atheist how many here ?

[benpet76]

i am ;D

[zig]

This poll could be better.

[Wiener Poopie]

i am ;D

More of us than i thought

[lovegrenade]

I'm definitely suprised... and pleased.

[ahole]

I dig it...

[ratrad]

Atheist right here. I got yo backs.

[derek]

i am ;D

Question, not trying to make you mad or pick a fight, I am just honestly wondering: you seem proud of the fact, may I ask why? (AGAIN, not trying to pick a fight or anything, just curious)

[lovegrenade]

i am ;D

Question, not trying to make you mad or pick a fight, I am just honestly wondering: you seem proud of the fact, may I ask why? (AGAIN, not trying to pick a fight or anything, just curious)

Mostly because I was able to break free from the indoctrination that comes with being raised religious. It's also nice to know that there are others out there that came to the same rational conclusion that I have. It's very hard to be an atheist in a religious dominated area, and I'm glad to see that the numbers of atheists are increasing.

[Wiener Poopie]

Question, not trying to make you mad or pick a fight, I am just honestly wondering: you seem proud of the fact, may I ask why? (AGAIN, not trying to pick a fight or anything, just curious)

Mostly because I was able to break free from the indoctrination that comes with being raised religious. It's also nice to know that there are others out there that came to the same rational conclusion that I have. It's very hard to be an atheist in a religious dominated area, and I'm glad to see that the numbers of atheists are increasing.

Also, many atheists are looked down upon like some cult group or devil worshipers, but thats another thread. It

[ratrad]

Question, not trying to make you mad or pick a fight, I am just honestly wondering: you seem proud of the fact, may I ask why? (AGAIN, not trying to pick a fight or anything, just curious)

Mostly because I was able to break free from the indoctrination that comes with being raised religious. It's also nice to know that there are others out there that came to the same rational conclusion that I have. It's very hard to be an atheist in a religious dominated area, and I'm glad to see that the numbers of atheists are increasing.

Sheesh. How many times a day can somebody be right?

[providencecrow]

Super hardcore militant atheist here. Also i really enjoy the band Atheist, they are awesome.

[kaboobie]

Just out of curiosity;
what do TRUE athiests believe?
is it a renouncing of the Christian Diety?
or is it a lack of recognition of ANY Diety at all?

[speedbump]

Just out of curiosity;
what do TRUE athiests believe?
is it a renouncing of the Christian Diety?
or is it a lack of recognition of ANY Diety at all?

Any at all.

[providencecrow]

Yeah renouncing the christian diety just makes you a heathen. I'm more of a heathen TO THE MAX

[kaboobie]

Do athiests believe in any absolutes?
here's where i'm coming from:
I'm a Christian... but I'm not a dogmatic 'throw my Bible in your face and condemn you to hell' Christian.
I respect the beliefs (or lack thereof) of other religions or philosophies, in fact, I enjoy seeing other viewpoints... so, if i ask a lot of questions, please know that i'm not argumentative, i'm really just inquisitive about these things.

so.... back to my question: Do athiests believe in absolutes? I know that there are definitely truths that science has given us (such as, the laws of physics)... but as far as moral absolutes... is there a difference between right and wrong? and without a diety to provide some sort of moral judgment, how are absolutes determined?

[benpet76]

any diety at all

[providencecrow]

Do athiests believe in any absolutes?
here's where i'm coming from:
I'm a Christian... but I'm not a dogmatic 'throw my Bible in your face and condemn you to hell' Christian.
I respect the beliefs (or lack thereof) of other religions or philosophies, in fact, I enjoy seeing other viewpoints... so, if i ask a lot of questions, please know that i'm not argumentative, i'm really just inquisitive about these things.

so.... back to my question: Do athiests believe in absolutes? I know that there are definitely truths that science has given us (such as, the laws of physics)... but as far as moral absolutes... is there a difference between right and wrong? and without a diety to provide some sort of moral judgment, how are absolutes determined?

That's yes and no. For example: Im absolutely positive that 99% of the general population has no idea how to drive a car properly.

But no, there really are no true absolutes, even with the laws of physics. Sure you can make grand generalizations like "Equation X works for most of the observational universe" except when you get down to the atomic level, things become quite a bit wonky. So even the laws of physics aren't absolutes: hence string theory, which is used to help explain how these things work on the atomic level.

Morals are subjective, even within the world of religion. There are the general ones most people of any faith, persuasion, walk of life, what have you follow. "Killing people is bad" would be one or "Giving someone who is starving some food is good", but no matter how you slice it its all the in between stuff thats different for everyone anyway. The FCC censorship on radio is a perfect example of what i am talking about. To some (probably a lot at this point), cursing on air is no big deal. However there are people out there who truly and honestly believe its 100% immoral to curse and therefore should be banned from being broadcast. The reason for the immorality they give is very religious based. Sure it's easy to just pass these people off as crazy nutjobs, but its just an example of how even within the world of religion morals are not absolute, and everybody does have a differing opinion of what is right and wrong.

Most people, religious or not, and knowingly or not, just go about their business and dont treat people in ways they would not wanna be treated. The golden rule if you will.

[zig]

Do athiests believe in absolutes? I know that there are definitely truths that science has given us (such as, the laws of physics)... but as far as moral absolutes... is there a difference between right and wrong? and without a diety to provide some sort of moral judgment, how are absolutes determined?

There's no way to answer this question for all atheists. Atheism isn't a religion; It's no more than the lack of belief in any deity, so you can't assume that atheists have any more in common than the lack of that specific belief.

To answer your question from my own personal standpoint, I would say that there aren't any absolutes, even within science. I think we should gauge the confidence we put in any claim or belief according to the availability and quality of evidence and counter-evidence regarding said belief. It would be unreasonable to put absolute, 100% confidence in anything because none of us are omniscient. There's always the possibility of some currently unknown information which would show even something like our understanding of gravity to be completely incorrect, no matter how slim that possibility may be.
When it comes to morality, I believe that all of us, whether religious or not, get morality from a combination of intuition which is based on our evolutionary history and personal experiences within various societies and cultures. Our social morality has changed over the course of history and will continue to do so, and I consider these changes to be in an overall positive direction. I think we should strive for a practical, utilitarian morality in which we try to allow the greatest number of people to be as happy and healthy as possible.

[lovegrenade]

Just out of curiosity;
what do TRUE athiests believe?
is it a renouncing of the Christian Diety?
or is it a lack of recognition of ANY Diety at all?

I don't like the biased wording of either of these questions. I don't "renounce" or refuse to "recognize" any diety. Those questions seem to suggest that there are gods out there, and as an Atheist, I'm choosing not to accept them or turning away from them. I realized that I was an Atheist because when I finally shed all of the "dogma" that was indoctrinated into my head throughout my childhood, I realized that there was absolutely no tangible evidence to support any supreme being. This wasn't an easy thing to accept, as I had spent years arguing against that very conclusion, but it is nice not having to suspend my rational thoughts.

As far as the "morality" question goes, I think it's kind of sad to think that people are only moral because of their religion. I was a moral person while I was religious, and I am a moral Atheist. People who are only moral for a reward, or out of fear of damnation, scare the hell out of me.

[saddlebags]

Come on agnosticism. Or would that just be a fancy word for heathen?

[providencecrow]

Come on agnosticism. Or would that just be a fancy word for heathen?

Not a christian, so welcome to the heathen club

[killerb]

There is no god, anyone that thinks so needs a reality check.

There are absolutes! There absolutely is no god, if you believe in him you are absolutely wrong

Any christian that beleives in the validity of other religions is NOT a true christian. Everything your faith is based on is that you are right and everyone else is wrong, correct? So if you allow the possibility that they might be right then it means you might be wrong and that is blasphemy. So have fun in hell

I am glad to see others that share the same views, we are the the smallest of any minority group but possibly the only ones that haven't been brainwashed.

[jay]

There is no god, anyone that thinks so needs a reality check.

There are absolutes! There absolutely is no god, if you believe in him you are absolutely wrong

Any christian that beleives in the validity of other religions is NOT a true christian. Everything your faith is based on is that you are right and everyone else is wrong, correct? So if you allow the possibility that they might be right then it means you might be wrong and that is blasphemy. So have fun in hell

I am glad to see others that share the same views, we are the the smallest of any minority group but possibly the only ones that haven't been brainwashed.

Good to see your accepting of other people's beliefs.

I personally am a Christian. I went from an extreme atheist to a Christian almost overnight without any real explanation. Something just got in my head and I went from a really outspoken atheist to a Christian.

I think everyone should respect other people's views. There is no reason to attack an atheist and there is no reason to attack a Christian. That's just ignorant. And I'm guilty of it back when I was an atheist in my teenage years because I made fun of Christians all the time. But it was wrong of me then and it's wrong of any one group to criticize another group. Whether you are atheist, Jewish, Christian or whatever, you are entitled to your own beliefs without being ridiculed by anyone else for it.

[zeb]

idk if i am athiest or agnostic.. i think that there is no god, no higher power, and that everything happening to the earth we caused, and i DONT CARE about other religions or church, and i show no respect whats soever towards ppl that try to spread there religion to non-believers..... what am i?

[fistor!@#]

There are absolutes! There absolutely is no god, if you believe in him you are absolutely wrong

Ah.

That settles it then. Someone get the Graham family on the phone. They're gonna be so pissed.

[fistor!@#]

what am i?

Young.

[toddlerfundler]

I believe, the Bible was created to keep the heathens in line. It's fans are just as obsessive as Star Wars fans but instead of the force the bible teaches common sense and decency that the world lacked upon it's inception.

The bible also introduce faith and hell, something that cannot be argued against and a penalty for trying. The bible is awesome, it gave direction of decency to the modern world. I believe that it has been twisted by man to serve a different purpose now. No longer is it solely a user manual for life but instead gives moral and financial power to wolves clothed in unquestionable faith. I don't believe in good or evil, but people that are naive carrying the banner of faith can and have caused some of the largest political unrest in the world. (Crusades, Hitler, JW Bush)

In reality if we were a true Christian based country we wouldn't even have an army. Jesus could have lead the Jews against Pontius Pilate and won, but the main principals of Christianity are to treat your brother as you would want to be treated. A true Christian state would welcome any enemy in with open arms even in the face of impending peril. To force anyone to think like you saves the day, to change their heart saves them as well. If Christianity was still pure I would be a Christian, i would walk weaponless onto the field of battle and show the the opposition the type of love my God has shown me.

In reality Christianity has been warped to mean what the church wants. Put something as powerful as religion in man's hands and give them 2000 years and you think that what's left is still pure? Hope and faith were what formed Christianity, fear and deception are the driving forces now preying on the weak and naive.

[fistor!@#]

I believe, the Bible was created to keep the heathens in line. It's fans are just as obsessive as Star Wars fans but instead of the force the bible teaches common sense and decency that the world lacked upon it's inception. It also introduce faith and hell, something that cannot be argued against and a penalty for trying. The bible is awesome, it gave direction of decency to the modern world. I believe that it has been twisted by man to serve a different purpose now. No longer is it solely a user manual for life but instead gives moral and financial power to wolves clothed in unquestionable faith. I don't believe in good or evil, but people that are naive carrying the banner of faith can and have caused some of the largest political unrest in the world. (Crusades, Hitler, JW Bush) In reality if we were a true Christian based country we wouldn't even have an army. Jesus could have lead the Jews against Pontius Pilate and won, but the main principals of Christianity are to treat your brother as you would want to be treated. In reality Christianity has been warped to mean what the church wants. Put something and powerful as religion in man's hands and give them 2000 years and you think that what's left is still pure? Hope and faith were what formed Christianity, fear and deception and the driving forces now preying on the weak and naive.

I almost stopped reading after you compared Bible fans to Star Wars fans, but I persevered. The rest was a great post. Well thought out. Good work.

[toddlerfundler]

I edited it a bit to make more sense and put a sharper point on what i think Christianity should be.
As for the Star Wars reference i was trying to show that a great story is all the Bible is now. A great story with a fanatical fan base.

[toddlerfundler]

Side note, how many christians do you think have read the bible and know it's origins? One of the reasons I fell from religion was because the people that preached the loudest were the most corrupt (ex. Rev. Al Sharpton) and didn't seem to have a sence of true faith.

[fistor!@#]

Side note, how many christians do you think have read the bible and know it's origins? One of the reasons I fell from religion was because the people that preached the loudest were the most corrupt (ex. Rev. Al Sharpton) and didn't seem to have a sence of true faith.

I think faith in a higher power has to be generated from within before any preaching can take hold.

In other words, the faithless can't be preached into believing. IMO, of course.

[toddlerfundler]

They can be scared into action under the vale of faith though. Look at Iraq, we were stuffed full of fear and then lead in the wrong direction. Bush's strongest supporters are the evangelicals.

[fistor!@#]

They can be scared into action under the vail of faith though.

Possibly, but I don't think fear can really change your heart.

[toddlerfundler]

Man's heart is naturaly corrupt. It's faith that is suposed to lead us in the right direction. So when a false prophet appeals to our baser instincts for revenge and fear it's no longer faith that is guiding us.

[toddlerfundler]

A true Christian leader would never take up arms agianst another man.

[toddlerfundler]

People don't want Christianity, they only want the parts they like and not the ones they don't. Who would walk into a furnace like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego? Who would lay their lives down? People have decided that God cares about sporting events and should never require anything painful from them. Fear has replaced faith.

[zeehawk30]

A true Christian leader would never take up arms agianst another man.

Does that mean you don't consider Old Testament leaders as Christians because they were before Christ so just Jews at that point?

[toddlerfundler]

I mean that people today consider them selfs Christians when there actions speak differently. I doubt Old Testament leaders thought of them selfs as Christians because the word hadn't been created yet.

[zeehawk30]

I mean that people today consider them selfs Christians when there actions speak differently. I doubt Old Testament leaders thought of them selfs as Christians because the word hadn't been created yet.

Right the term Christian was not around till well after Jesus was crucified. I understand that. I also agree that Christians sin as well. All sin and fall short of the glory of God. Because of that sin Christians deserve to pay the price of eternal death condemned in hell.

I'm trying to understand the statement you made earlier...

A true Christian leader would never take up arms agianst another man.

[speedbump]

I mean that people today consider them selfs Christians when there actions speak differently. I doubt Old Testament leaders thought of them selfs as Christians because the word hadn't been created yet.

Right the term Christian was not around till well after Jesus was crucified. I understand that. I also agree that Christians sin as well. All sin and fall short of the glory of God. Because of that sin Christians deserve to pay the price of eternal death condemned in hell.

I'm trying to understand the statement you made earlier...

A true Christian leader would never take up arms agianst another man.

I think he's saying that Jesus talked about "turning the other cheek", he was a total pacifist. If a Christian leader wanted to act like a true follower of Christ, he would act in the same way.