Obama Mercy Hospital

[Mad Dog]

You knew this was gonna happen. Hope everyone likes long waits for there health care. Soon getting your appendix out will be even more fun than getting your licence plates renewed.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Politics/story?id=7766321&page=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Politics/s ... 321&page=1</a><!-- m -->

[Mad Dog]

Nobody here seems too concerned about Obama taking over the Health Care Industry. Well here comes the push.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20090615/US.Obama.Doctors/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-ge ... a.Doctors/</a><!-- m -->

[Philly Mike]

The reason people probably didn't post any replies here is because it isn't going to be that extremist version of healthcare that you are so afraid of.

The scenario where most people drop their health insurance is predicted to really not even get close to happening at all in any way shape or form. The reform that will most likely pass will be one where there is a middle line for people who can use the government based health insurance and people who prefer to use private insurance. Truth is a lot of businesses now are having a horrible time putting up with health insurance costs for their employees. I have tried to start my own business and looked into the costs of health insurance on the company side, they really put pressure on the company itself in those costs. Not to mention the outrageous costs for the employees too. Health insurance companies are out of control and something needs to be done about them.

[Mad Dog]

Trust me Philly, this is another governmental take over, pure and simple. Except that its not so simple. The United States of America will go broke in Taxes, and we are gonna wind up with a One Payer, European style, load of crap.

This is a socialistic idea that the left has been pushing for years and years and now is their BIG chance to SAVE us, because they feel they are better at determining your and my health choices than me or you. Did you read the article I highlighted, They are ready to acknowledge that what they have in store is going to cost at least 1 TRILLION DOLLARS. I'd be willing to wager that its gonna cost at least twice that much. How are we as a society going to pay for all this?

We are already spending how many Trillions in stimulus that hasn't even began to work? Government micro management into our lives SUCKS, and this is a form of soft tyranny. What happens if the next person we elect decides to to install his or her form of Hard Tyranny, Obama has just paved the way.

[Wiener Poopie]

Yeah it sucks that everyone will have healthcare…

[Mad Dog]

Nobody is ever turned away from the hospital.

[Wiener Poopie]

And paying $750 for a CAT scan was cool too, recommended by the doctors but not approved by insurance.

Insurance companies rock!

[Philly Mike]

wow man... paranoid much???

yeah because the system of checks and balances is there to allow the president to make any decision he likes.

the US will not go bankrupt. if that was possible it would have been done during george W's years, the clinton years, the regan years, shit especailly the nixon years. There is a reason we have things set up the way they are. you are getting fed some really harsh info.

No one would approve something that would cause too many problems.. shit a good portion of obamas people are economists. You are really looking at this in the harshest of harsh manner. This is not socialism or whatever you believed from the shit talk during the election. First you complain that nothing is getting done and now you are complaining that he is doing things.. make up your mind.

Yeah it sucks that everyone will have healthcare…

yeah isn't it horrible. while people arent turned away at hosipitals everyone knows how great it is for people to walk around with a colostamy bag because the surgery to get it taken out isn't considered needed. or the fact of how much money hospitals lose because of the fact that preventive health care can not be afforded by many and the ER visits that people don't pay the bills for cost the hospitals millions each year, not to mention the loss to taxpayers. but hey, let's all just allow the system to be this broken instead of encouraging money saving preventive care...

[Philly Mike]

I am still unemployed, my wife has insurance and we still pay out the ass for her doctor visits along with the outrageous amount she pays for her insurance on top of that. she has diabetes and we have to do the whole endocornologists visits and the family doctor checkups for tests and things. with 30 per doctor visit and 45 dollar endo visits, it is a huge loss, not to mention the price of 2 different types of insulin which arent covered, and syringes, on top of that the price of strips for testing, and then there is the 1300 that wasn't paid by insurance for her stay in the hospital recently for a staph infection she had recently. if that isn't fucked up for insurance coverage i dont know what is. on top of it I have no insurance and can not afford preventative care, I may end up with diabetes, the last time i saw an eye doctor she wanted me to come back but i lost coverage. she wanted me back because she thinks i may have glaucoma and i can not afford to get that taken care of if it is, therefore i may go blind in one eye because i cant afford the preventative care. but the system isn't broken at all.

[zdunklee]

Nobody is ever turned away from the hospital.

I don't know what hospital you are talking about, but my sister works at one as a nurse and they DO turn people away at times. You have to have a pretty good reason to be turned away, but it does happen a lot more often than you think.

Insurance is a scam all the way around, the hoops they make people jump through has caused countless deaths and hardships that could have been handeled in the first place if insurance companies wouldn't drag their feet and find ways to deny claims (they have people whose job it is to specifically find reasons to deny them).

Not to mention insurance is one of the reasons that people without insurance have to pay such high prices, because insurance companies like Blue Cross only pay certain amounts for certain things and most of the time the cost is not covered, thus the uninsured people subsidize the insured people even tho most don't realize that is what happens.

Mike I am in much the same situation as you, I have a bad knee that I need to have checked out, but I only have major medical because it is all I can afford, thus I have to wait until something happens to my knee that causes me to go to the emergency room, otherwise it will be considered a pre-existing condition when I do get better insurance. I could probably prevent further problems by having it looked at now, but that isn't an option unless I want to have to pay for everything from now on out of my own pocket, which I cannot afford.

[Mad Dog]

Why not get a job with insurance? Thats what I did. The day after I got the ax, I started a crusade to get a new one, and I didn't stop till I got one.

[Philly Mike]

Why not get a job with insurance? Thats what I did. The day after I got the ax, I started a crusade to get a new one, and I didn't stop till I got one.

yeah, that's easier said than done. There was one day in which i have applied to about 30 companies including Mcdonalds, home depot, Taco Bell, Wal-Mart, chuck e cheese's, Wendys, Friendlies, and a bunch of other places that offer barely above minimum wage, not to mention office work, and even a couple of jobs unloading trucks. Do you know how many call backs i got was... 1 chuck e cheese's and I went for the interview and didn't get the job. so you can tell me all you want to get a job, and if it were that easy i would, but it is hard when you work for an office job for about 3 years just to get laid off, and then have nothing. If my wife were to put me on her insurance we wouldn't have enough to get by because it is an extra 250, or 300 a month just to add me. So it isn't that easy.

[Mad Dog]

I know it's not easy and it took me a three months of temp jobs , crap jobs, jobs that I thought were great and then a week later getting booted, and unemployment checks untill I found mine. Just don't give up. I know your having a hard time, It sucks.

I am by myself and it is up to me to take care of me for as long as that is possible. I have had moooore than my share of bad luck, Diabetes, busted elbow, torn up shoulder, child support, apartment living, but I never give up. Don't you give up either. What ever you do for yourself is 10x better than what the government can do for you.

[Philly Mike]

I know it's not easy and it took me a three months of temp jobs , crap jobs, jobs that I thought were great and then a week later getting booted, and unemployment checks untill I found mine. Just don't give up. I know your having a hard time, It sucks.

I am by myself and it is up to me to take care of me for as long as that is possible. I have had moooore than my share of bad luck, Diabetes, busted elbow, torn up shoulder, child support, apartment living, but I never give up. Don't you give up either. What ever you do for yourself is 10x better than what the government can do for you.

Point being, job or no job the whole system is broken. the regular doctor visits at 30 bucks, a lot of medication not being covered by insurance, a lot of procedures especially good preventative ones not being covered, and so on cause our system to be screwed up so much. We need cheaper preventive care, and better coverages for surgeries and meds this way people who are pinched for money don't have to wait until it has gone too far to be helped and that causes people to miss work and so on which hurts everything all around for the family and even the economy considering how many people miss because of things like that in a given year.
Yeah I don't think that everything in the world needs to be regulated, but health care is something that needs it, there are other countries that have universal health care and it works out a hell of a lot better than people afraid to go because of the cost.

[Mad Dog]

Point being, who ever pays, has the say.

[Philly Mike]

Point being, who ever pays, has the say.

eh well either way this is just going to start circling now so there seems to be no more back and forth. this is just agree to disagree unless someone actually has any kind of different info but i dont see how anything else can come up and either way no one is going to change their mind.
so lets just be friends.... :yipee: :tonguebath:

[professorpinasheep]

The issue I take with government run healthcare is who gets to make the decisions. You want to put an entity that can't pay its bills, mortgages the future, specializes in short-term fixes, and is known for dragging its feet at nearly every opportunity, in charge of deciding what to do when it comes to your health? Are treatment options going to be about what what course you want and/or your doctor suggest, or will it rely simply on survival and success ratios? I'd like to hear more about it.

I'm not going to pretend I know exactly how it works, but I've heard as many horror stories about government-run healthcare as I've heard about our current system. Year-or-years-long waits for procedures and extreme taxation are a few things I'm concerned about. And I loathe to defend insurance companies, but isn't it possible with an installation of a government program comes the elimination of the private sector? Cuz we really need a couple hundred thousand more people lookin for work... Of course, that's an extreme scenario, but it is completely unlikely?

[zdunklee]

The issue I take with government run healthcare is who gets to make the decisions. You want to put an entity that can't pay its bills, mortgages the future, specializes in short-term fixes, and is known for dragging its feet at nearly every opportunity, in charge of deciding what to do when it comes to your health? Are treatment options going to be about what what course you want and/or your doctor suggest, or will it rely simply on survival and success ratios? I'd like to hear more about it.

I'm not going to pretend I know exactly how it works, but I've heard as many horror stories about government-run healthcare as I've heard about our current system. Year-or-years-long waits for procedures and extreme taxation are a few things I'm concerned about. And I loathe to defend insurance companies, but isn't it possible with an installation of a government program comes the elimination of the private sector? Cuz we really need a couple hundred thousand more people lookin for work... Of course, that's an extreme scenario, but it is completely unlikely?

Well if the private sector did disappear wouldn't those jobs have to go somewhere if the same amount of people are getting insurance? I think if anything it would make the private sector more competitive and hopefully turn around the current trend of insurance going up and covering less. I am not for 100% government healthcare at all, but if they were a competitor and able to set some lower rates then it would be a good thing IMHO.


BTW: Did you know you only have to pay $10 a month towards a medical bill and they cannot turn you over to collections or put it on your credit report. Just an FYI if anyone needs to save some money for something else important and medical bills are hurting you.

[Philly Mike]

The issue I take with government run healthcare is who gets to make the decisions. You want to put an entity that can't pay its bills, mortgages the future, specializes in short-term fixes, and is known for dragging its feet at nearly every opportunity, in charge of deciding what to do when it comes to your health? Are treatment options going to be about what what course you want and/or your doctor suggest, or will it rely simply on survival and success ratios? I'd like to hear more about it.

I'm not going to pretend I know exactly how it works, but I've heard as many horror stories about government-run healthcare as I've heard about our current system. Year-or-years-long waits for procedures and extreme taxation are a few things I'm concerned about. And I loathe to defend insurance companies, but isn't it possible with an installation of a government program comes the elimination of the private sector? Cuz we really need a couple hundred thousand more people lookin for work... Of course, that's an extreme scenario, but it is completely unlikely?

Well if the private sector did disappear wouldn't those jobs have to go somewhere if the same amount of people are getting insurance? I think if anything it would make the private sector more competitive and hopefully turn around the current trend of insurance going up and covering less. I am not for 100% government healthcare at all, but if they were a competitor and able to set some lower rates then it would be a good thing IMHO.

It would make things more competitive all in all. It would also bring more jobs. With everyone eligable for health insurance there has to be people to work for whatever company or companies are chosen to help drive the government health care and there would have to more than likely be entire departments created within those companies to do so. and like lee says it would probably create lower rates because of the openness created by this which helps us all in the end. It would not eliminate the private insurance agencies at all. If you look at the major universal health care plans out there there is also always a supplemental insurance company or private insurance companies for the people who can afford them if they are purley exclusive like that . but there are also low priced privates and supplemental insurance agencies, but the basics should be covered for people.

[Mad Dog]

Would everyone be eligable for Health Insurance or entitled to it. That there is a big difference. And as for Government Insurance displacing Private Insurance, Which of these two powerhouses has deeper pockets? Ding Ding. You guessed it. Da Gobmint. In the world we live in today, The Big Fish eat the little fish and the government will find a way to keep insurance companys under its heel. Witness Obama bashing down AIG. Even if these companys stay afloat, they wind up doing what ever the biding Da Gobmint wants, Whether or not its good for anybody.

[zdunklee]

Would everyone be eligable for Health Insurance or entitled to it. That there is a big difference. And as for Government Insurance displacing Private Insurance, Which of these two powerhouses has deeper pockets? Ding Ding. You guessed it. Da Gobmint. In the world we live in today, The Big Fish eat the little fish and the government will find a way to keep insurance companys under its heel. Witness Obama bashing down AIG. Even if these companys stay afloat, they wind up doing what ever the biding Da Gobmint wants, Whether or not its good for anybody.

AIG is a terrible example...the government is ran better than AIG and that is a sad reality. Even by the sounds of your articles linked it looks like everyone would be eligable for health insurance, not entitled too it. Although I believe that all children under 16 should be entitled to health insurance because they have no way to pay for it and if they have deadbeat parents it is not their fault, so something should be done to help out the kids at the very least.

[Mad Dog]

AIG is a great example of a business that should have been allowed to fail. So is GM and so is Chrysler. The world will not end with out these companies. The people in them will survive and get new jobs in different places. New companys will spring up in their place. Having said that however, these company ar being held up as straw dogs to do be owned by the tax payer and to do the Governments bidding. And now here comes healthcare. Obama will deamonize these Health Care companys of all types in a flat out power grab and the tax payer will be on the hook.

[Philly Mike]

AIG is a great example of a business that should have been allowed to fail. So is GM and so is Chrysler. The world will not end with out these companies. The people in them will survive and get new jobs in different places. New companys will spring up in their place. Having said that however, these company ar being held up as straw dogs to do be owned by the tax payer and to do the Governments bidding. And now here comes healthcare. Obama will deamonize these Health Care companys of all types in a flat out power grab and the tax payer will be on the hook.

first off you don't seem to understand economics. If AIG were to fail the markets of the US and the rest of the world would crash, it would be worse than the great depression, not to mention the people that work there would lose their jobs. There are retirement funds and such that have holdings within AIG, GM and all of the other big global companies. If any big bank or company would have to liquidate it would ruin a lot of things in all markets. it would make things horrible.

then there is another thing you have to consider... Lee and myself actually agree on something... that has to say something about this argument alone

[zdunklee]

Haha, it happens sometimes mike.

Mad Dog your points might all be valid, but only time will tell as they all seem to be on the worst fear mongering side possible. Every point you bring up is valid, but also highly unlikely because government healthcare will never be as customizable as private healthcare. On top of that even the European countries and Canada have private healthcare companies as well as the government stuff, both can co-exist there, why not here as well?


As for GM and Chrysler, congress has said they want to get their hands out of them as soon as possible, and democrats have stated that as well. I believe that it will happen very fast once they are back on their feet because with only a slight democratic support they have enough votes to override any veto Obama could threaten.

[Philly Mike]

Haha, it happens sometimes mike.

Mad Dog your points might all be valid, but only time will tell as they all seem to be on the worst fear mongering side possible. Every point you bring up is valid, but also highly unlikely because government healthcare will never be as customizable as private healthcare. On top of that even the European countries and Canada have private healthcare companies as well as the government stuff, both can co-exist there, why not here as well?


As for GM and Chrysler, congress has said they want to get their hands out of them as soon as possible, and democrats have stated that as well. I believe that it will happen very fast once they are back on their feet because with only a slight democratic support they have enough votes to override any veto Obama could threaten.

Well one of the biggest things is the fact that any president that wishes for the government to run businesses is just asking for trouble and a bunch of unpopularity, which a president really doesn't want if he wishes to get reelected. Obama is not that stupid as many mistakes as he could make he wouldn't be that stupid.

[sunshyne]

As far as "free" healthcare goes, I wouldn't be so against it if it was actually going to work. People are going to abuse it, people that really need it wouldn't get it fast enough. I was watching a thing on tv about a week ago where they did interviews with people in Canada and UK. there was a woman in Canada that has had a broken wrist for two weeks but couldn't get in to see the doctor because the wait is that long. Sure, if the healthcare went to actual US citizens, again, it might not be so bad, but with 20 million illegal immigrants and more just waiting to come here, I don't think that americans and people that have actually become citizens legally should have to pay for their healthcare.
And as far as cost goes, that is a major concern too. They talk about only taxing the rich to pay for this. The major thing that a lot of people I listen to and read articles by talk about the unintended consequences of Government intervention. Once the rich are taxed to death and either leave the country, or are too poor to tax anymore, then who pays for it? Then cuts are made, the government tells you what to eat, what to drink, all for your own sake, to keep you healthy of course, cause if you're healthy then you don't need healthcare. :mrgreen: So then fat people start bootlegging cookies and smokers sell cigarettes on the street like drugs :crazy:
As far as our government and checks and balances, you are in denial if you think the government actually works like a democracy anymore. Oh sure we vote, we vote for the lesser of two evils. Two parties that hardly are seperatable at times. And if you think for one second that a politician in DC ACUALLY cares what the people think, you are mistaken, they will only pacify "the people" with a couple of things, just enough to keep them reelected.
The bailouts are a perfect example, they were voted against by the majority of the population, but they passed through congress and senate like they were on exlax. The politicians have a lot of stakes in the companies they are "saving" they just want to get their part out of it before they actually fail. The bailouts and spending, and takeovers, they are just bandaids over severed arteries.
Ha!, bandaid for a severed artery, that sounds like government healthcare to me.

[Mad Dog]

You make a good point Sunshyne. Setting aside all arguements I have against free Healthcare for every citizen, We wouldn't have to pay for just our own citizen, we would have to pay for any immigrant, legal or otherwise, because it wouldn't be "fair" to exclude them. and the cycle of draining the wealth of the United States will continue. Cause it's fair. Eventually, everyone will have approximately the same income, and no motivation to get better, because there isn't any place to rise above.

[zdunklee]

You make a good point Sunshyne. Setting aside all arguements I have against free Healthcare for every citizen, We wouldn't have to pay for just our own citizen, we would have to pay for any immigrant, legal or otherwise, because it wouldn't be "fair" to exclude them. and the cycle of draining the wealth of the United States will continue. Cause it's fair. Eventually, everyone will have approximately the same income, and no motivation to get better, because there isn't any place to rise above.

Mad Dog, in none of the articles you posted does it ever say this plan would be free for everyone. I also do not believe it should be free either, but I do believe that something needs to be done somewhere along the line because health insurance companies are the reason for the ever increasing cost of healthcare, with their practice of only paying a partial portion of the total bill and leaving hostpitals on the hook to raise the costs even further to try and make up their losses from those who don't have insurance.

[Mad Dog]

Z, most people with out insurance have no way to afford the health care they receive anyway. Many people declare bankrupsy and the hospital is forced to eat that cost anyway and pass the cost along to the rest of us who pay with there insurance and out of pocket. Personally I think that insurance companys have been instrumental in driving up the cost of Healthcare because they have deep pockets and Hospitals can get away with sending giant sized bills, with out patients doing nothing but grumbling and bitching about it.

[professorpinasheep]

The issue I take with government run healthcare is who gets to make the decisions. You want to put an entity that can't pay its bills, mortgages the future, specializes in short-term fixes, and is known for dragging its feet at nearly every opportunity, in charge of deciding what to do when it comes to your health? Are treatment options going to be about what what course you want and/or your doctor suggest, or will it rely simply on survival and success ratios? I'd like to hear more about it.

Well, so far people have responded to the other part about whether or not the private sector will be made obsolete by a move like this. I'm still not sure it's going to ADD jobs, but perhaps no drastic cuts will take place. There's still the matter of this paragraph, which no one who supports government healthcare has addressed. Assuming the government is in control of payments and such, is it too much to guess that they then have a major say in what treatment a person is eligible for? I'm not so sure I want that much government intrusion. And how does the government propose to pay the bill? We're 12+ trillion dollars in debt already, and we're still gunna be writing checks? How's that work?

[professorpinasheep]

In another interesting twist: (I know it's from Drudge, but this still seems like crossing a line)

http://www.examiner.com/x-2913-Boston-Re...hite-House

[Philly Mike]

Well you have to consider some factors, 1 as far as a regular paid insurance goes it would probably at best cover 2/3s of the population, there will still be people who cant afford and get free health insurance that is already available. Now this is a huge help. Anyone who thinks this will be a burden on taxpayers has to look at what is going on now. If you look at the fact that many people who are uninsured go to the ER and use other programs that drain a hospital of money but are not preventive treatment the cost to the government to subsidize these hospitals is well over a few hundred billion dollars. Now under a more stable plan a couple hundred billion is slotted to be taken away from this subsidization to help run this. The way it creates jobs is because there will be people needed to work on this new health care. One way that seems the most likely is it will be a little more open and competitive like the auto insurance market where people will be open to chose through something like a broker that will offer a choice of options and one will always be the government run program. This will create a whole new section of jobs because there will be medical exchanges set up for regular people to work through, and these exchanges will need agents to help the people. so there will be plenty of jobs. and since preventive care will be available to most people it will help out hospitals, and even more so it would help out private practice doctors because they will actually have people going to them because they can afford to go to them. This will create jobs in doctors offices. There are many different possibilities but affordable healtcare as an option for people can't really be too bad of a thing.

[professorpinasheep]

I get the jobs thing, I do. There's certainly a chance it will add more. What I'm still trying to wrap my head around is whether or not the government is going to have a say in what treatment options are available on a case by case basis. You'll never be able to justify that to me, if that's the case.

[Philly Mike]

I get the jobs thing, I do. There's certainly a chance it will add more. What I'm still trying to wrap my head around is whether or not the government is going to have a say in what treatment options are available on a case by case basis. You'll never be able to justify that to me, if that's the case.

They will more than likely have standards set throug a specific provider,basically the same one that is currently used by the politicians. The original idea was something of that nature anyway. The plan is just to have a government backed health care plan as an affordable option.

[zdunklee]

I get the jobs thing, I do. There's certainly a chance it will add more. What I'm still trying to wrap my head around is whether or not the government is going to have a say in what treatment options are available on a case by case basis. You'll never be able to justify that to me, if that's the case.

I agree, the treatment options should be left to the patient/doctor because the doctor was trained for a reason. I have seen reports that Obama might try to limit certain treatments based on some study the government is doing currently, but have also seen that the house I believe has already passed a bill making that illegal to use to limit any treatments.

[sunshyne]

I had brain surgery in 2001. JUST for my neurosurgeon, it was $50,000.00 not including the 7 days in ICU and three more in regular hospital room. the tumor I had wasn't life threatening, and it turned out being not cancerous, however if it had grown for much longer it would have destroyed my optic nerve and I would never see again.
I am glad that I was able to have the surgery and my insurance based the decision on the doctor's reccomendation for the surgery.
I honestly don't think that the government would have done the same. as much as they say they "care" about the people, I know the bottom dollar is what they look at. What if I had to wait another couple years for the surgery because they weren't convinced of the immediate need for the surgery. What if it had been cancer, but because i had to go through the red tape the government has in all of its operations, it had gone beyond medical help.
When I first moved to TN, I had a lot of problems getting a job, mainly because I lived in a small town. After I lived there a year, barely making 100.00 a week, financial problems hit (car, medical, etc.) that wiped out my savings. I tried to get gov. assistance for food stamps, just until I got back on my feet. After fighting with them for a month, I finally said screw it and lived off of peanut butter and jelly and mac & cheese for three more months until I got another job.
I can live off of that for awhile, but I don't want to have to go through all that trouble to get medical help.
I just don't have much confidence in government run operations, and until they can prove that this will be any different, I would just rather not have them invloved this much.

[Mad Dog]

So what happens if the Government decides to compete with Blue Cross and Blue Sheild with their own version of a health insurance plan?

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/23/health-care-obama-business-washington-insurance.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/23/health ... rance.html</a><!-- m -->

[zdunklee]

So what happens if the Government decides to compete with Blue Cross and Blue Sheild with their own version of a health insurance plan?

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/23/health-care-obama-business-washington-insurance.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/23/health ... rance.html</a><!-- m -->

Nothing but good, BCBS needs to go die anyway, ask any good doctor what they think of BCBS and it won't be good.

[Philly Mike]

most primary care doctors don't care for insurance companies. the big reason is because these companies in general don't care much for the idea of preventive care so the ones that make money off the insurance companies is the bigger hospitals, and they don't even make that much. Insurance companies are too centered on milking as much as they can from their subscribers they fight everything just to keep from spending any of the money you pay. A government company will have less interest in that.

[sunshyne]

you confuse me