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Displaying 26-33 of 33 messages in this thread. |
| Posted By | Discussion Topic: RAW on 3/4...Anyone wanna wrestle on the show? | ||||
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| Officer Joe Friday | posted on 03-06-2002 @ 8:34 PM |    | |||
| Psychopath Registered: May. 01  | quote: Oh yeah? My dad could kick the crap out of your dad!!!! Seriously, how lame is that statement? ------------------- But there's also this: there are over 5,000 men in this city, who know that being a policeman is an endless, glamourless, thankless job that's gotta be done. I know it, too, and I'm damn glad to be one of them." | ||||
| Sir Okonkwo | posted on 03-07-2002 @ 3:47 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | quote:It would be lame if it weren't true. Or maybe it's lame, because it is true. Seriously, once Kawada kicks Rocky's head for the first time, he'd be questioning why he didn't stay in Hollywood. Throw in the Backdrop Drivers, Tiger Drivers, high-angle powerbombs, stiff punches, elbows, and submissions, and the WWF crew will be yearning for the Raw tapings and loose ass matches back home. Not an insult, just reality. You think these guys would compromise their product for a one shot deal with Vince? Nope. Against the All Japan regulars, I'd say Kurt Angle, William Regal, and Chris Benoit would be the only ones able to keep up, and even they are all question marks. The rest of the roid abusers and chronically injured workers on the WWF roster just wouldn't be able to hack it. What do you want me to do, lie? WWF workers, while they have impressive physiques, are not well equipped to work the rigorous All Japan style. There's a reason why bodybuilders don't regularly compete in World's Strongest Man competitions, and that's the best analogy I can make as to why WWF workers would be best off not competing in All Japan rings. Sorry if the truth stings a little bit.  FTL is not to blame for this abomination of a sig pic. | ||||
| skitchr4u G.O.O.F.B.A.H.G.S. Xtreme Skiing Assualt Force | posted on 03-07-2002 @ 9:33 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Dec. 00 | i might be inclined to throw jericho and tajiri on your list sir o... oh, and my elitist comment was [tog] sorry if anyone took it seriously  | ||||
| Hello! Hello! Diamond Dust! Hello! | posted on 03-07-2002 @ 11:44 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 01 | Well, Sir O, all I have to say is that I used up all the black jokes I can think of. yes, my reportoire IS that limited! As for why I don't expand my horizons, I think it's because I've read so much crap about Puroresu (thanks for the spelling hint) from people much like you who have been just as obnoxious to me, if not MORE believe it or not, and I find that the majority of them defend Puroresu by BASHING American wrestling. This attitude has turned me off so much, I think I've, whether it's right or not, associated the product itself with this attitude, and so have linked Puroresu with "snobbish asshole" in my mind to the point where I really couldn't give a shit about it. If I didn't have the internet or didn't go to wrestling websites beforehand, I might have gotten into it eventually, but alas, the guys trying to sell me on the product ended up doing more damage than good in my interest on watching Japanese wrestling. The thing that just irritates me so much, though, is the bashing of the US product to make the Japanese product look superior. How about defending it by, you know, defending it? I realize you are at a disadvantage because the people you defend it against haven't watched a second of it, and so the only common point of reference is WWF programming, however, you can do a better job of explaining it and what you love about it. Instead of saying, "I think the Rock should go in a cave in Afghanistan near bin Laden so we can kill BOTH major enemies of Western civilization at once!" why don't you try to explain to me why Sum Yungguy and Wantang Willy are great? Yeah, they put on great matches, that's fine. But HOW are they great matches? What is the style? Is it a whole bunch of Rey Mysterio Jr's flying around? That would interest me! Is it 30 Chris Benoits all looking like he does when he kills his opponent with chops that put even Ric Flair to shame? That would interest me even more! Are there millions of different styles? Is there anyone wrestling there that I've seen in WWF, WCW, or ECW that I might recognize so I can get off to a good start before I get into other guys in the company? Is there at least a little hint of storyline to get me into it, because while I hate "all storyline, no wrestling" shows, I equally hate "all wrestling, no storyline" shows. You might interest me in that product, then, if you told me about this. But I don't know who the hell you are interesting to get into the product when you say, "Puroresu rules cuz the WWF sucks, yo!" Ok, terrific. Next, please. Whether you like to admit it or not, if you're on a wrestling message board in America, alot of the people there are gonna really like the WWF, so maybe you shouldn't try to call them idiots for that fact if you want them to respect your opinions and open their eyes. And, yes, I DO criticize the WWF when need be. I don't think the product is the greatest it's ever been, but I certainly don't think it's a bad product, and feel that with a little tweaking (and the impending split is part of that), the quality of shows can easily turn into as good or better than it was at it's peak, which I'd say was most of the year 2000. | ||||
| Sir Okonkwo | posted on 03-07-2002 @ 11:40 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | Damn, lots of questions. I'll do my best...quote:Well, I'll start off by saying that not every match in Japan is good, and not every match in the US is bad. But the overall match quality is generally better. For example, on an average NJPW TV show, you're usually guaranteed at least two or three matches that will last about 10-20 minutes, and tell a good story within the context of the match. Compare that with a WWF TV show, where you might find one, maybe two matches that go 10+ minutes, and too often there is no story to be told by the match, because the match only exists to kill time until the "soap opera" plays out around the finish. On tonight's Smackdown, I didn't see any matches where the ringwork seemed to serve a purpose. For example, the Goldust/RVD match was only there to a)debut shiny gold weapons, and b)reinforce the fact that Regal is a heel and RVD is a face. Compare that to a Japan TV match (say, Taiyo Kea/Mitsuya Nagai), which would generally not invlove cutsey weapons or outside interference, and the ringwork means so much more because the actual winner of the match means so much more, because the real storyline is to determine who is the better wrestler and who moves closer to title contention. Now concerning the actual style of match, let's first look at the WWF. The basic WWF match has a kind of "your turn, my turn" feel to it, as one wrestler hits a couple of their moves, then the other wrestler hits a couple of their moves, go back and forth a few times, throw in a whole lot of high speed and (for the most part) loose, unrealistic looking strikes, lots of unnecessary running of the ropes, cut to finish. The transitions between "turns" are often very contrived and fake looking, and often overused (one day, I'm going to keep track of the number of times in one WWF show where a missed lariat leads to the opponent getting the upper hand). The result is a very coreographed and unrealistic looking match which leaves little room for error. Now, a puro match, in general, will have stiffer strikes (a punch really looks like a punch, a knee really looks like a knee), much less running around, transitions that make sense within the context of the match and not just because it's the opponent's "turn", and finishes that are built up to throughout the match, rather than a ref bump or outside interference spelling the end (for example, Mutoh working his opponent's leg so bad that after a while it's difficult for him to stand, leading to the "shining wizard" knee to the face). That's a very general assesment, but it's the best I could do without writing a book, given the numerous styles in Japan. quote:There are a bunch of different styles. The "lucharesu" style (Toryumon, Michinoku Pro) is probably the easiset to get into at first for a puro novice (you've seen some of it I'm sure, remember the 6-man tag from ECW Barely Legal?). Basically focused on lighter, more athletic wrestlers, with a good balance of tight matwork and and amazing highspots. Not the most brutal and hard hitting style, but very fun and often visually stunning. Then there's shootstyle (UWF-I, RINGS, BattlArts). The idea behind shootstyle is to make it as realistic as possible, with VERY tight stiff matwork and suplexes, hard, vicious strikes, painful submissions, and almost no running of the ropes or jumping off the buckles. Watching a good shootstyle match, if you didn't know that it's worked, you wouldn't be able to tell. Not really the easiest style to get into, but once you do acquire a taste for it, it's really amazing and deep stuff. All Japan strong style - My personal favorite. Throughout the 90's, AJ had the best roster of main eventers, with Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi, Taue, Tsuruta, Hansen, Dr. Death, among others. The matches are as dramatic as you'll ever find (HHH has nothing on Misawa when it comes to creating drama inside the ring), the moves very clean, very brutal. Very little focus on matwork, as most of the attention is paid to high impact suplexes and throws, and strikes that you'll feel just by watching them. Think of WWF style slowed down to about 1/2 speed, with a greater sense of danger and more brutality, and you'll get a general idea of AJPW. I prefer All Japan from before 97, because around that time, they started to go overboard with the head dropping and dramatics, which detracted from the overall product IMO. There's plenty more styles (NJPW, deathmatches, Joshi), I'll get into that tomorrow. quote:I'll tell you what, if you do decide to get a puro tape, get the 1994 Super J Cup. It's got Malenko, Benoit, Liger, Sasuke, Eddy Guerrero, and Taka Michinoku among others in what's probably the best junior heavyweight tournament ever. Many people have been hooked on puro through this tape alone. Also, the 1995 J Cup is worth getting as well, with Jericho, Ultimo Dragon, Funaki, Liger, Benoit, as well as a non tourney match between Rey Misterio Jr. and Psichosis. quote:Again, it varies by promotion. For the most part, the storylines in Japan focus around the sport of wrestling (the chase for titles, winning big matches, tournaments). There's also a lot of interpromotional stuff going on lately (REAL interpromotional stuff, not Invasion BS), but remember it's all in Japanese, so if someone were to cut a HHH-like 20 minute in ring promo, you wouldn't have a clue what was going on anyway. Other advantages: No annoying announcers overhyping everything. Unless you understand Japanese, it's just background noise. And even if you don't, they can be entertaining to listen to. No Stephanie McMahon ruining every segment she's in. Yep, she's WWF for life. No silly feuds over face lotion, shampoo commercials, or spilled coffee. Yes, there are faces and heels, but that is determined mostly by their actions in the ring, not their backstage character. Anyway, I hope I could clear a few things up here. Any more questions, feel free to ask. Also (and I can't stress this enough), visit DeathValleyDriver.com. Compared to the guys there, I don't know shit. From the main page, check out the Schneider Comps. All tapes are 8 hours, have a very good variety of all different styles with brief match descriptions. Very, very helpful stuff. Also, read through some of their video reviews to give you even more of an idea of the different styles and what to expect. That's all for now... FTL is not to blame for this abomination of a sig pic. | ||||
| Se7en | posted on 03-10-2002 @ 12:18 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Oct. 01 | Other advantages: No annoying announcers overhyping everything. Unless you understand Japanese, it's just background noise. And even if you don't, they can be entertaining to listen to. Damn right. Like an idiot, I grin every time I hear an enthusiastic "EXPLODAH!" or "LARIATOOOO!!!!" from the announcers. ;) I second the notion to check out the DVD site. I bow to their superior knowledge on all things wrestling, but they frighten me. I mean, I know of no other humans so totally consumed with the business.  "Being a bastard WORKS." --Spider Jerusalem | ||||
| HydratedPeach So... how did you get your spiffy new status? Age-Challenged Sexual Tension Relief Worker | posted on 03-10-2002 @ 12:24 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jul. 01 | Golly, SirO, thanks for making me feel like a lowly mark... :p | ||||
| Bloody Anus P.L.F. Portugese Liberation Front- Liberating Status' everywhere from the Tyranny of Portugal HYBRID THINKS I'M A GENIUS | posted on 03-10-2002 @ 6:11 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jul. 00 | Bra fuckin vo, Okonkwo, se7en.. as usual I join in the conversation late and have nothing to add that hasn't already been said. But I just wanted to let it be known that I am one of the "5" puro fans in the states...
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Displaying 26-33 of 33 messages in this thread. |