doesn't seem realistic), if someone had a Puerto Rican flag hanging from their rearview mirror, no one would say shit. That is the point.

They actually couldn't say shit about a Puerto Rican flag hanging in your car because that would be discrimination by national origin which is illegal by federal law, same with sex, age, disability, etc.

[Mad Dog]

It sounds to me as though the supervisor who complained was probably more upset about the way the flag was being used, or the size of the flag and NOT what it represented.

Disagree. I don't know where you got the information for your side of the story, but I'm much more inclined to believe the guys'. Remember that story about the art students laying flags on the floor and people would just walk on them and no one cared? That type of behavior seems to be much more common than someone making a fuss about how the flag was used. Plus if this supervisor really cared about how the flag was displayed, she would not have placed it on the floor.

If she had an Obama or McCain bumper sticker on her car they can ask her to remove them as well.

While you may be right about asking someone to remove a McCain bumper sticker from their car (though that doesn't seem realistic), if someone had a Puerto Rican flag hanging from their rearview mirror, no one would say shit. That is the point.

They actually couldn't say shit about a Puerto Rican flag hanging in your car because that would be discrimination by national origin which is illegal by federal law, same with sex, age, disability, etc.

So let me get this straight, you can not be discriminated against by your company for being Puerto Rican (which by the way is an American Territory) but you can be discriminated against by your company for being Republican. I get it.

[zdunklee]

It sounds to me as though the supervisor who complained was probably more upset about the way the flag was being used, or the size of the flag and NOT what it represented.

Disagree. I don't know where you got the information for your side of the story, but I'm much more inclined to believe the guys'. Remember that story about the art students laying flags on the floor and people would just walk on them and no one cared? That type of behavior seems to be much more common than someone making a fuss about how the flag was used. Plus if this supervisor really cared about how the flag was displayed, she would not have placed it on the floor.

If she had an Obama or McCain bumper sticker on her car they can ask her to remove them as well.

While you may be right about asking someone to remove a McCain bumper sticker from their car (though that doesn't seem realistic), if someone had a Puerto Rican flag hanging from their rearview mirror, no one would say shit. That is the point.

They actually couldn't say shit about a Puerto Rican flag hanging in your car because that would be discrimination by national origin which is illegal by federal law, same with sex, age, disability, etc.

So let me get this straight, you can not be discriminated against by your company for being Puerto Rican (which by the way is an American Territory) but you can be discriminated against by your company for being Republican. I get it.

No, they would have to not allow ANY political bumper stickers. They can't legally single out any one group of people but it would have to be a company wide policy. It is discrimination if they single you out but not the guy that sits in the cubicle next to you and they wouldn't want that court case to happen.

[stopsign]

I'm getting an inkling that you're making this up as you go along.

Show me the laws please, and I'll believe you.

[zdunklee]

I'm getting an inkling that you're making this up as you go along.

Show me the laws please, and I'll believe you.

Are you joking or just stupid? You cannot single out an employee for anything other than job performance. If a policy such as a political bumper sticker applies to one employee it must apply to any employee because otherwise it is discrimination against said employee. It is the same as any other workplace rule, none of them are allowed to single out employees.

Also, apparently I was wrong about being able to tell you no political bumper stickers, looks like they would have to ban all bumper stickers, seeing as I found this: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ehow.com/how_2140040_avoid-workplace-discrimination.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.ehow.com/how_2140040_avoid-w ... ation.html</a><!-- m -->

It is illegal to discriminate due to: race, ethnicity, religion, national origin, age, gender, disability, color, political affiliation or veteran or familial status. In some areas, it is also illegal to discriminate based on sexual orientation, though it is not a federal violation.

[MissyT]

I'm getting an inkling that you're making this up as you go along.

Show me the laws please, and I'll believe you.

Are you joking or just stupid? You cannot single out an employee for anything other than job performance. If a policy such as a political bumper sticker applies to one employee it must apply to any employee because otherwise it is discrimination against said employee. It is the same as any other workplace rule, none of them are allowed to single out employees.

Also, apparently I was wrong about being able to tell you no political bumper stickers, looks like they would have to ban all bumper stickers, seeing as I found this: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ehow.com/how_2140040_avoid-workplace-discrimination.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.ehow.com/how_2140040_avoid-w ... ation.html</a><!-- m -->

It is illegal to discriminate due to: race, ethnicity, religion, national origin, age, gender, disability, color, political affiliation or veteran or familial status. In some areas, it is also illegal to discriminate based on sexual orientation, though it is not a federal violation.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[stopsign]

I'm getting an inkling that you're making this up as you go along.

Show me the laws please, and I'll believe you.

Are you joking or just stupid? You cannot single out an employee for anything other than job performance. If a policy such as a political bumper sticker applies to one employee it must apply to any employee because otherwise it is discrimination against said employee. It is the same as any other workplace rule, none of them are allowed to single out employees.

Also, apparently I was wrong about being able to tell you no political bumper stickers, looks like they would have to ban all bumper stickers, seeing as I found this: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ehow.com/how_2140040_avoid-workplace-discrimination.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.ehow.com/how_2140040_avoid-w ... ation.html</a><!-- m -->

It is illegal to discriminate due to: race, ethnicity, religion, national origin, age, gender, disability, color, political affiliation or veteran or familial status. In some areas, it is also illegal to discriminate based on sexual orientation, though it is not a federal violation.

Let's slow down on the attacks here buddy.

I wanted you to prove that employers could ban political bumper stickers, the bold part. Of course they can't single out an employee. As it turns out, when you did go ahead and research what you were saying you found out you were wrong, so it looks like I pushed you in the right direction. Now you are suggesting that they could ban all bumper stickers, but I would like to submit that they could not.

[zdunklee]

I'm getting an inkling that you're making this up as you go along.

Show me the laws please, and I'll believe you.

Are you joking or just stupid? You cannot single out an employee for anything other than job performance. If a policy such as a political bumper sticker applies to one employee it must apply to any employee because otherwise it is discrimination against said employee. It is the same as any other workplace rule, none of them are allowed to single out employees.

Also, apparently I was wrong about being able to tell you no political bumper stickers, looks like they would have to ban all bumper stickers, seeing as I found this: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ehow.com/how_2140040_avoid-workplace-discrimination.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.ehow.com/how_2140040_avoid-w ... ation.html</a><!-- m -->

It is illegal to discriminate due to: race, ethnicity, religion, national origin, age, gender, disability, color, political affiliation or veteran or familial status. In some areas, it is also illegal to discriminate based on sexual orientation, though it is not a federal violation.

Let's slow down on the attacks here buddy.

I wanted you to prove that employers could ban political bumper stickers, the bold part. Of course they can't single out an employee. As it turns out, when you did go ahead and research what you were saying you found out you were wrong, so it looks like I pushed you in the right direction. Now you are suggesting that they could ban all bumper stickers, but I would like to submit that they could not.

No they can ban whatever they want on their property, much like you can on your own property. If you want a bumper sticker and the company has a policy against them then they can just tell you that you are not allowed to park on their property. They own the land and parking lot and therefore they make the rules. I could see some companies banning them based upon the business they are in. But again if they own it they make the rules, much like if I own it I make the rules.

Also, they could actually ban all political bumper stickers if they wanted, they just cannot single out one party over another. It is not discrimination if you don't single out people but instead ban all of they type of item.

I work for a company that bans all cell phones while on company property, including having a cell phone in your vehicle.

[MissyT]

I work for a company that bans all cell phones while on company property, including having a cell phone in your vehicle.

Ahh! What company do you work for so I can stay away from it.

[Mad Dog]

I work for a company that bans all cell phones while on company property, including having a cell phone in your vehicle.

Ahh! What company do you work for so I can stay away from it.

[zdunklee]

I work for a company that bans all cell phones while on company property, including having a cell phone in your vehicle.

Ahh! What company do you work for so I can stay away from it.

It is actually a cleaning company, but we do work for a lot of other companies that work with sensitive materials such as designs on new vehicles (most of which ban cell phones themselves), doctors offices, etc. It is more a precaution against camera phones than anything else.

[stopsign]

I work for a company that bans all cell phones while on company property, including having a cell phone in your vehicle.

Ahh! What company do you work for so I can stay away from it.

It is actually a cleaning company, but we do work for a lot of other companies that work with sensitive materials such as designs on new vehicles (most of which ban cell phones themselves), doctors offices, etc. It is more a precaution against camera phones than anything else.

A company banning something with a legitimate reason is different than just banning them all willy nilly. If they ban bumper stickers on a company vehicle I can see that. I think you're off your rocking chair on this one.

[zdunklee]

I work for a company that bans all cell phones while on company property, including having a cell phone in your vehicle.

Ahh! What company do you work for so I can stay away from it.

It is actually a cleaning company, but we do work for a lot of other companies that work with sensitive materials such as designs on new vehicles (most of which ban cell phones themselves), doctors offices, etc. It is more a precaution against camera phones than anything else.

A company banning something with a legitimate reason is different than just banning them all willy nilly. If they ban bumper stickers on a company vehicle I can see that. I think you're off your rocking chair on this one.

You can think that all you want, but they can ban ANYTHING they want on their property, they own it therefore they make the rules (apparently you don't understand ownership very well). I didn't say it would make sense, but that doesn't negate the fact that they are able to do it. Also who said there might not be a reason for banning them? It does not have to be for no reason. I could see companies that deal largely with government banning bumper stickers simply to keep anything political one side or the other off their property, afterall ultimately they want money from both sides of the aisle.

All they have to say is well you can either not have them or don't park on our property because you will be fired. It would be disobeying a rule and perfectly legal grounds for firing if you decided to have a bumper sticker anyway. Same with cell phones, we cant even have them sitting in our cars if on company property, if they can be seen you can/will be fired on the spot, no exceptions.

[MissyT]

I work for a company that bans all cell phones while on company property, including having a cell phone in your vehicle.

Ahh! What company do you work for so I can stay away from it.

It is actually a cleaning company, but we do work for a lot of other companies that work with sensitive materials such as designs on new vehicles (most of which ban cell phones themselves), doctors offices, etc. It is more a precaution against camera phones than anything else.

A company banning something with a legitimate reason is different than just banning them all willy nilly. If they ban bumper stickers on a company vehicle I can see that. I think you're off your rocking chair on this one.

You can think that all you want, but they can ban ANYTHING they want on their property, they own it therefore they make the rules (apparently you don't understand ownership very well). I didn't say it would make sense, but that doesn't negate the fact that they are able to do it. Also who said there might not be a reason for banning them? It does not have to be for no reason. I could see companies that deal largely with government banning bumper stickers simply to keep anything political one side or the other off their property, afterall ultimately they want money from both sides of the aisle.

All they have to say is well you can either not have them or don't park on our property because you will be fired. It would be disobeying a rule and perfectly legal grounds for firing if you decided to have a bumper sticker anyway. Same with cell phones, we cant even have them sitting in our cars if on company property, if they can be seen you can/will be fired on the spot, no exceptions.

I completely understand what your saying, but what if there is an emergency? Do they page you or something?

[zdunklee]

It is actually a cleaning company, but we do work for a lot of other companies that work with sensitive materials such as designs on new vehicles (most of which ban cell phones themselves), doctors offices, etc. It is more a precaution against camera phones than anything else.

A company banning something with a legitimate reason is different than just banning them all willy nilly. If they ban bumper stickers on a company vehicle I can see that. I think you're off your rocking chair on this one.

You can think that all you want, but they can ban ANYTHING they want on their property, they own it therefore they make the rules (apparently you don't understand ownership very well). I didn't say it would make sense, but that doesn't negate the fact that they are able to do it. Also who said there might not be a reason for banning them? It does not have to be for no reason. I could see companies that deal largely with government banning bumper stickers simply to keep anything political one side or the other off their property, afterall ultimately they want money from both sides of the aisle.

All they have to say is well you can either not have them or don't park on our property because you will be fired. It would be disobeying a rule and perfectly legal grounds for firing if you decided to have a bumper sticker anyway. Same with cell phones, we cant even have them sitting in our cars if on company property, if they can be seen you can/will be fired on the spot, no exceptions.

I completely understand what your saying, but what if there is an emergency? Do they page you or something?

Generally I am cut off from the outside world while at work and they simply add stuff to our schedule once we are back at the office. As for a major emergency my boss would make a trip out to our location if there was something that was serious that we needed to head home for.

[patfromportland]

uhh, off topic anyone?

[zdunklee]

uhh, off topic anyone?

Off topic? Isn't this about workplaces and what they can restrict? Kinda one and the same?

[patfromportland]

Its kinda the same, but the thread was more about being offended by the flag or not, not about whether your allowed to have your cell phone at work.


I will now take my thread police badge off and throw it in the trash.

[zdunklee]

Actually it was about business bending over backwards for people that are offended by things, not necessairly the flag, but that is the one that started it.

[patfromportland]

I will now take my thread police badge out of the trash, put it back on, and tell you that the thread title is Offended By The American Flag?