I have some questions for the Christians.

[Mad Dog]

I believe in GOD. I believe jesus died on the cross for my sins. In march 2005 I was in the hospital for 3 days on life support. I was dead. They were going to "unplug me" the next day but I woke up. I cannot tell you that I seen heaven or hell. I cannot tell you that I seen bright pure white lights. I can tell you this; I heard a voice tell me to "wake-up" and I did. That was it. When I opened my eyes there was noone in my room. They walked by and seen me moving around trying to breathe on my own which is hard as hell to do when a machine is doing it for you. It was almost as if I was drowning trying to gasp for air but I didn't need to. They knocked me out and unhooked me and then woke me back up. Doc said there was nothin she could do besides life support. Said I would have health probs the rest of my life. Well; I will b 32 in april and have had nothing major. Sometimes my memory evades me and sometimes I get bad migraines but I am thankfull to GOD that I am still alive.

The human mind, under extreme stress, is very capable of hallucination. It's like your brain screams out and attempts to over ride the circumstances that it finds it self in. Hearing voices in and of itself is not proof of God.

People in our modern society with our modern medicine are brought back from the brink of death relatively frequently. People who are at the brink of death are by definition under extreme amounts of stress and would be ripe for their brain to scream out in protest.

If you made it, it would be natural to credit a higher power because it is something you could not comprehend. Coincidently that is the exact reason why the Bible was written in the first place. Our ancestors were attempting to explain things they could not comprehend. But again, just because you were very sick, heard a voice, and survived, is not, in and of it self is proof of God.

[-Jiggy-]

Is there sarcasm there jiggy. Hard to detect in posted mssgs. Just a question.

I was being funny (or trying to) in my first sentence with the wording of what I said mixed with your name but I really did mean thanks for sharing your story. It's uplifting and encouraging.

*wow, not so funny when it is explained.

[Mad Dog]

In my early thirty's, I got myself in to serious trouble in my marriage, with some very bad behavior that I will not elaborate on. My wife swept up my kids and rushed over to her relatives for the weekend where she left me to stew in my own thoughts and actions. I was very wrong and I was very much in trouble and my marriage was very much in the balance. I had no clue what to do to even begin to fix the problem I had caused. So I called my Dad.

My dad, at that time, was an elder in his church and very religious. He gave me this advice: "Go find that bible that is collecting dust and open it up. Find a pen and a piece of paper and look up the word 'forgiveness'. Hand write every verse down on your paper. Then give that paper to your wife." Since I was distraught and desperate, that is exactly what I did.

I spent the rest of the weekend hand writing about ten pages front and back, all concerning forgiveness. When my wife finally got home with the kids, she wanted an emergency counseling session and I agreed. I apologized for my actions and handed her the pages that I had written then went to our bed room, shut the door and waited.

After about ten minutes, the door to the bedroom flew open and in a low even voice she said " God may forgive you, but I will not!!" She then tossed my papers at me, walked out and closed the door. The stress in my body was overwhelming and my brain snapped. I left huge bruises on my thighs as I beat myself with my fists and I hyperventilated. As I lay on my bed and wailed I noticed a bright light in my bedroom but in actuality the room was pitch black. In just about that same instance I heard a voice. and that voice said "Peace be still, the Lord is working"
My body went instantly loose and with in a few minutes I fell dead asleep.

This was the beginning of an almost six year spiritual journey of mine. And it ended with me coming to the realization that I could not continue to live a life that really wasn't me. I had attempted to fit the square peg of my life into the round hole of God and it did not work very well. Eventually it did cost me my marriage but I'm OK with it.

[renegade]

I know u were being funny jiggy! I was laughing my ass off when I posted my reply! Just wanted to make you squirm a-bit. Lol.

[renegade]

Public Announcement


Major A-hole would like to apologise to Potthole.

I'm sorry for being such a prick to you. Hope you will accept. I was wrong.

[doktor]

Well this has been an interesting thread...

[renegade]

So let me ask a question to the non-believers. If you believe that there is no GOD; do you believe in darwinism or the big bang or we are nothing but the white part that is on top of chicken shit?

Do you believe that we are the only intellectual beings in the universe?

Do you believe that studying darwinism eventually leads to atheism?

Do you support abortion?

[Mad Dog]

Just because there's no sin doesn't mean there are no morals.

You bring up a very interesting point Krys. You are right about this. Good morals promote a healthy living environment for us human beings and bad morals lead to societal decay. I'm not discounting Biblical morals because they are are the foundation for secular and societal morals. An amoral society would fly apart at the seams quickly. But a person does not necessarily have to know that God exists or lives in their heart to do good and know right from wrong. Plenty of wrong has been perpetrated in the name of God, Satan and atheism

[donkeypunch]

I'll take a stab at it douche nozzle:

1) How old is God? As it was said before, he is eternal. No begining, no end.
2) Where does God live? In heaven, idiot.
3) Why does God allow bad things to happen to good people? This is actually kind of tricky depending on what you believe. Some say that satan controls bad things, while God controls good things. I personally disagree. I believe things happen to you for a reason. I also believe in free will as opposed to pre-destination, meaning that God creates us, but doesn't have guite as big a hand in things as some think. I might be totally wrong on that, but it's just what I think.
4) Why did God let his only son get beaten, tortured and murdered? Before Jesus died for our sins animals were sacrificed to cover for sin. Jesus was a permanent sacrifice.
5) Why won't God ever let you see or talk to him? The same reason your mother won't let you see her vagina. You don't have to see it, you know it's there.
6) Why is it you can pray to God, but if God ever says something to you, you're considered crazy? God speaks to me in many ways all of the time and I'm not considered crazy.
7) What do you think of the Oakland Raiders? Really?
8) Do you believe that Morgan Freeman is God? He was for a short while, but passed the torch to Cuba Gooding Jr. who totally dropped the ball.

[dingdongyo]

So let me ask a question to the non-believers. If you believe that there is no GOD; do you believe in darwinism or the big bang or we are nothing but the white part that is on top of chicken shit?

Do you believe that we are the only intellectual beings in the universe?

Do you believe that studying darwinism eventually leads to atheism?

Do you support abortion?

in order:

i don't understand the chicken shit thing. but i can follow darwinism and the big bang theory.

i don't know.

i don't think so.

i don't support or condemn it.

[renegade]

I was being sarcastic but serious; I guess, at the same time. I wanted to know what you believed in no matter how crazy it may seem to me. Some people cannot grasp the ideal of space being infinte. It is hard sometimes for me to picture something being infinite. I mean,we are all surrounded by things that either break, die, or get thrown away or put in a yard sale. We are told by scientist space is infinite. We are shown pictures of space from millions of miles away. Hell....you can buy a star and name it after you dog thru the Star Registery. (Good luck finding the damn thing after you have wasted $100. And no; I didn't buy a star!). Is space infinite because we have reached our limits as too how far we can send our sats so therefore space must be infinite because we can't explore any further or is the edge another mile or two and we don't want to accept that everything has to end? I guess its all in how each individual sees the world.

[renegade]

Donkeypunch. Maddog did an excelent job of explaining the answers to the questions. You on the otherhand. Did not

[renegade]

I have another question for you since you are familiar with Darwinism......
Do you believe that there is room for God in Charles Darwins theory of evolution? (That is if you believed in GOD) In example:did an ameoba just appear oneday and everything living that we know of evolve from that one single-celled organism or did GOD create that ameoba and then evolution take over. I do not believe evolution just wanting your pov.

[dingdongyo]

I have another question for you since you are familiar with Darwinism......
Do you believe that there is room for God in Charles Darwins theory of evolution? (That is if you believed in GOD) In example:did an ameoba just appear oneday and everything living that we know of evolve from that one single-celled organism or did GOD create that ameoba and then evolution take over. I do not believe evolution just wanting your pov.

there's room. i don't believe in a god, but i could be wrong. the only thing i think everyone should believe in is that they could be completely wrong.

what you said above is as far as any conversation about religion has ever gotten here:

I guess its all in how each individual sees the world.

i don't care how long this thread goes. it will not progress any further than that.

[krystal]

So let me ask a question to the non-believers. If you believe that there is no GOD; do you believe in darwinism or the big bang or we are nothing but the white part that is on top of chicken shit?

Do you believe that we are the only intellectual beings in the universe?

Do you believe that studying darwinism eventually leads to atheism?

Do you support abortion?

1) I believe atheism is the lack of belief in anything other than provable facts. Creationism makes absolutely no since. But, again, neither does the big bang theory. I do find it easier to believe that chemistry worked and nucleic acids were formed, becoming the building blocks of life. Everything afterwards was change and adaptation.

2) We may be the only intellectual beings in the universe, and, until it is proved otherwise, I believe we are.

3) I do not believe Darwinism eventually leads to atheism. I believe that even the most devout can believe in evolution.

4) Yes, I support abortion. To an extent. The difference between abortion and murder is the difference between a miscarriage and a stillbirth. Until a child is able to survive outside of the mother's body, it is not another person. But, I believe abortion is not a form of birth control.

I also believe that my beliefs in the above ^ shouldn't affect other people's beliefs, and their beliefs shouldn't affect mine. My opinions may or may not go along with other atheists' ideas. I'm my own person and as long as my beliefs aren't hurting anyone else, leave me be.

[Rock Monster]

I'm going to add another question to this. Do "hard core" christians, that go to church every week, believe that I will not make it to heaven, because I don't go to church?

[renegade]

It says in the bible that where ever 2 or more are gathered in his name.....that is church. You don't need walls and a roof to have church.

[Rock Monster]

It says in the bible that where ever 2 or more are gathered in his name.....that is church. You don't need walls and a roof to have church.

But I never meet with another person in his name, therefore I never go to church.

[krystal]

Try this one: If you live a wonderful life, never hurting anyone, and never straying into immorality, but are an atheist, why can't you go to heaven? If you are the example for perfection for humanity, but don't believe, why should you be punished anyways? When people who do horrible things and get "forgiven" (some find the Lord and mean it and never stray afterwards. I do not count them), they can still be accepted into Heaven, despite being a horrible person. I'd rather go with the perfect person than the hypocrite anyday.

[Rock Monster]

What about buddhists, do they go to heaven? Hindus?

My belief is that it is more of the llife that you live, rather than who you chose to worship. Just because I don't follow the teachings of Jesus, Buddha, or Allah, doesn't mean that I am a bad person, and will not go to heaven.

[krystal]

Exactly. It should be about the person you are in life, not your beliefs that decide your afterlife (if, that is, there IS an afterlife).

[-Jiggy-]

What about buddhists, do they go to heaven? Hindus?

My belief is that it is more of the llife that you live, rather than who you chose to worship. Just because I don't follow the teachings of Jesus, Buddha, or Allah, doesn't mean that I am a bad person, and will not go to heaven.

John 14:6 - Google it.

[krystal]

Every religion says you have to be their religion to go to their afterlife. I'm saying that it shouldn't be your beliefs, but the way you've lived your life that should decide your afterlife. So, that means that Buddhism is the greatest religion. I'd rather search for enlightenment than search for an unknowable God.

[-Jiggy-]

Every religion says you have to be their religion to go to their afterlife. I'm saying that it shouldn't be your beliefs, but the way you've lived your life that should decide your afterlife. So, that means that Buddhism is the greatest religion. I'd rather search for enlightenment than search for an unknowable God.

I wish I didn't have to pay taxes every year but I have to cause it's the law. I'm not saying people have to believe this because I do. I'm only telling you what I believe to be right.

[krystal]

That's very true. I really don't have a problem with religion. I believe most religions are beautiful, in theory. It's people that screw them up for me. Sometimes it is the disillusionment of humanity that causes a disillusionment with God. Then people piss me off by saying things like Original Sin is the reason childbirth is so painful. I wanted to kick the person's ass when I was told that. The little feminist in me is especially anti.

[-Jiggy-]

That's very true. I really don't have a problem with religion. I believe most religions are beautiful, in theory. It's people that screw them up for me. Sometimes it is the disillusionment of humanity that causes a disillusionment with God. Then people piss me off by saying things like Original Sin is the reason childbirth is so painful. I wanted to kick the person's ass when I was told that. The little feminist in me is especially anti.

Right, I understand where you could be put off with that statement but it was what the Bible teaches. People also need to understand that not everyone will choose to believe the same thing. I learned a long time ago that the quickest way to put someone off is to tell them what they are doing is wrong. Some of my best friends in life are people that have no interest in the Bible or God.

[renegade]

I can definitly see youse guys points. I have another question/statement.

Charles Darwin was raised religious. I think his father and grandfather were priests. He had extensive knowledge of the bible and GODS word. I've been thinking on this for awhile now. Could darwin have applied his knowledge of the bible to his "theory of evolution"? In example: the bible says we are all decendants of Adam and Eve; darwin says we are evolved decendants of monkeys. Is it possible that he applied the general idea of the bible to his theory of evolution? All of charles darwins teachings, letters to random ppl asking questions, and personal notes are locked away in cambridge university archives in europe. I would really like to be able to read some of them. I do know that in the many religions of the world there are similar stories with slight variations. Take the book of Job for example. In that book I named earlier in this thread it gives examples of this fact. The stories were remarkably similar but had involvment from a different god. Looking at them side by side made me wonder who wrote the story first; was it the Mayans, Egyptians,Buddahist, Hindus, American Indians, The Illuminati?

[krystal]

Thank you. I just find it fun to argue. Believing in something bigger than yourself is a beautiful thing, even if it isn't something I am really capable of. As I said, it's not really the thought, it's some of the people.

[doktor]

[quoted text omitted]

Troll Trollerson here is the reason I posted the questions in the first, LOL YOU POSTED QUSHUNS SO I GON BE A FAG ABOUT THEM LOL

If you're not going to post serious answers, make crude jokes, and be a general faggot. Don't answer the questions.

[Rock Monster]

As I said, it's not really the thought, it's some of the people.

Exactly. The most hard-core bible thumpers seem to be the worst ones, yet in the bible (Matthew 7: 1-5) it teaches you to not judge others. What's that all about?

I once worked with a bible thumper that had said, "those niggers got what they deserved" when talking about slavery. Sorry if this offends anyone, but it is a direct quote.

[renegade]

Sin is a by-product of being human. It is in our nature to sin but we have the ability to choose not to. It is also in our nature to want to be forgiven (or not). Acceptance of any religion ; when you break it down, is about forgivness and the possibility of some form of heaven. Ill choose the bible.

[Rock Monster]

Sin is a by-product of being human. It is in our nature to sin but we have the ability to choose not to. It is also in our nature to want to be forgiven (or not). Acceptance of any religion ; when you break it down, is about forgivness and the possibility of some form of heaven. Ill choose the bible.

I respect people like you. I respect the "your religion is ok, but I like mine better." I don't respect the "you're wrong for not believing what I believe, and you're going to hell for it."

[krystal]

The little feminist in me says:

The Bible just messes me up, because it says that I'm a second class citizen. Women were only declared human so men wouldn't be guilty of the sin of bestiality. I don't believe I am less than a man. I don't believe that I am not as smart as a man just because I'm not as strong. I don't believe that Adam was any less responsible than Eve for their lost innocence (and, according to some, Eve wouldn't have existed if Adam hadn't pissed Lilith off).

And I would rather believe that I am decended from apes than contemplate all of the inbreeding that started the human race.

[renegade]

Rock monster. There are definitly hypocrites everywhere; myself included (but I'm working on that). There is one thing that I have gained enlightenment on: because I own my own semi and wake up in a different town or state every day I have had the opportunity to interact with many
diverse cultures, religions, and people. Now, some people do not get to travel as I do. Hell, most people do not want to. Point is; they never stray away from their hometown. They are never more than 10 miles from their parents and family. All they know and have come to accept is what they were taught as children (wether it be right or wrong; hypocritical or not). It is how they were told the world is. Take yourself for example: you had a run with religion and decided that it was not for you. You came into your own beliefs. There are some who are ignorant to the fact that there are different times and views on the world but that was the BASE of their education in religion, ect. By ignorant I do not mean stupid, I mean just a lack of knowledge upon a subject.

[renegade]

Rock monster. There are definitly hypocrites everywhere; myself included (but I'm working on that). There is one thing that I have gained enlightenment on: because I own my own semi and wake up in a different town or state every day I have had the opportunity to interact with many
diverse cultures, religions, and people. Now, some people do not get to travel as I do. Hell, most people do not want to. Point is; they never stray away from their hometown. They are never more than 10 miles from their parents and family. All they know and have come to accept is what they were taught as children (wether it be right or wrong; hypocritical or not). It is how they were told the world is. Take yourself for example: you had a run with religion and decided that it was not for you. You came into your own beliefs. There are some who are ignorant to the fact that there are different times and views on the world but that was the BASE of their education in religion, ect. By ignorant I do not mean stupid, I mean just a lack of knowledge upon a subject.

[-Jiggy-]

The little feminist in me says:

The Bible just messes me up, because it says that I'm a second class citizen. Women were only declared human so men wouldn't be guilty of the sin of bestiality. I don't believe I am less than a man. I don't believe that I am not as smart as a man just because I'm not as strong. I don't believe that Adam was any less responsible than Eve for their lost innocence (and, according to some, Eve wouldn't have existed if Adam hadn't pissed Lilith off).

Can you tell me where it says women are second class citizens?

[renegade]

Why did that post 2 times. Can't do that from my blackberry.

[rabbidgirl]

My question is why is the bible such an important thing to take literally. Back in the day the bible was created from many books. Some books went in the bible and some books did not make the cut. It is not like this book was sent down from heaven from god himself . I think it is more wise that since we defiantly do evolve that the bible should evolve too. It was a good base line but never to be taken literally.. when someone takes it literally is when we have these ridiculous discussions. We lose the concept of understanding, respect and love that the bible does teach in many of the stories.
Or maybe we can transcend the limitations of the bible and start thinking in the realms of all religion. Every religion has the same messages. Some to more extreme only by one's own interpretation but in the basis of all religion there are rules to follow to just get along and grow together as humans. Now atheists do not apply to this general rule but most of the time atheists have the common sense of what is right and wrong in general... They just do not believe that there is a divine power to make them do this, but they do know what a good person is vs. a bad person.

Weather you are Christian, or atheist, Islam .. or whatever.. well it is pretty ridiculous when you PUSH your beliefs. you are fighting a battle not worth fighting. This thread is awful. A lot of this shows ignorance in people when they speak but not remember teaching from their religion... Or ignorance in knowing what a bad person does (bad people pick fights) Good people make peace..
SO when posting your next post. consider your motive and what your next post will be will be the proof of your character no matter what religion you are or are not.

[renegade]

1 corinthians chpt 8 (I think). It says that the man shall treat his wife as equal and visa-versa

[krystal]

After the fruit is eaten and God issues His punishment comes the fateful line to Eve that, "You shall desire your husband and he will rule over you." To our ears this sounds very much as though God is condemning Eve to a subservient role.

Exodus 20:17
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

(Why are women listed as a possession? Why isn't it the other way around, or both?)

A married man does not commit adultery when he sleep with an unmarried woman. Wheres a married woman sleeping with an unmarried man commits the crime.

^ This may be because of patriarchal society, and wanting to know who the father of a born child is. I say matriarchal all the way. You always know who the mother is.


Genesis 19:7-8
And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Is it better to rape man than woman? Would you offer up your daughter to save your neighbor. And then his daughter's turn on him (in a very disgustingly bad way, indeed), but he's still better than they are?

Judges 19:23-26
And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly. Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.

And then after he finds her dead, he cuts her to pieces and sends her pieces to each tribe to declare war. Nice.

I Timothy 2:11-14
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Because what she has to say would only ruin your life.

Ephesians 5:22-24
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

I Corinthians 11:8-9 KJV
For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

I Corinthians 11:4-7
Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

I Corinthians 14:34-35
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

I Corinthians 7:8-9
I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
God forbid if you were ugly or had no dowry or inheritence.

The internet is a vast and powerful thing. I'm really not a man-hater, I promise.