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 Displaying 26-50 of 59 messages in this thread. |
| Posted By | Discussion Topic: Lilly Gone From Yanks | ||||
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| krahzee | posted on 07-06-2002 @ 9:53 PM |    | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Mar. 02  | The Yankees got Weaver this cheap for one reason: $$$$ As good as this guy can be his salary is the following over the next three years: $4.1 million this year, $6.25 million in 2004 and $9.25 million in 2005. For a team like Detroit, money is always an issue. They are a smaller market team. It does not matter how many asses they put into the seats, TV revenue is where the big money is. That is why the Yankees started YES. For a team like the Tigers, the TV market they are in will never support a team on par with the Yankees, Mets, Braves, or any other big market team. They were looking to pull a trade for prospects, and lower overhead at the same time. At 17&1/2 games behind Minn. and in dead last place, they will not get better overnight. They wanted to get prospects and do what teams like the A's have done. Put together good seasons with talented, low cost guys on rookie contracts, sprinkled in with a few decent, low cost veterans. Nothing wrong with that. It is just sad how uncompetitive baseball has become. While a cap will not fix it, it will be a start in the right direction. As far as the arguement of the NBA cap not working goes, Shaq is a unique situation. Since he has been in the league, very few have been strong enough to guard him. Ewing could somewhat contain him when Shaq was on the Magic, but those days have long passed. He is the reason the Lakers have won title after title, along with shrewd pickups of guys to fill key roles, and smart drafting in selecting Kobe. That said, the Lakers may win, but look at teams like the Nets, Boston, Knicks, and Dallas. The teams that make smart trades and work within the cap do well, while teams like the Knicks go down the shitter. Having a cap in baseball will not keep teams from making stupid personel decisions, but it will keep teams like the Yankees, Mets, ect... from buying thier way out of them by bringing in big names halfway through the season at huge costs to fix them. | ||||
| CriticsLoveSnatch i know better than to ask for a status from you mean ol' mods I shall call him mini-FTL | posted on 07-06-2002 @ 9:57 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | you're right, the tigers are a lower market team. they are also one of the most poorly run organizations in baseball. they are the team who traded their entire farm system to the rangers for juan gonzalez, only to have him leave for free agency the year later. this is the team who traded more blue-chip prospects away for roger cedeno, only to see him leave the following year to free agency as well. they have less money problems, detroit is a relatively large market that has been run into the ground by a bad team for the last 7-10 years. they have to find a decent GM first then worry about spending wisely. I have no answers I am no hero, thats for sure But I do know one thing Where you are is where I belong Where you go is where I want to be. | ||||
| krahzee | posted on 07-06-2002 @ 10:47 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Mar. 02 | quote: Maybe they learned thier lesson. Keeping Weaver in three years, if he was still good, would have been impossible too. They still would have sucked given that they don't have the financial resources to do what the Mets, Yankees and Atlanta do every year to fill key needs. Weaver would have either left to play for a winner, or they would have been outbid by another team. Instead they did what I think was a fairly smart thing. They traded him for guys who will help them down the road while his stock was still fairly high. Why keep him as you rebuild hoping he doesn't blow out his arm in the meantime, when you can get prospects in return? No trade is ever a sure thing, but prospects are better than nothing in three years. | ||||
| Cluster F | posted on 07-06-2002 @ 11:36 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote: You think youre better than everyone, you arrogant piece of shit? You and Jays seem to be content on labeling anyone against the Yankees and their cause as Mets fans, when it is much more than just Mets fans. Thats actually the main reason that im pissed at this whole conversation...your willingness to label every baseball fan against what the yankees do as sorry Mets fans. That just isnt fair. Now that i got that out :), the facts are that the rules are written in a shitty way by the league, and the Yankees takes those rules and shove them face first into the mud. It just pisses me off when teams like the Yankees, in all sports, pull off moves like this, taking advantage of the lower market teams. And it pisses me off more when guys like Jays and Snatch try to defend their team for their actions. CLS, ive read all you have said. And i disagree with what you say, but i do respect your opinion, and you do have some points to your argument. I just dont know how anyone can say that this is not bad for the game of baseball, a game that is going to destroy itself soon if shit like this continues. And it doesnt help that the high market teams (the Mets included) arent helping the league stay more competitively balanced. Although i stand by my point that the Yankees always seem to give away nothing and take advantage of bad teams, whereas the Mets, in this past offseason, had to deal legitimate talent for EVERY trade they made.  Thanks to Austin for the pic 1. 94 Wins and NL East Title by the Mets this year 2. Hate the Braves with a passion 3. All 5 Starters have winning records this year 4. Mets win World Series 5. Hold out hope for winning the pennant, but look forward to football, hockey, and basketball Crack Committee Members: Cluster F, Rageparty, Bloody Anus, DiamondDust, JayMohrMassage, HammerSavage, PeterDragon, and 1888RustyTrombone...the force is growing. This message was edited by Cluster F on 7-6-02 @ 11:37 PM | ||||
| TeenWeek what's a status? | posted on 07-06-2002 @ 11:43 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | For all those in favor of revenue sharing, Can someone explain to me how arguably the worst team in baseball the Milwaukee Brewers made a bigger profit last year than the New York Yankees. I am sick and tired of this bullshit. The Yankees play within the rules. The yankees are picked on because they win. The Mets, the Red Sox, the Dodgers, the Braves, and the texas rangers, etc do the same goddamn thing as the yankees. You have the haves and the have nots in baseball. I agree there should be a salary cap, but I wholeheartedly disagree that Steinbrenner should be lining the pockets of owners who could not give a shit about their team and pocket the money. The Mets this year are spending the money but face it they are a total disaster. Any Met fan should not be complaining about the yankees spending , because you are a hypocrite. Put out a good team every now and than. Hello, no one in the league wanted Ventura and the Mets would have gotten rid of him for a bag of magical beans. The Yankees struck gold. As long as this policy exists baseball will always be this way. Selig is a sham of a comissioner. Fay Vincent was the best thing that happened to baseball and the owners wanted to get rid of him. he was against realignment. he was against interleague play (What series besides the Yankees and Mets does anyone really give a shit about) and he was against the Wildcard team. More teams in the playoffs means more moeny for the owners. I heard something that in the last 18 years or so in the NBA, either the Celtics, lakers, Knicks, Rockets or Bulls have been in every single NBA finals. I am in favor of contraction in baseball. I say get rid of about 10 teams. Any team that does not want to put the money that lines their pockets back into the team should either be contracted or sold. Fuck the Royals, Marlins, Devil Rays, Brewers. 4 good teams to start with. Selig and the owners created this monster and they are going to have to live with it. The Players union is stronger than the mafia. I am a huge yankee fan and I always will be. All of these fucknuts should be ashamed that they are going on strike. If Selig had an even ounce of balls there wouldnt be.  This message was edited by TeenWeek on 7-6-02 @ 11:43 PM | ||||
| TheJays This status sponsored by: P®oJë©T M@¥h?m: I MAKE COOL PICTURES Proud To Be An American | posted on 07-07-2002 @ 12:00 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: If the rules are written in a shitty way, and a team takes all those rules to their advantage, then I'll show you a smart and well managed team, because I bet they kno all the rules that are written. You should be blaming the smaller teams for not trying to compete. Its not like the Yankees are destined to be THE team to beat. Smaller teams dont need to make the trades. No one is putting a gun to their head. Its a teams fault for not wanting players to return at free agency. The owners believe that the team they have can suceed in whatever market they are in. If they didnt, they would relocate the team to a better market. From that point onward, the owners and managers of the franchise are at the heart of the responsibilty for creating a strong market, a strong system, and a good team. The Yankees do all of this well, and it has paid off. And Im sorry other teams cant do it, I really am. Or can they? At last check, the Braves were the best in the league, the Dodgers are 1st in the NL west, and Seattle continues to get better after getting rid of the best players in the league over the past few years. I want to see an underdog win, always. And I'll be cheering for the Yankees as we CRUSH THE HOPES OF ALL OTHER TEAMS!!!1! BWAH HAHAH!  | ||||
| CriticsLoveSnatch i know better than to ask for a status from you mean ol' mods I shall call him mini-FTL | posted on 07-07-2002 @ 12:07 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | Selig is the biggest problem with baseball now. his daughter turns ridiculous profits in milwalkee while fielding a team most AAA clubs could beat. He doesn't give two shits about baseball for the fans, he cares about the millionare owner swine making millions more. the best thing for baseball would be to get rid of selig right now.quote: I think its less about yankees taking advantage and more about other teams not scouting properly, and somewhat buying into the yankee mystique. They see all these prospects turning to gold for the yankees, so are automatically interested in the yankee farm system. A lot of teams have traded good players for yankee prospects that don't pan out. this isn't the yankees fault, the mets and all the other teams who make deal trade prospects too, some pop and some don't. its all a crapshoot. the most important thing to do while trading is scout, and that is what the yankees do far better than any other team in baseball. I have no answers I am no hero, thats for sure But I do know one thing Where you are is where I belong Where you go is where I want to be. | ||||
| TheJays This status sponsored by: P®oJë©T M@¥h?m: I MAKE COOL PICTURES Proud To Be An American | posted on 07-07-2002 @ 12:17 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: I heard that the Pistons, Spurs, Magic, Pacers, 76ers, Nets, Sonics, Jazz, and Trailblazers were too. It only seems like this is all pent-up frustration in here. Teams need to learn that players never stop developing. It taks coaching and will power, not money, to be good. Set a goal, such as "beat the Yankees", and then follow through. Stop blaming it on managment, its not their fault guys dont drive in runs or pitchers give up runs. | ||||
| rageparty 123...Not so bare anymore since I got a number underneath my name again I also have an imaginary girlfriend. | posted on 07-07-2002 @ 12:26 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Aug. 01 | I just want to say how lucky the Yankees are to have Weaver! He was very impressive, it's a shame that he had a Tigers' jersey on to start his career. If the Yankees will put him in the rotation we'll see what he can do with run-support but I doubt he'll get an opportunity... Handling the pressure of NY is another story. Bring in a salary cap so there are no more excuses on whoever wins! I'm sick of this shit! People who got to see Baseball and every other sport for that matter in it's early stages is lucky! Back then it was up in the air, and players couldn't retire off of 1 years earnings...  | ||||
| CriticsLoveSnatch i know better than to ask for a status from you mean ol' mods I shall call him mini-FTL | posted on 07-07-2002 @ 12:32 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | i dunno about who played in the nba finals but heres a list of recent winners: 1991: Bulls 1992: Bulls 1993: Bulls 1994: Rockets 1995: Rockets 1996: Bulls 1997: Bulls 1998: Bulls 1999: Spurs 2000: Lakers 2001: Lakers 2002: Lakers 4 teams, 12 years. thats not what i'd call a level playing field. the only major sport with real equality is football, dynasties abound everywhere else. I have no answers I am no hero, thats for sure But I do know one thing Where you are is where I belong Where you go is where I want to be. | ||||
| TheJays This status sponsored by: P®oJë©T M@¥h?m: I MAKE COOL PICTURES Proud To Be An American | posted on 07-07-2002 @ 12:43 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: What is this shit about equality??? Its sports for Christ's sake. If you cheer on the Bulls, you want them to win every fucking year for the rest of eternity. Same with the Yankees, same with any team. The championship shoulnt fucking rotate to a different team every year. If a team is good, they win, and if the management can find a way to compose a championship team, hey, too fucking bad. Its professional sports. | ||||
| CriticsLoveSnatch i know better than to ask for a status from you mean ol' mods I shall call him mini-FTL | posted on 07-07-2002 @ 12:47 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | hey i agree with you. there have always been haves and have-nots in baseball. for the whole 40's and 50's the yankees, dodgers and giants were in almost every world series. its the way its always been, its hard changing 100 years of baseball history. I have no answers I am no hero, thats for sure But I do know one thing Where you are is where I belong Where you go is where I want to be. | ||||
| rageparty 123...Not so bare anymore since I got a number underneath my name again I also have an imaginary girlfriend. | posted on 07-07-2002 @ 12:52 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Aug. 01 | Jays, if the same team wins over and over again, the shitty teams lose fan-interest. They eventually go bankrupt and die! I know since you are a Yankee fan, you are waiting until the day the Yankees are the only team left in the MLB so obviously you don't care... | ||||
| Hello! Hello! Diamond Dust! Hello! | posted on 07-07-2002 @ 11:26 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 01 | TeenWeek, you make some good points. I recently read an article with a good idea on how to combat giving money to franchises that won't spend it on the team. It means having the bottom 10 teams getting the money from the highest revenue teams and of those 10 teams, they get the money distributed unevenly depending on wins. For example, the Diamondbacks, a small market team would get the most money since they've won. The Brewers, who pocket the money, would get the least amount of money. Now, the D-backs would be the most likely team to spend that money, so it makes sense. Also, maybe the Brewers, looking for more money, might actually start to spend THEIR money, too, in hopes they win more. Well, the guy who wrote it did a better job than mee of explaining, so here it is: Visit this Website It's a bit long winded, and sometimes boring, but just go to the "Solution" section to get the gist of it. I'm all for a system like that. Infact, I might change it a bit, where there is, say, a $70 million cap, and all teams that go over that cap have to pay a "penalty" of twice of how much they went over the cap. And THAT money is divided up to the bottom 10 teams like it is in the article. By doing that, then, let's say the Yankees want to spend $130 million on payroll like they do now.Well, with the penalty, they could only spend $90 million on players. They went $20 million over the cap, so they would have to spend the additional $40 million on the penalty that the small market teams could use. So, the Yanks have a $90 million payroll and the A's, let's say, get a $50 - $60 million payroll with all the additional money they get for winning. The disparity is now officially decreased to a manageable number and players aren't pissed because the money the Yanks aren't spending actually IS being spent. May not be the best solution, but the best one i've heard. 1. 94 Wins and the NL East title 2. Hate the Braves with a passion. 3. All 5 Starters have winning records this year 4. Mets win the World Series | ||||
| PeterDragon | posted on 07-07-2002 @ 12:49 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: No, we're only hypocrites if we think that the Mets should do it but not Yankees. Both teams are part of the "haves". Also, it depends on what you mean by "complaining". Again, it is perfectly "legal" for Yankees to do what they do, but that doesn't make it right. (Nor would it be right for Dodgers, Mets, etc.) quote: Again, a spurious argument. Attendance is only a small part of revenue streams. It would make their situation better, but a Yankee team that won 85 games would still make more money than a Royals team that won 100. This of course is where Steinbrenner is better to his fans than the Tribune company is to the Cub fans. Today's newsday had kind of a "point/counter point" on this today. Too good for their own good by John Heyman (Newsday) Don't Blame Boss, He's Just Playing the Game by Shaun Powell (Newsday) Boss on improving club: It's in my job description by Arthur Staple (Newsday)  2002 Crack Committee Objectives: (modified version)(You gotta try and believe....) 1.Hate the Braves with PASSION and extreme prejudice 1a. Try and go a week without having to punch a wall in frustration after watching the Mets play 2. 90 Wins and somehow get the Mets into playoffs this year 3. All 5 Starters have winning records this year 3a.Have team understand it is OK to get a hit with runners on base. 4. Mets win World Series (after divine intervention) | ||||
| PeterDragon | posted on 07-07-2002 @ 1:04 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: Yes, but it was in the american league that from around 1921 to 1964 the Yankees seemed to have the penant won by July. for example, from 1949-1964 the Yankees were in the WS 14 of 16 yrs. In the National league there were a couple of teams that won it. NL winners: 1940- Reds 1941 - Dodgers 1942 - Cardinals 1943 - Cardinals 1944 - Cardinals 1945 - Cubs 1946 - Cardinals 1947 - Dodgers 1948 Boston Braves 1949 Dodgers 1950 Phillies 1951 - Giants 1952 - Dodgers 1953 - Dodgers 1954 - Giants 1955- Dodgers 1956 - Dodgers 1957 - Milwalkee Braves 1958 - Braves 1959 - Dodgers. So, in the 40's & 50's, the following teams won the NL Penant. Dodgers, Cards, Giants, Reds, Cubs, Braves & even Phillies. 2002 Crack Committee Objectives: (modified version)(You gotta try and believe....) 1.Hate the Braves with PASSION and extreme prejudice 1a. Try and go a week without having to punch a wall in frustration after watching the Mets play 2. 90 Wins and somehow get the Mets into playoffs this year 3. All 5 Starters have winning records this year 3a.Have team understand it is OK to get a hit with runners on base. 4. Mets win World Series (after divine intervention) This message was edited by PeterDragon on 7-7-02 @ 1:07 PM | ||||
| JohnSlack
| posted on 07-07-2002 @ 4:44 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: May. 01 | quote: NO NO NO NO NO!! I can't stand dumbfucks (usually mets fans) or people like chris russo that pretend they know what they are talking about. ATTENDANCE IS THE SINGLE LARGEST CONTRIBUTOR OF REVENUE. The yankees had a payroll of about 112 last year and they grossed something like 125 million. 90 MILLION OF IT WAS GATE. JUST TICKETS. Not stadium advertising, consessions, or anything else. TICKET SALES. I can't stand these "small market/big market" preaching assholes who don't know what they are talking about. PHILADELPHIA IS THE 4TH LARGEST MEDIA MARKET. THEY COULD HAVE REVENUE STREAMS 100 MILLION + EASY. why don't they? because no TV exec or fan wants to pay money to see that awful team. BUSINESS RULE #1: YOU HAVE TO SPEND MONEY TO MAKE MONEY. its fans like you (and the media) that lets these owners off the hook. Look at colengelo, as much as I hate the fucker, he is doing it right - get some loans, get a good team together and it will pay dividends within a few years. Remember the 70's/80s when Atlanta and Seattle were the expos and d-rays? and people said they'll never be competitive, they don't have access to the revenue." Look at them now. Do I think there is a problem with baseball? I sure as hell do. Weaver and Mondesi are a great example - not of yankee overkill but of other owners ripping off their fans - you don't think there is another team that can afford two guys of their caliber for 5 mil a season each? Revenue sharing is fine, but it needs a floor. Alot of these owners make sure they stay below the poverty line so they can put the luxury tax money in their pockets - is it any coincidence that after revenue sharing last year, the brewers were the most profitable team? Selig must go. Do you see the NFL or NBA talking their leagues down? do they come out and say "your team will be bankrupt. They have no chance" what a way to get attendance up, bud. The NBA and NFL have many problems, but you don't hear david stern coming out and saying "we must get rid of the clippers" If you actually want to know something about baseball besides what tom seaver says during mets games (great pitcher, but what a fucking idiot) try picking up a bill james book. You'd learn some interesting things - baseball has gotten more competitive over the years, not less.  "Philly: It's Camden - with a bell." - Jim Norton This message was edited by JohnSlack on 7-7-02 @ 4:49 PM | ||||
| Officer Joe Friday | posted on 07-07-2002 @ 9:53 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: May. 01 | Hopefully I didn't miss out on this entire debate. First, I want to say that I've been a Yankee fan since I can remember. I remember the day that my favorite player, Graig Nettles went to the Padres. I remember the day that I went to Phil Rizzuto day and saw Tom Seaver get his 300th win. I also remember the day they drafted Brien Taylor with the first overall pick and thinking that he was going to be the guy who turned the team around (little did I know then that it would be the guy drafted a year later that would be a huge part of it). And of course, I remember where I was when Charlie Hayes caught a Mark Lemke popup to win the 1996 World Series, the first one they won that I could actually remember. The point being is that I've been there through the bad and good and actually know what I'm talking about. I have a few comments about some of the things mentioned in this thread. 1) The Yankees aren't a huge "part of the problem". The main "problem" is the system. The Yankees are using the system to their benefits, just like any other successful business would. They spend money, they make money, they spend more money, they make more money. It's that simple. If you look at the increase in players salaries recently you would see that the Yankees aren't the teams that get the pay scale all out of whack. That happens when the Dodgers pay an aging pitcher $105 million, when the Phillies are giving average at best mid-relievers about $3 million a year each, when the Colorado Rockies sell a pitcher on their "school system" while throwing him an ungodly amount of money, when the Texas Rangers throw $252 million at a single player. Those players getting those amounts of money spurs other players of similar or greater ability to demand equal or higher amounts of money. It even affects players of a lower caliber. All of the talk about Derek Jeter's contract and how awful that it is, can you argue that Jeter isn't at least 75% the player that Alex Rodriquez is? No, you can't. The Yankees have to pay based on what the market is giving other players. The Yankees very rarely set that market rate. 2) The Yankees farm system First off, just because the Yankees pay players that they developed market value to stay with the team, it doesn't make those players "bought". It's a testiment to the vast improvement of their scouting that resulted in those teams of the late 80s and early 90s. Ok, with that being said let me discuss the rest of this. The Yankees farm system for the most part the past few years has been pretty much overrated. They are able to take some of their prospects and through some overhype of the media turn them into better players. Hell, go back to 1995 when they traded Russ Davis and Hitchcock to the Mariners for Tino Martinez AND Jeff Nelson. Russ Davis was as overrated as they come. Here's another two words for you: Ruben Rivera. Keep that in mind, the next time the Yankees trade "prospects" away, or just look at John Ford Griffin's numbers this year at single A. They have come out poorly though on these trades in the past. Look at the Mike Stanley for Tony Armas Jr (and Jim Mecir) deal in 1997. And of course, who can forget the Chuck Knoblauch for Eric Milton, Christian Guzman, and Brian Buchanon debacle in 1998. However, on the flip side there was their deal of Hideki Irabu for Ted Lilly, Jake Westbrook, and Christian Parker. They turned Lilly and Westbrook into parts of trades for Jeff Weaver and David Justice. Not bad. As for how the Yankees are able to turn a known mid-level prospect into Raul Mondesi while the Red Sox a few years ago traded mulitiple decent prospects for Ed Sprague and Dante Bichette is baffling. And I'm not buying "money" as the sole reason. 3) The Yankees signing of "international" free agents To keep pointing to this as a sign of the Yankees being "smarter" than other teams isn't exactly the truth. A good number of players that they sign are known quantities. It's not as if Gene Michael goes into the streets of Panama and watches kids play stick ball. One of the exceptions being "the next Mickey Mantle" Ruben Rivera who the Yankees took a look at based on Mariano's recommendation. For every Orlando Hernandez and Alfonso Soriano, there is an Adrian Hernandez and Andy Morales. Yankees tradition and money help them land certain players, just like there are factors in the Dodgers and Mariners landing Japanese talent. The bottom line is that the Yankees for the most part use their money wisely and want to put a competitive team on the field. The fact that they are able to do this angers a good deal of fans. However, as was pointed out by some in this thread, there are teams out there who completely mismanage and just pocket the money they make. The Twins packed them in the Metrodome in the late 80s and early 90s when they winning. There is no reason why Carl Pohlad can't open his checkbook and try to make another investment in his team. The fact that they even compete shows how well Terry Ryan and the rest of his staff performed their duties. Would I like to see how Billy Beane did given a more balanced structure? Of course. Then again I always wondered how Glen Sather would do if he was given the reigns of a team that had more money available than the Oilers. We all saw how that transpired last season. I would like to see something done to lessen the competitive balance somewhat. A drastic overhaul hopefully doesn't happen. Throw in a little revenue sharing with a greater tax on salaries AND greater fiscal responsibility from the owners, and that could work. There is no "perfect" system out there but something should at least be attempted and they better not need a strike or lockout to accomplish it. ------------------- But there's also this: there are over 5,000 men in this city, who know that being a policeman is an endless, glamourless, thankless job that's gotta be done. I know it, too, and I'm damn glad to be one of them." | ||||
| PeterDragon | posted on 07-07-2002 @ 10:15 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: Well, there goes the detente. You threw around some nice numbers there (Gross of 125 mil and 90 mil from gate). Please tell me where they come from. Does this include the 40+ million from cable TV? or Addidas? (I am serious here. Please tell me where you found stats on finances) I don't have 2001 figures around (as you seem to), but ESPN valued the yankee 2002 payroll at the beginning of the season (ie before Mondesi & Weaver) at $147.08 million For the 2001 season, the Yankees made $56.75 million in local broadcasting revenue, according to the numbers released by Major League Baseball last Thursday for its hearings in front of the House Judiciary Committee. That's 2.5 times more than the major-league average for local broadcasting revenues. YES network allows Yankees to spend even more By Darren Rovell ESPN.com And while we're at it, cut the crap slack. every post you have you have to get personal with Mets fans. The conversation has been civil; please keep it that way. Yes, Bill James is an intelligent voice. He is only one voice, however. Take everything in perspective. No one that I know ever called the Phillies a "small market" You seem to want to know Yankee history, again, there is a built in fan base for 3 teams - Yankees, Dodgers, and Cardinals. All other teams start at a disadvantage as far as drawing fans, based on this history. Now Steinbrenner knew this when he bought the team, which again is fair. just don't tell me how the Pittsburgh Pirates can out-revenue the Yankees if they win. 2002 Crack Committee Objectives: (modified version)(You gotta try and believe....) 1.Hate the Braves with PASSION and extreme prejudice 1a. Try and go a week without having to punch a wall in frustration after watching the Mets play 2. 90 Wins and somehow get the Mets into playoffs this year 3. All 5 Starters have winning records this year 3a.Have team understand it is OK to get a hit with runners on base. 4. Mets win World Series (after divine intervention) This message was edited by PeterDragon on 7-7-02 @ 10:39 PM | ||||
| IrishAlkey Chucky Official OA.com Homo CUNT ROCKETTE Look who's laughing now, fuckers!!! Is It In Yet? JYD-4-LIFE [Sarcasm]Subzero316 fan since day one!!1!![/Sarcasm] "my mod powers are on temporary hiatus" This status is sponsored by: P®oJë©T M@¥hέm | posted on 07-07-2002 @ 10:16 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Aug. 01 | I was just reminded why I don't come in here.
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| JohnSlack | posted on 07-07-2002 @ 11:53 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: May. 01 | quote: Showing your ignorance once again. Quoting that piece of sensationalistic garbage from Darren Rovell. I actually know Darren, and I let him have it for that article. He added up the average of the long term contracts (meaningless) not what they are actually paying out. Before weaver and mondesi it was something like 124-128 million. Check this link out What part of gate only revenue do you not understand? See that little chart that says "other local revenue?" that is endorsement deals, consessions, etc. You say that certain teams have a built-in fanbase. That is true - but I remember when the yankees were awful - they weren't drawing 3 million a year in the 70-80s. And I certainly rememeber a twins team setting attendence records. The point is - if you put a playoff team on the field (not just for one season, for a couple) all your revenue streams can go up. so what about seattle? they made 37 mil last year in TV/Radio, third to the mets (46) and the yankees (56.7) Even though they are a much smaller media market. What do all three teams have in common? winning. As much as I despise the mets, they have been in the playoffs a bunch before last year, even making the WS in 2000. Thats how you create revenue. LA has a much smaller TV contract (27) even though they are the second largest market. It all has to do with winning, baby. Bud is trying to tell people money wins games - not always (see LA, Baltimore) But winning games ALWAYS MAKES MONEY. The arguement is made "why should the owner of the Royals spend money out of his own pocket to make his team better?" The answer is simple - he has to spend money to increase the value of his franchise. Yes, he makes 1/10 what the yankees do, but he paid 1/10 of the value of the yankees for the team. If he wants to make more money, increase the value of his franchise, IT COSTS MONEY. Why should he get a handout while people like john henry and steinbrenner had to pay top dollar for their franchises? "Philly: It's Camden - with a bell." - Jim Norton | ||||
| Hello! Hello! Diamond Dust! Hello! | posted on 07-08-2002 @ 6:35 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 01 | Mr. Slack, every time you post here, my IQ drops 10 points. Apparently you've never heard of the term "viscous cycle." If you can't spend now, you won't make the playoffs, and on and on the cycle goes. Why should the owner of the Royals spend $40 million over revenue to STILL have not even half the Yankees' payroll, meaning they STILL won't make the money up. Business ain't that simple when you're as low as they are. 1. 94 Wins and the NL East title 2. Hate the Braves with a passion. 3. All 5 Starters have winning records this year 4. Mets win the World Series | ||||
| PeterDragon | posted on 07-08-2002 @ 10:01 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: I will give you one more chance. If you want to have discussions, act like an adult or take it to junkyard. Every one of your god-damn posts you try to make it personal. I even gave you a little credit and asked for your sources, and you resort to infantile language. If you don't like Rovell, fine. If you think he is an idiot, fine. Just don't defame others for using sources if you haven't yet given any. quote: no, I've never said that teams should be allowed to pocket revenues and expect others to bail them out. Try and keep out of the personal, especially if you are wrong about what you think others are saying. If you want to discuss (or even argue) like an adult then I'll participate and respond. If you insist on treating everything like it is 4th grade recess, then I'll have to ignore you to keep my sanity. Here's a clue - if you have to use the words "dumbfuck" or "gay" in your post, your probably not acting your age. quote: Again, this isn't a pissing match. If I disagree with you and ask for your facts that is not an indictment on your manhood. I gave you numbers that don't match yours. I asked for yours. It is possible to give your rebutting evidence without personal attacks. -------------------------------------- Here is a last attempt at an intelligent conversation: quote: 2 separate arguments. Yes, there is usually a relationship between the quality of play and attendance, nor am I discounting ticket sales as a main source of revenue. My point there was that if the Dodgers and Pirates have equal records it is easier for the Dodgers to make money. It is impossible for the Minnesota twins to get the same TV/Cable deal as the Yankees. And the fanbase for the teams that I mentioned affect more than ticket sales. There is a greater disparity in TV and marketing. quote: Even using your example,(and numbers) the Yankees earned almost 20 million dollars more than the Mariners. And this wasn't related to performance. Therefore if all else is equal the Yankees can spend $20 million more per year. I've never disputed that Steinbrenner deserves to make more money because he has invested more. The question is what is good for baseball long term. Football for example, doesn't say that the Dallas Cowboys and Tampa Bay Buccaneers have to make the same profit. But they have decided that it is in everyone's best interest if they have the same chances of winning, and in their case it means limiting spending. If the teams spend wisely in football they still will be more successful than teams that spend poorly. Forget revenue sharing for a minute; would it be terrible if there was a maximum and minimum salary cap? 2002 Crack Committee Objectives: (modified version)(You gotta try and believe....) 1.Hate the Braves with PASSION and extreme prejudice 1a. Try and go a week without having to punch a wall in frustration after watching the Mets play 2. 90 Wins and somehow get the Mets into playoffs this year 3. All 5 Starters have winning records this year 3a.Have team understand it is OK to get a hit with runners on base. 4. Mets win World Series (after divine intervention) This message was edited by PeterDragon on 7-8-02 @ 10:10 PM | ||||
| PeterDragon | posted on 07-08-2002 @ 10:23 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: Absolutely. I have no problem with that statement. My point has been maybe it's time to change the system - not because it is the Yankees, but because any system where one team can spend $120+ million on salary and another can spend $30 million is doomed. And that doesn't even take into account money spent on scouting, minors, etc. quote: quote: These are not really separate arguments. The point is that a high revenue team can afford to sign a Drew Henson, a Brien Taylor, a Andy Morales and if they don't work out, still be able to afford to do it again. If the Royals sign a Brien Taylor, it decimates them economically. Maybe it will help Yankee fans if you understand this is not Anti-Yankee. The Yankees are just the poster boy for high revenue/high spending team. If it makes anyone feel better I will stipulate that the Yankees have become the premier organization since the mid 90's, and they make wise decisions most of the time. This is a debate about the need for a level playing field (or the lack of that need if you want to take that side). 2002 Crack Committee Objectives: (modified version)(You gotta try and believe....) 1.Hate the Braves with PASSION and extreme prejudice 1a. Try and go a week without having to punch a wall in frustration after watching the Mets play 2. 90 Wins and somehow get the Mets into playoffs this year 3. All 5 Starters have winning records this year 3a.Have team understand it is OK to get a hit with runners on base. 4. Mets win World Series (after divine intervention) | ||||
| TheJays This status sponsored by: P®oJë©T M@¥h?m: I MAKE COOL PICTURES Proud To Be An American | posted on 07-08-2002 @ 10:26 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: quote: I liked Lilly. | ||||
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