"one nation under god" no more

IkeaBoy · 06-26-2002, 07:26 PM

I haven't posted an article in awhile and this is actually an interesting topic.

Quote:Pledge Ruled Unconstitutional
Wed Jun 26, 3:10 PM ET
By DAVID KRAVETS, Associated Press Writer

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - For the first time ever, a federal appeals court declared the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional Wednesday because of the words "under God" added by Congress in 1954.

The ruling, if allowed to stand, means schoolchildren can no longer recite the pledge, at least in the nine Western states covered by the court.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ( news - web sites) said the phrase amounts to a government endorsement of religion in violation of the Constitution's Establishment Clause, which requires a separation of church and state.

"A profession that we are a nation `under God' is identical, for Establishment Clause purposes, to a profession that we are a nation `under Jesus,' a nation `under Vishnu,' a nation `under Zeus,' or a nation `under no god,' because none of these professions can be neutral with respect to religion," Judge Alfred T. Goodwin wrote for the three-judge panel.

The government had argued that the religious content of "one nation under God" is minimal.

But the appeals court said that an atheist or a holder of certain non-Judeo-Christian beliefs could see it as an endorsement of monotheism.

The 9th Circuit covers Alaska, Arizona, California, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oregon and Washington state. Those are the only states directly affected by the ruling.

However, the ruling does not take effect for several months, to allow further appeals. The government can ask the court to reconsider, or take its case to the U.S. Supreme Court.

The case was brought by Michael A. Newdow, a Sacramento atheist who objected because his second-grade daughter was required to recite the pledge at the Elk Grove school district. A federal judge had dismissed his lawsuit.

"I'm an American citizen. I don't like my rights infringed upon by my government," he said in an interview. Newdow called the pledge a "religious idea that certain people don't agree with."

The appeals court said that when President Eisenhower signed the legislation inserting "under God" after the words "one nation," he wrote that "millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty."

The court noted that the U.S. Supreme Court has said students cannot hold religious invocations at graduations and cannot be compelled to recite the pledge. But when the pledge is recited in a classroom, a student who objects is confronted with an "unacceptable choice between participating and protesting," the appeals court said.

"Although students cannot be forced to participate in recitation of the pledge, the school district is nonetheless conveying a message of state endorsement of a religious belief when it requires public school teachers to recite, and lead the recitation of, the current form of the pledge," the court said.

Arpikarhu · 06-26-2002, 07:27 PM

so now we just cut and paste whatever issue O&A are talking about.lamer and lamer

PollyannaFlower46 · 06-26-2002, 07:28 PM

You beat me to it Ikea, I got that in my mail at work. It's ridiculous...I mean seriously, are we going to change what our currency says now too? Even as an atheist, and an anti-organized religion person, I think this is stupid.

OAS · 06-26-2002, 07:30 PM

I always had more of a problem with the liberty and justice for all part more than the one nation under god thing.

In one of the baseball leagues I umpire, all games require both teams to line up and say the pledge before the game begins. One team has a muslim player, who sit's out the pledge every time.

IkeaBoy · 06-26-2002, 07:33 PM

Quote:I always had more of a problem with the liberty and justice for all part more than the one nation under god thing.

Well were around pre-"Under God" anyway so you needed something to complain about.

PollyannaFlower46 · 06-26-2002, 07:35 PM

Quote:One team has a muslim player, who sit's out the pledge every time.

In defense of the Muslim kid, I don't think Jehova's Witnesses say it either...it's not an issue of patriotism, its an issue of religion. But if you're a Muslim, now might be a good time to learn to assimilate.

Arpikarhu · 06-26-2002, 07:35 PM

Quote:One team has a muslim player, who sit's out the pledge every time

for that reason alone i agree with getting rid of the pledge. why should anyone be singled out because of thier religion or personal beliefs? the pledge itself creates situations that this country is sworn to protect us from.

AdolescentMasturbator · 06-26-2002, 07:37 PM

Whenever I say the pledge I always take out the Under God part. As an Atheist I shouldn't have to believe I'm in a nation that is under God. That's a theocracy. And we all know well theocracies work out.

PollyannaFlower46 · 06-26-2002, 07:38 PM

Arpi, you make a very good point, but shouldn't we also eliminate religious holidays from being national holidays as well? I for one would like my mail on Christmas.

Arpikarhu · 06-26-2002, 07:40 PM

Quote:Arpi, you make a very good point, but shouldn't we also eliminate religious holidays from being national holidays as well? I for one would like my mail on Christmas.

yes, they should be eliminated. we get 2 christian holidays but no jewish, muslim, or any other. i consider that discrimination.

OAS · 06-26-2002, 07:41 PM

He's not being singled out. He chooses not to say the pledge. He is an American citizen, playing America's game, reaping the benefits of America, including his freedom of religion. If he chooses to sit out, he can. There is no penalty for not saying the pledge. One nation under God could easily be interpreted by him as one nation under Allah if he desired.

PollyannaFlower46 · 06-26-2002, 07:41 PM

Quote:i consider that discrimination.

You wanna make some money? :thumbs-up:

Arpikarhu · 06-26-2002, 07:43 PM

Quote:There is no penalty for not saying the pledge.

there is a subtle penalty. he is being singled out for his religious choices.

Quote:One nation under God could easily be interpreted by him as one nation under Allah if he desired.

there isnt a person in this country that thinks Allah is the reference in the pledge

fbd · 06-26-2002, 07:43 PM

i dont see the point of the entire pledge.i saw it all every day in school, and it wont stop me from treason or anything.its words that i say by memory, no real meaning

The Sleeper · 06-26-2002, 07:44 PM

Quote:yes, they should be eliminated. we get 2 christian holidays but no jewish, muslim, or any other. i consider that discrimination.

in high school we got Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanna off, and then all the jewsh kids would take off the 50 other holidays you people have, so stop complaining.

PollyannaFlower46 · 06-26-2002, 07:47 PM

All the Jewish kids took off cause school was closed...and besides I never heard a Christian complain about getting off for Yom Kippur, etc.

I love religious holidays that give me a day off from school...while everyone else spends time with their families, etc. my atheist ass shops.

OAS · 06-26-2002, 07:47 PM

Quote:i dont see the point of the entire pledge.i saw it all every day in school, and it wont stop me from treason or anything.its words that i say by memory, no real meaning

You have no passion or aligance to your nation? Do you need to see September 11th all over again to get a clue. Do you not have any appretiation for the ten's of thousands that died for your freedom? Wanna try life in Iran or Iraq for awhile to maybe get a clue?

Quote:there isnt a person in this country that thinks Allah is the reference in the pledge

It is fact that we are a nation founded on christian principal, but the refrence to God is that of a supreme being. It can be whomever you want it to be.

Edited By OAS on June 26 2002 at 3:53

Maynard · 06-26-2002, 07:50 PM

Why not just amend the pledge to take out the God part, or write a new one.

Something more patriotic. Freedom, liberty, and equality being the basis for it.

fbd · 06-26-2002, 07:50 PM

Quote:You have no passion or aligance to your nation? Do you need to see September 11th all over again to get a clue. Do you not have any appretiation for the ten's of thousands that died for your freedom? Wanna try life in Iran or Iraq for awhile to maybe get a clue?

when did i say that?all i said was that the plege itself is pointless, since the vast majority of people view it as simply words.i do have aligance to the country, but it has nothing to do with the pledge that never once had a meaning from the day it was beaten into my brain

PollyannaFlower46 · 06-26-2002, 07:51 PM

I was at a Yankees game a few weeks ago and some "man" sat during the National Anthem while there were Marines on the field presenting the flag. No one in my section but myself had the balls to say something to him...there's no religious reference in the Star Spangled Banner, and at the very least, show some respect to the men on the field willing to lay their lives for you.