Thank you sir, may I have another?

[sunshyne]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2...QbZ.WrAVwQ

The U.S. should consider drafting a second stimulus package focusing on infrastructure projects because the $787 billion approved in February was “a bit too small,” said Laura Tyson, an outside adviser to President Barack Obama.

$787 billion is TOO SMALL!!!???. Ohhhhhh so thats why its not working?

I sure hope Obama doesn't jump on this idea.

[Mad Dog]

They should have done exactly that with the first "Stimulus Package" Our roads, bridges and sewers really could use it. Getting infrastructure built used to be the governments speciality.
Now most of that money is diverted to Socialist Social Programs that are so bloated and over budget, worse yet, don't work as advertised and damage individual creativity. What A Mess.

[krystal]

Actually, if there's another stimulus package, it would be the third of this recession. Bush passed one last year.

[sunshyne]

so, in the $787 BILLION there is no plan for infrastructure. Oh we'll save a swamp mouse, and some other mundane crap. The Bush thing was TARP bailout, and it was to "save" the housing/banking industry. That worked real well too. Well, I suppose it did work well for all mortgage execs that got their bonuses out of it.... I Just think that spending another round of money we don't have is not going to help matters. Oh and I forgot about the $106 billion Obama borrowed from IMFto continue the war he was going to stop....

[Howie Feltersnatch]

maybe we need a Nation wide bankruptcy, forcing us to restructure and cut the fat. I have a shot gun, wood stove, and countless acres to plant food for myself...

BRING ON ANARCHY!

[Wiener Poopie]

Oh and I forgot about the $106 billion Obama borrowed from IMFto continue the war he was going to stop....

:roll:

This is from Obama’s own website…

A Responsible, Phased Withdrawal
Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe we must be as careful getting out of Iraq as we were careless getting in. Immediately upon taking office, Obama will give his Secretary of Defense and military commanders a new mission in Iraq: ending the war. The removal of our troops will be responsible and phased, directed by military commanders on the ground and done in consultation with the Iraqi government. Military experts believe we can safely redeploy combat brigades from Iraq at a pace of 1 to 2 brigades a month that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 – more than 7 years after the war began.

Under the Obama-Biden plan, a residual force will remain in Iraq and in the region to conduct targeted counter-terrorism missions against al Qaeda in Iraq and to protect American diplomatic and civilian personnel. They will not build permanent bases in Iraq, but will continue efforts to train and support the Iraqi security forces as long as Iraqi leaders move toward political reconciliation and away from sectarianism.

[sunshyne]

Ohhhh so we need to borrow 106 BILLION dollars OVER our yearly military/war budget to do that. I get it now. :clap: Nice to see you believe every word that is spoon fed to you, cause, you know if its in writing thats what they'll do. And notice it says Iraq, what about Afganistan? For my friends in the military that just got back from Iraq and are now headed there, seems like the war is just moving.

[Wiener Poopie]

Ohhhh so we need to borrow 106 BILLION dollars OVER our yearly military/war budget to do that. I get it now. :clap: Nice to see you believe every word that is spoon fed to you, cause, you know if its in writing thats what they'll do. And notice it says Iraq, what about Afganistan? For my friends in the military that just got back from Iraq and are now headed there, seems like the war is just moving.

He has already started pulling from Iraq, and Afghanistan is where the terrorist were at to begin with. Oh, and Obama cut the militaries spending so just like your original post, this one is misleading.

WAAAA! Money is all I care about! WAAAAA!

[sunshyne]

That to me sounds like hes just moving the war then, so he cut the spending then borrowed some from somewhere else. Thats like me when i was a kid telling my mom I cleaned my room but just shoved it all under the bed.
you're ignorant, if you even knew me you would know money is NOT all I care about. It IS among one of my concerns, yes. It happens to be the topic of this post, so yes, it is what I'm talking about. If you are refering to the Health insurance thread, then yes money is a concern there too. Yeah you know me, the greedy person with loads of money.
If you think for one second that the world is not run by money then you are really stupid. I guess in your idealistic world the world is run by love and everyone cares about eachother. We can all hold hands and sing while the government fixes everything for us. They'll make sure they give us what we need, no one will be hungry, or sick, or poor, they'll take care of it.
I honestly have no use for you, I am simply stating my opinion. No need for you get personal with this. I just think as far as some news and things going on the world, it doesn't hurt to show people whats going on beyond Michael Jackson's funeral. Sorry the subject is too touchy for you.

[Wiener Poopie]

*sigh* the worst part about this section of the board is teaching people what they are debating…

you're ignorant

And you’re a bitch…I WIN the name calling game! :clap:

[Wiener Poopie]

Do you even have links to support your claims? And if 100 BILLION tweaks your nipple this link will be a kick to the cunt!

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://costofwar.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://costofwar.com/</a><!-- m -->

[Howie Feltersnatch]

Do you even have links to support your claims? And if 100 BILLION tweaks your nipple this link will be a kick to the fishy smelling taco!

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://costofwar.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://costofwar.com/</a><!-- m -->

$3,000/person to support the hunting of Global criminals for nearly ten years....money well spent I say

[Wiener Poopie]

Do you even have links to support your claims? And if 100 BILLION tweaks your nipple this link will be a kick to the fishy smelling taco!

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://costofwar.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://costofwar.com/</a><!-- m -->

$3,000/person to support the hunting of Global criminals for nearly ten years....money well spent I say

Actually the war in Iraq was originally to find WMD, but after that went well they also added that it was to free its citizens from Saddam. I personally don’t like spending my money to free people that don’t like being free.

[sunshyne]

*sigh* the worst part about this section of the board is teaching people what they are debating…

you're ignorant

And you’re a bitch…I WIN the name calling game! :clap:

hmmm... ignorant = unaware; uninformed. in conjunction with the rest of the sentance, my statement is true.

I guess you do want to win at the name calling game, good for you, now grow up :clap:

*sigh* the worst part about this section of the board is teaching people what they are debating…

*sigh* you aren't teaching me anything, except that you can paste and copy from big O's website, and that when someone tries to voice an opinion you become a dick.

My original post has a link that supports it.

Here's one for the 106 billion, and actually 7 billion is going to go towards swine flu stuff, http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Congress_ap...62009.html

heres one about an opinion of the financial state of our country
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/finan...ouble.html

the whole purpose of a debate is for people to have opposing opinions and for them to civily debate each side. But since you want to get personal and emotional, and all mad at me because I think the government spending the billions of dollars it is won't help our country but hurt it in the long run, you can call me names and then go cry like a big baby if it makes you feel better.

[Wiener Poopie]

You’re right, I didn’t teach you anything because im not going to waste my time! :lol:

[sunshyne]

:eh: Ooo i guess you showed me

[zdunklee]

Meh, 106 billion to slowly end the war is nothing compared to the 5 trillion that Bush already spent on the war in the first place (50 times less actually). Granted Obama has spent a lot of money so far, but it would be hard to get out of the war and not spend money unless we stupidly pull everyone out at one time. Of course that isn't possible because then we look like even bigger dicks to the rest of the world for not finishing what we started in the first place.

[Mad Dog]

Meh, 106 billion to slowly end the war is nothing compared to the 5 trillion that Bush already spent on the war in the first place (50 times less actually). Granted Obama has spent a lot of money so far, but it would be hard to get out of the war and not spend money unless we stupidly pull everyone out at one time. Of course that isn't possible because then we look like even bigger dicks to the rest of the world for not finishing what we started in the first place.

Ok Z, I have a question, What do you think would have happened if 9/11 would have happened and we would have went to war with Afganistan only? I will guess that Sadam Hussain would still be a giant pain in our Ass. He would never have given up chasing after nukes, chemical weapons, and building his stupid army and sooner or later I guarantee you we would have been fighting him, cause that's how he rolls. He would have done something like invade Kwuaite again, or done and armed land grab against Saudia Arabia. He most certainly loved lobbing Scud missiles toward Isreal and would have certainly terrorized Tel Aviv with them again. And there is only so long Isreal would have put up with that before they would have retaliated and we would have been drug into that fight. He couldn't help himself. He was a stupid thick headed thug in charge of a Terrorized population of Iraqies. He needed disposed of in the worst way and that is EXACTLY what happened to him, courtesy of George Bush II.

That was 5 trillion well spent in my book :thumbup: My only bitch is that he didn't go after Iran and North Korea while he was at it :thumbdown:

[zdunklee]

Meh, 106 billion to slowly end the war is nothing compared to the 5 trillion that Bush already spent on the war in the first place (50 times less actually). Granted Obama has spent a lot of money so far, but it would be hard to get out of the war and not spend money unless we stupidly pull everyone out at one time. Of course that isn't possible because then we look like even bigger dicks to the rest of the world for not finishing what we started in the first place.

Ok Z, I have a question, What do you think would have happened if 9/11 would have happened and we would have went to war with Afganistan only? I will guess that Sadam Hussain would still be a giant pain in our Ass. He would never have given up chasing after nukes, chemical weapons, and building his stupid army and sooner or later I guarantee you we would have been fighting him, cause that's how he rolls. He would have done something like invade Kwuaite again, or done and armed land grab against Saudia Arabia. He most certainly loved lobbing Scud missiles toward Isreal and would have certainly terrorized Tel Aviv with them again. And there is only so long Isreal would have put up with that before they would have retaliated and we would have been drug into that fight. He couldn't help himself. He was a stupid thick headed thug in charge of a Terrorized population of Iraqies. He needed disposed of in the worst way and that is EXACTLY what happened to him, courtesy of George Bush II.

That was 5 trillion well spent in my book :thumbup: My only bitch is that he didn't go after Iran and North Korea while he was at it :thumbdown:

Don't EVER put Sadam Hussain and 9/11 in the same sentence, they have NOTHING to do with each other, it is a known fact that Al Quadea hated Hussain only second to the U.S. and until we started the war in Iraq Al Quadea never even had a foothold there to speak of (but guess who moved in after we attacked, yup Al Quadea).

I agree we would have gone to war eventually with Iraq, but if they started it we would have had the full support of the United Nations and it most likely wouldn't have cost us nearly as much money as it has because we would have had the help of many other countries that refused to help us in the first place. Even GWB admited his original reasons for going into Iraq were the wrong ones. How many people to you know that have been on a tour in Iraq? I know at least 10 and they would rather be in Afghanistan fighting Al Quadea because they actually have the ability to hit us on our own turf, unlike any of those other countries you speak about.

Really 5 trillion well spent huh? I guess if you think that was well spent you should stop bitching so much about the mere $700 billion or so that Obama has spent so far thenbecause that is terribly hypocritical of you, hell even doubling that amount still makes it hypocritical. (On our own country no less, not some other piece of shit nation, Saudia Arabia I can see helping out because they are the largest oil producing country in the world, but Isreal is a worthless nation that only causes fights as much as they get picked on by other nations)

I myself don't like any of this spending over the last 8+ years because it has screwed us as a nation. The only reason I somewhat agree with bailing out the automakers is because they are virturally the only manufacturing base that we have left in this country, and what happens if another World War breaks out and they aren't around? One of the biggest reasons that we were so dominate in WW2 was because of Ford and GM converting their plants to build tanks and other equipment. Even then I am still not 100% sold that it was the right way to go yet.

[Mad Dog]

9/11 Sadam Husain 9/11 Sadam Husain 9/11 Sadam Husain 9/11 Sadam Husain 9/11 Sadam Husain. I'll say what I like, How do you like that??

[plumpenut]

you guys make me laugh :thumbup:

[plumpenut]

sunshyne- I dont mean to nitpick but it was 7.7 billion for swine flu...and if thats true its crazy

[Mad Dog]

[zdunklee]

Really? That's good to know you don't care about the accuracy of your infomation when debating, effing moron. Please leave the real debating up to the adults.

Take your blinders off and look for news that isn't from the right or left american media machines for once, of course being conservative you would blindly assume the two are related anyway, much like liberals blindly follow Obama.

Hell even GWB acknowledges that they are not related himself:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhHamDHk-B0[/youtube]

Personally I believe that besides the mishandeling of the war in Iraq GWB was actually a good President.

[Mad Dog]

Really? That's good to know you don't care about the accuracy of your infomation when debating, effing moron. Please leave the real debating up to the adults.

Take your blinders off and look for news that isn't from the right or left american media machines for once, of course being conservative you would blindly assume the two are related anyway.

Hell even GWB acknowledges that they are not related himself:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhHamDHk-B0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdonklephant%2Ecom%2F2008%2F12%2F16%2Fbush%2Dal%2Dqaeda%2Dwasnt%2Din%2Diraq%2Dbefore%2Dwar%2Dso%2Dwhat%2F&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

[zdunklee]

See what a child you are? Honestly? I am clearly not against war at all, but I would like to be fighting the right people (al-Queda). It is useless debate with your insecure childish ass anyway because you can't come up with any substance whatsoever.


Also to stay on topic, Sunshyne, Obama did have all American troops removed from major Iraq cities last week, so I have to believe he is slowly trying to end our involvement there.....at least I hope he finally is.












Learn.To.Read.It.Works.Great.

[Wiener Poopie]

Granted Obama has spent a lot of money so far

[sunshyne]

See what a child you are? Honestly? I am clearly not against war at all, but I would like to be fighting the right people (al-Queda). It is useless debate with your insecure childish ass anyway because you can't come up with any substance whatsoever.


Also to stay on topic, Sunshyne, Obama did have all American troops removed from major Iraq cities last week, so I have to believe he is slowly trying to end our involvement there.....at least I hope he finally is.




Learn.To.Read.It.Works.Great.

I never argued that he wasn't bringing troops out of Iraq, I just said he was moving the war to another place, not "ending" the war. And the original topic was that O's advisors were suggesting that the US consider another "stimulus" package, and I thought it was a crock.

[zdunklee]

I agree, the last thing we need is another stimulus. The war in Afghanistan has been going on even tho the Iraq one is all we hear about now. I hope he doesn't just shift the war, we don't need nearly the force to try and get Osama as we did for Iraq cause Al-Queda doesn't have any real way to fight back against our troops compared to what Saddam had.

[professorpinasheep]

.... cause Al-Queda doesn't have any real way to fight back against our troops compared to what Saddam had.

Err.. what? They seem to have done a fine job so far.. Otherwise we would've been finished with this mess a LONG time ago. The problem here is that you can't "win" against a fluid, moveable group of people like Al-Queda. You can achieve objectives, remove strongholds, establish "democracy", etc.. But how can you declare victory against a belief?

As for not having a way to fight back, they've been using and will continue to use the most effective means available: guerilla warfare. They're not stupid, as much as we'd like to think they are. A bit blinded by their own zealotry, sure.. but they realize how to win, or at least hold us off. When you fight someone who has to abide by certain rules, you win by exploiting those rules. THEY don't have to identify themselves, vocally or visually (uniform, etc).. we have to warn before using force. THEY can leave roadside bombs wherever they like.. we have to worry about collateral damage. THEY can headquarter in the midst of neighborhoods, school campuses and hospital basements.. we have to have an established central command away from civilian property. Hell, that's how we won the Revolutionary War.. we exploited the rigidity of the rules the Brits had to abide by.

Unfortunately, It's really very simple to find effective ways to combat our army and win support in the court of public opinion. I really hope things begin to swing farther our way in terms of momentum and we can begin to see a light at the end of the tunnel, but it does seem bleak.

[Philly Mike]

okay this thread is kind of out of control, and kind of pointless.

First off, it is an ADVISOR saying to do this stimulus, obama never said he would do so, maybe you should hold off on any assumption that this will take place. Then you have the complaint to say he is moving the war elsewhere? If anyone paid attention to Obama's plans from the beginning, afghanistan is the place that he felt from the beginning we should have been in and only been there. He stated in the primaries that he wanted to get our troops out of Iraq and get their forces working on their own and get our forces after al qaeda where they are at in afghanistan.

Now as far as the whole sadam 9/11 thing goes, well sadam may have been one of the worse people ever in existence, but thing is he couldn't do shit against us and he knew it, and on top of it he kept Iran in check and he also kept al qaeda from spreading into his country, so even though the world is better off without him he also was kind of beneficial too.

Regardless of any of this, these links to any of these news reports are so skewed to show one side of the arguments that you can't really trust whatever you read in most of these places. Basically until Obama officially announces that he wants to bring this suggestion into play I don't really thing there is any point at all in complaining about something. That is like getting in a heated argument with someone over if Harry potter would be able to kick Gandalf's ass.

[professorpinasheep]

Dude, you don't eff with Gandalf. He's like a servant to the Valar, for Pete's sake. He'd knock the ess out of some punk teenage wizard wannabe.

[Philly Mike]

Dude, you don't eff with Gandalf. He's like a servant to the Valar, for Pete's sake. He'd knock the ess out of some punk teenage wizard wannabe.

yeah he would... but that's besides the point.

[stopsign]

This thread is now about something that has a chance at being resolved:
Bad ass motherfucker

VS
Little bitch


How long would it take for Gandalf to drop his ass?