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flyersfantn Wrote:ratrad Wrote:What is the job? If you can figure that out, I may think about agreeing with you.
Stabilizing Iraq and developing their army to a point where they can take over day to day operations and we might only have to leave a small counter-terroist force behind. I think that this situation is alot closer than alot of people believe.
What is the operational definition of "stabilizing"? What exactly are "day to day" operations in a country in which you don't know who the enemy is? How exactly are we going to do that? What secret information do you have that can prove your last sentence?
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ratrad Wrote:flyersfantn Wrote:Stabilizing Iraq and developing their army to a point where they can take over day to day operations and we might only have to leave a small counter-terroist force behind. I think that this situation is alot closer than alot of people believe.
What is the operational definition of "stabilizing"? What exactly are "day to day" operations in a country in which you don't know who the enemy is? How exactly are we going to do that? What secret information do you have that can prove your last sentence?
With the way the violence has died down and troop deaths are at the lowest level since the begining of the war, I'd say things are looking up.
Day-to-day operations would mean having the Iraqi Army take over all areas of operation from the US military.
Stabilizing would mean getting to a point where the terroists cant operate as freely as they want, and at the same time getting the Iraqi army built up to the point where they can take over.
Why is this so fuucking hard for you?
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flyersfantn Wrote:ratrad Wrote:What is the operational definition of "stabilizing"? What exactly are "day to day" operations in a country in which you don't know who the enemy is? How exactly are we going to do that? What secret information do you have that can prove your last sentence?
With the way the violence has died down and troop deaths are at the lowest level since the begining of the war, I'd say things are looking up.
Day-to-day operations would mean having the Iraqi Army take over all areas of operation from the US military.
Stabilizing would mean getting to a point where the terroists cant operate as freely as they want, and at the same time getting the Iraqi army built up to the point where they can take over.
Why is this so fuucking hard for you?
Sounds good. I look forward to it.
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wienerpoopie Wrote:kaboobie92 Wrote:Furthuring on Dasbow's point... They hate everything about America. It's the same as the terrorists. They hate democracy, capitalism, and freedom. The reason why they would get along with Obama is because he is a glorified socialist. And if you disagree read on his policies. Wealth re-distribution, universal healthcare, etc.
Most the world hates the U.S. as much as Iraq did, why don
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[quote="Mad Dog"]
[quote="wienerpoopie"]
Most the world hates the U.S. as much as Iraq did, why don
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wienerpoopie Wrote:Mad Dog Wrote:Wow, I'm so glad that you have volunteered to be the hate spokes person for the rest of the world, I'm sure the world thanks you
Put your head back in the sand were its been for the past 40 years
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You believe the entire world is in love with the U.S.?
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wienerpoopie Wrote:You believe the entire world is in love with the U.S.?
no but I believe the democrats (not neccessarily (sp?) you) have their heads in the sand when it comes to wanting to pull out of Iraq immediately, no matter what the cost.
Maybe I shouldnt have said the same can be said about you, per se, just people on your side of the spectrum.
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flyersfantn Wrote:wienerpoopie Wrote:You believe the entire world is in love with the U.S.?
no but I believe the democrats (not neccessarily (sp?) you) have their heads in the sand when it comes to wanting to pull out of Iraq immediately, no matter what the cost.
Maybe I shouldnt have said the same can be said about you, per se, just people on your side of the spectrum.
Read the entire thread!
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wienerpoopie Wrote:I do agree that now were their we need to stay, if we leave now we would be giving terrorists an entire country to frolic in.
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my bad, forgot about that or didnt read it. I retract the statement in question. (shameless attempt to gain some Karma)
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No worries, just wanted to clarify
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The Iraqi people were murdered, tortured, terrorized, and dehumanized for 30 years under Saddam Hussein and you can't rebuild a country over night with those conditions as a back drop.
I can already hear some of you leftists out there thinking "well the U.S. tortured and killed Iraqi's too" blah blah blah Bet you a buck that if that is true ( and too some extent it is) Most if not all of our "victims" are Bathist Hussein sympathizers and insurgents and captured terrorists who nobody should have one ounce of sympathy for.
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Mad Dog Wrote:Most if not all of our "victims" are Bathist Hussein sympathizers and insurgents and captured terrorists who nobody should have one ounce of sympathy for.
Logical Fallacy: Weasel Words
Weasel words informally are ambiguous and cannot be substantiated by facts but are statements utilized to create the illusion of a clear and direct form of communication. They are usually expressed with deliberate imprecision with the intention to mislead the listeners or readers into believing data for which sources are not readily available to them.
Tactics that are used include vague generalizations; the use of the passive voice; non-sequitur statements; extrapolating through the use of grammatical devices such as qualifiers and the subjunctive; using euphemisms (e.g., replacing "firing staff" with "streamlining the workforce").
The vagueness of a statement may disguise the validity or the aim of that statement. Generalizing by means of quantifiers, such as "many" or "better", as well as the passive voice ("it has been decided") conceal the full picture.
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While it may be true that some of those in Guantanamo are "bathist sympathizers," the problem with the prison camp is the lack of due process. There are reports of some in the camps who have no connection to terrorism but were merely turned over to the US by Afghani farmers for the cash bounty. Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8049868/
In this country we try people with evidence, not emotions, not speculation. Condemning guantanamo prisoners into one group is an irrational, emotional response. The conduct of our government in Guantanamo Bay violates the Geneva convention, period. Some of the war supporters love to point out UN resolutions when it comes to Saddam, but when it comes to applying international law to the United States, ooooohhh that threatens our national sovreignty! Not saying I disagree, but the message the Bush Administration is sending to the world with Guantanamo is "We're above the law. Geneva doesn't apply to us."
Source: http://baltimorechronicle.com/geneva_feb02.shtml
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scooterfanatic Wrote:Mad Dog Wrote:Most if not all of our "victims" are Bathist Hussein sympathizers and insurgents and captured terrorists who nobody should have one ounce of sympathy for.
Logical Fallacy: Weasel Words
[/url] Weasel words or words of truth that you are trying to blow smoke over?
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Heres a thought: nobody questioned during WWII when japan attacked us we not only went after japan but also nazi germany. During this decade Al Queda (sp?) attacks us and shortly after we go after Saddam, but its followed by hatred and criticism. Just a thought, not saying if I agree with the war, and this isnt really on topic but I just wanted to put it out there.
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patfromportland Wrote:Heres a thought: nobody questioned during WWII when japan attacked us we not only went after japan but also nazi germany. During this decade Al Queda (sp?) attacks us and shortly after we go after Saddam, but its followed by hatred and criticism. Just a thought, not saying if I agree with the war, and this isnt really on topic but I just wanted to put it out there.
It was easier to fool a nation back then. A whole lot less media. Look at what the Nazi's did to the German people. They didn't know they were losing the war untill the Allies marched on Berlin!
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jus' P Wrote:patfromportland Wrote:Heres a thought: nobody questioned during WWII when japan attacked us we not only went after japan but also nazi germany. During this decade Al Queda (sp?) attacks us and shortly after we go after Saddam, but its followed by hatred and criticism. Just a thought, not saying if I agree with the war, and this isnt really on topic but I just wanted to put it out there.
It was easier to fool a nation back then. A whole lot less media. Look at what the Nazi's did to the German people. They didn't know they were losing the war untill the Allies marched on Berlin!
You technically right saying it was easier to "fool a nation" back then, but in reality I don't think Franklin D. Roosevelt(d) was trying to fool anybody. As soon as Japan bombed Pearl Harbor everybody knew the drill. It may have taken a couple of months to actually declare war on Germany, but since Germany and Japan were Allies, it was only a matter of time before we were at war with Germany, and everyone except the staunchest pacifist knew it. I say that is pretty comparable with Afghanistan and Iraq.
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Mad Dog Wrote:jus' P Wrote:It was easier to fool a nation back then. A whole lot less media. Look at what the Nazi's did to the German people. They didn't know they were losing the war untill the Allies marched on Berlin!
You technically right saying it was easier to "fool a nation" back then, but in reality I don't think Franklin D. Roosevelt(d) was trying to fool anybody. As soon as Japan bombed Pearl Harbor everybody knew the drill. It may have taken a couple of months to actually declare war on Germany, but since Germany and Japan were Allies, it was only a matter of time before we were at war with Germany, and everyone except the staunchest pacifist knew it. I say that is pretty comparable with Afghanistan and Iraq.
That's not what I said. People were less informed about current events then, than they are now. The German people were told what to think and read. The Gov controled all media. It wasn't like that here(USA)
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jus' P Wrote:Mad Dog Wrote:You technically right saying it was easier to "fool a nation" back then, but in reality I don't think Franklin D. Roosevelt(d) was trying to fool anybody. As soon as Japan bombed Pearl Harbor everybody knew the drill. It may have taken a couple of months to actually declare war on Germany, but since Germany and Japan were Allies, it was only a matter of time before we were at war with Germany, and everyone except the staunchest pacifist knew it. I say that is pretty comparable with Afghanistan and Iraq.
That's not what I said. People were less informed about current events then, than they are now.
Some people would say that people are less informed now because of the mass media liberal biase, but thats a whole other topic.
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scooterfanatic Wrote:jaydethespaz Wrote:Yea my uncle just got back. I really think that the war is stupid, but no one has the right to rip on the people that do go over there and either get really F-ed up or die while people here sit on their couch and bitch about it. If anyone rips on someone like that, they can all go to hell!
I exalt you man!
See I knew this would happen. I knew people would just read the title and a few choice sentences and totally miss the point of what I was saying. I knew they'd do that because that's what they wanted to think in the first place.
Saying that the troops aren't fighting for my freedom in this one instance does not mean that I hate the troops or even what they actually are doing in Iraq. It does not mean that I don't think they are even doing good things over in Iraq and it does not mean that I don't applaud them for doing that. I love the troops just as much as anybody else. I just love them for what they actually are doing. Soldiers protect my freedom in general by being ready and willing to fight against actual threats to it, but saying that they are fighting in Iraq for my freedom is like saying they are warding tigers away from my house. I'm not threatened by Tigers in the first place, and Iraq was not threatening my freedom in 2003.
Osama Bin Laden is the one who threatens my freedom, and he is the one that needs to be focused on. He is the mastermind of 9/11, so why is he not a "priority" to Mr. Bush?
I honestly read the whole thing. But the war is a touchy subject for me because my uncle got injured in baghdad or however the hell you spell it.
But enough about that, i was also wondering where the F@$k Osama was as well. Anybody have suggestions on where he at?
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wienerpoopie Wrote:scooterfanatic Wrote:If you look at Bush's track-record, he's not competent to be in charge of anything other than a baseball team.
You sure about that?
I don't think he is! lol Bush is not fit to run ANYTHING AT ALL!
Sorry to all you die hard republicans
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jus' P Wrote:Mad Dog Wrote:You technically right saying it was easier to "fool a nation" back then, but in reality I don't think Franklin D. Roosevelt(d) was trying to fool anybody. As soon as Japan bombed Pearl Harbor everybody knew the drill. It may have taken a couple of months to actually declare war on Germany, but since Germany and Japan were Allies, it was only a matter of time before we were at war with Germany, and everyone except the staunchest pacifist knew it. I say that is pretty comparable with Afghanistan and Iraq.
That's not what I said. People were less informed about current events then, than they are now. The German people were told what to think and read. The Gov controled all media. It wasn't like that here(USA)
Sorry i mis-read you. I've done that a couple of times lately. As far as the German people are concerned, I think that they had a number of issues going on, and naivety was about third or fourth on the top ten list, not to say to say it wasn't important. Not that it wasn't their own fault but their economy was so bad, ALOT of people were busy just trying to survive to really give much attention to what Hitler was doing. Second, anti-semitisum totally ran rampant outside the Jewish community and Hitler just tapped into that vibe and took it way past the next level. Third, once Hitler hit his stride, abject fear in the general population vs god-complex in the ruling minority kept the population in line. The rest is history.
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Mad Dog Wrote:jus' P Wrote:That's not what I said. People were less informed about current events then, than they are now. The German people were told what to think and read. The Gov controled all media. It wasn't like that here(USA)
Sorry i mis-read you. I've done that a couple of times lately. As far as the German people are concerned, I think that they had a number of issues going on, and naivety was about third or fourth on the top ten list, not to say to say it wasn't important. Not that it wasn't their own fault but their economy was so bad, ALOT of people were busy just trying to survive to really give much attention to what Hitler was doing. Second, anti-semitisum totally ran rampant outside the Jewish community and Hitler just tapped into that vibe and took it way past the next level. Third, once Hitler hit his stride, abject fear in the general population vs god-complex in the ruling minority kept the population in line. The rest is history.
It's easy to be misunderstood when typing and not speaking. I also am guilty of mis-reading. It happens.
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