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 Displaying 1-25 of 30 messages in this thread. |
| Posted By | Discussion Topic: VISA'S, CELLS AND STATE SPONSORS! | ||||
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| ThatTerribleAwfulNegro | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 3:50 AM |    | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Oct. 00  | OK! I went to the state dept. website. apparently there are only 7 official countries declared to sponsor terrorism..I thought there was more. correct me if I'm wrong. BUT, there are many more that house major TERRORIST GROUPS. They Are, for example (States & Org.'s): Iran, Iraq, Syria, HAMAS, Hizbollah, PIJ, Al- Ghamas, etc etc.(those org's are housed ALL OVER the Arab World) OK...if you're in this country from ANY of those states that either sponsor terrorism or house terrorist groups.....OUT!!! OUT! OUT! OUT! All 4-5 MILLION of YOU. BASTARDS! If you're from: Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan...then IMMEDIATE deportation!!!!! for real. who agrees with me??? I mean seriously, I want to see a trail of tears as mothers,fathers,sons, daughters, all who are here on a VISA are Kicked OUT Immediately!!!! these fucking bastards are here in there terrorist CELLS providing an informational and financial network...OUT OUT OUT!!!!!!!!! No less than 2 Federal Air Marshalls on EVERY Flight..Domestic and International. Physical Rearrangement of CockPit design..as suggested elsewhere on THIS VERY Board..to only allow entry from the ground..providing a bathroom INSIDE the cockpit! A BROAD AND SUSTAINED CAMPAIGN OF BOMBING EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE GROUPS AND STATES UNTIL THEY ARE DESTROYED, DESTROYED, DESTROYED!!! To Sum Up: ROUND-UP AND DEPORTATION OF ALL PEOPLE IN THE US ON A VISA FROM A STATE THAT EITHER SPONSORS TERRORISM OR CONTAINS A SIGNIFICANT TERRORIST ORGANIZATION! SUSTAINED AND SEVERE BOMBING OF ALL THESE COUNTRIES!!!! (sorry to veer..I'm thinking about the poor people of Cantor & Fitzgerald- ALL- I repeat ALL of them have aparently been MURDERED in tuesday's attack) 2 FEDERAL AIR MARSHALLS ON EVERY FLIGHT FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC (MANDATED BY EXECUTIVE ORDER) A MAJOR CHANGE IN COCKPIT DESIGN MANDATED BY EXECUTIVE ORDER! (God. I'm listening to the CEO of Cantor & Fitzgerald and I'm crying NOW! - God Dammmmnn!!!!!!!!!) FUCK!!!! Edit: removing sigpic until I find a better one This message was edited by ThatTerribleAwfulNegro on 9-14-01 @ 9:25 AM | ||||
| Arpikarhu Harmless Teddy I wish Maynard was still posting here so I could implant my head up his ass. Needle dick, bear salesman. I think I'm a revolutionary. Actually, I'm a one trick pony. I enjoy C&BT | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 4:26 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Apr. 01 | quote: what if they are here because they disagree with there countries position and want to get away. you have been posting this hatred for days. i understand you are angry. we all are, we all want revenge. we all hate the people who did this and want them to suffer like nothing ever has before. but your need to kill, maim, and lash out blindly at anything that moves is irrational and dangerous. i wish that you could find some calm. i hope that you will find some calm. aim me dude and lets talk. i agree that people should die, but this is getting out of control. Arpi Karhu Kauppias Forever!!! AIM- Arpikarhu  | ||||
| crx girl Newbie! vg Y's me ugo girl Limey Mothercocker | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 4:45 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote:i was here on a visa, as was my mother, father, and sisters. now granted i'm not a citizen of a country that harbours terrorists, however, your complete indiscriminate hatred is not going to help anyone. i've seen your posts in several threads, and obviously you're having a hard time dealing with this, i think we all are. but the things you're saying, if carried out, would make you no better than them. now, i'm no stacy, as much as i hate war, and violence. even the gulf war i had big issues with, but this i think does need to be taken care of by military force. however, what you're proposing is something akin to the movie "the siege" have you seen that? is that really what you want? i've seen you criticize in other threads people who are going back to work, saying that we should all be going out and volunteering. well what the fuck can we do if they are turning volunteers away? 2 weeks from now, donate blood, that's when they'll need it. right now, there's not much you can do, i know it's frustrating, but the fact of the matter is, it's a (relatively) small area, there are magnitudes of medical and rescue workers on site, unless you're specifically qualified, you'll probably just be in the way. check the news, donate items that they need, such as dry clothing, food, etc... but don't go off on people who feel the need to go back to work and develop some kind of back to normal routine. after all, what do you really think the motive of these animal's was? if we all change our whole lives and cower in our homes, they win.  An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. --Victor Hugo regardless of my status, i am a nice person. no really, i am, i swear;) crack hitler belongs to me :) need me? try: [email protected] red rocket is under my supervision until 8/27 | ||||
| ThatTerribleAwfulNegro | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 8:59 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Oct. 00 | can I respond please..quote: ::extremely sincerely:: please...crxgirl...I NEVER, NEVER ONCE said that! Not ONCE! I'm at work now! what I said was "Fuck Normalcy!" The need to act as if this never happened and go back to 'business as usual'. We all have to work and I work everday! it's the impulse some people act on to insulate themselves from the terror and horror of what has happened/IS HAPPENING to us and thereby allow themselves the psychological relief required in order to be 'shocked' and 'appalled' when someone like myself realizes that drastic times require drastic measures. Not Nazi Regime measures. Not Assaulting Arab-AMERICANS. But please, please, please listen to at least this...THEY TRIED IT AGAIN.. Let me repeat... THEY TRIED IT AGAIN. They caught 11-12 people, arab, with KNIVES, FALSE ID's, Pilot's Licenses, and OPEN AIRLINE TICKETS FOR 9/11/01!!! My God what more do you need!? All I'm saying is that if you are NOT currently an American Citizen and you are from a country that either sponsors terrorism or harbors significant terrorist organizations..you have to GO. I'm sorry! The ACLU can sue us later...You have to GO! I'm sorry Arpi that I haven't lightened up. That you see me as irrational and filled with blind hatred. It's not hate at all. I just haven't insulated myself from the Reality and Horror of what's happening. LISTEN, I HAVE and I AM DEALING with this.. maybe not the way YOU would have me to...but I'm not breaking down, going crazy or standing still. I'm thinking of what should be done, I'm acting when I can act, I'm supporting our president, our mayor,the NYPD, EMS and NYFD. I'm sorry you don't approve.. BUT MY COUNTRY'S BEEN ATTACKED! AND WE ARE AT WAR!!! when you can see THAT, we can talk! and I'm sorry Crx that I offended You, I truly am. I can't, I won't refuse to change how I feel. War is UGLY. what did people think? that the revolutioner's said, "My God England..we won't stand for this!" ..and then slapped somebody? No, they KILLED every Englishman, Loyalist and out-and-out American traitor they could find until they won the country. THEN they killed every Native American they could find until they 'won' the west. Then They Chattel Enslaved, whipped, branded (and killed) every African they could find until they built the country. Now we all agree 2/3'rds of that was wrong. (most of us support the actual Revolution) but we ALL ACCEPT it don't we. we have built on it and improved on it and many have learned from past mistakes..other's haven't. and let me tell you something. I LOVE THIS FUCKING COUNTRY. The petty quarrels of this vast, dysfunctional family (e.g., black vs. white, etc) are on HOLD. We have a definite and REAL enemy. and many of them are living right next door to us. I saw the seige. I'm not advocating interrment of US citizens. I AM however advocating the immediate deportation of all Foreign Nationals who hail from states that sponsor or house terrorism or terrorists. and don't belittle my viewpoint as blind hatred, arp. It's a valid view. different from yours but nonetheless valid. Edit:Sorry it took me so long to change my sigpic! This message was edited by ThatTerribleAwfulNegro on 9-14-01 @ 9:20 AM | ||||
| av8er OA.com's taint with wings. | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 9:10 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote: I'm having a hard time taking your posts seriously with this at the bottom. At a time like this one would think you would change it temporarily.  av8er | ||||
| FoundryMusicJeff | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 9:17 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: Well I certainly don't. This coming from a black person, no less. Isn't it interesting that racism is all well and good when it doesn't apply to african americans. The majority of Arab people in this country are law-abiding citizens who carry jobs, raise families and interact with white/black/latino/asian people on a daily basis with courtesy and respect. I have MANY arab friends myself, most of them from Yemen. They are intelligent, fun-loving people with an ancient culture you couldn't possibly comprehend. Before you jump on the bandwagon of hatred, stop and think about what you are saying...then I want you to do a little research on the Black Civil Rights Movement, and tell me if you find any references to white people demanding the extradition of YOUR kind, you fucking idiot. Chief Engineer of the Starship Foundry. (NCC 1841-A) Visit FoundryMusic & Chat   | ||||
| ThatTerribleAwfulNegro | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 9:22 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Oct. 00 | quote: My GOD! You're Absolutely Right!! shit. I DID take my sigs out of the original thread on this disaster but I just included it in most of my other posts. Damn. I truly fucking apologize. You're absolutely right! | ||||
| av8er OA.com's taint with wings. | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 9:28 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote: What do you mean, HIS kind. I do believe sir we are ALL the same kind....HUMAN. av8er | ||||
| barch97 BBTB The barch gots lots a dick I kind of enjoy my anonymity on the board WOW Forum Ambassador | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 9:37 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Jul. 00 | It wasn't that long ago that a white guy from the mid-west blew up the Federal Bldg in Oklahoma City... Why don't we deport all the white males? mid-west / middle east: coincidence? I wonder... Maybe we need to build a wall.  Long Live the "Syndication Underground" | ||||
| ThatTerribleAwfulNegro | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 9:43 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Oct. 00 | You tell me ONE FUCKING TIME BLACK PEOPLE HAVE, EVER, EVER, EVER committed ACTS of TERRORISM on par with any of this!!!!! when black people do commit crimes. those same crimes are committed across the board to other black people, to whites, whomever. it's not race-based acts of violence. if a black person DOES commit race-based acts of violence against a group-like shooting up the LIRR, or anything else- then lock the bastard up, execute him- i won't defend a guilty person because he's black- so FUCK YOU. this was an act of violence specifically towards americans. Group-based violence. Racism against blacks was developed from a doctrine of White Supremacy used to Justify Institutions such as slavery, imperialism and colonialism. I never claimed superiority to arabs or that I wanted arab AMERICANS to be assaulted or deported. So FUCK YOU. If a Nigerian MadMan did this act, and there was a history of nigerian terrorism against the US, I would want ALL nigerians on VISA's- not NIGERIAN AMERICANS - those on VISA's deported as well. and I'm HALF NIGERIAN. so fuck you! Don't preach to me about racism, I live through it, I don't bitch about it. and I strive to live my life without hurting others except when they try to hurt me. who the fuck are you to preach to me about racism. | ||||
| FoundryMusicJeff | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 9:47 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: I wasn't insinuating they had. I was merely pointing out the double standard in an African American demanding the exile of Arab Americans unrelated criminally to this tragedy solely on the basis of thier race. It is even more ridiculous considering 30-40 years ago white American was demanding the exile of African Americans based on their race. quote: How do you justify the relocation of thousands of people based on the actions of an insane few? I can't believe what I'm hearing. Are you suggesting that if a handful of Arab people commit a heinous act, the rest of them are unfit to live in our country? When Japan attacked us, they horded thousands of Japanese into prison camps. It appalls me to think every time we go into war, we feel the need to punish the innocents within our borders because they share the same background. Chief Engineer of the Starship Foundry. (NCC 1841-A) Visit FoundryMusic & Chat | ||||
| FoundryMusicJeff | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 10:00 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: I used that word deliberately to make a point. He's forgetting that the Arab people on Visas here are just people too, trying to survive and make a better life for themselves by taking advantage of the opportunities America has for them. Right now its this us vs. them (Arabs) attitude, evident by the bloodlust and the prevalent use of towelhead/sandnigger. We don't even know who we are fighting. In fact, most of the Middle Eastern governments have formally denounced these acts. Negro just wants the arabs out of here, and that's just fucking wrong...I mean some of the countries on his extradition list are FRIENDLY nations/ALLIES for christ's sake. Chief Engineer of the Starship Foundry. (NCC 1841-A) Visit FoundryMusic & Chat | ||||
| barch97 BBTB The barch gots lots a dick I kind of enjoy my anonymity on the board WOW Forum Ambassador | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 10:01 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Jul. 00 | quote: So, way back in 1991, was it?, while blacks were burning down Los Angeles...they were out to get other blacks? Long Live the "Syndication Underground" | ||||
| FoundryMusicJeff | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 10:07 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR MIND? Are you saying there has NEVER been an incident of violence where black people beat up/killed white people because they were white? Give me the word, I will do the research. There are a LOT of black people who HATE white people. Do you even REMEMBER the Black Panthers? Read a book. Hatred, my friend, is found "across the board". Nobody is innocent. We have to STOP and figure out WHO is responsible and act accordingly. Chief Engineer of the Starship Foundry. (NCC 1841-A) Visit FoundryMusic & Chat | ||||
| JohnSlack
| posted on 09-14-2001 @ 10:08 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: May. 01 | Well Said Jeff. No matter how many we've lost personally, we must keep a clear head. TANegro - you said that we should send back all non-us-citizen arabs - one problem: My friend is arab. He is as american as apple pie. no problem under your plan, but guess what - his parents, good natured people here to live the american dream, are not citizens. Many forgeiners come here to start a new life, and for opportunites for their yet unborn children. When their children are born, they are US citizens, but the parents are still not. So you want to separate families, and punish parents for wanting a better life for their kids? | ||||
| BillAlfonso | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 10:10 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Sep. 01 | everybody chill out, okay. JUST CHILL OUT. | ||||
| Grumpy SAGILLID The Midget Message Board Mauler rides his trusty mount Wilbur once again!! Internet Idiots beware!! | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 10:15 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Dec. 00 | Negro - I'm appauled with your statements man. How the fuck can you generalize like that? Deport everyone from those countries living here? Have you thought about the fact that maybe these people are here because they want to get away from the very same element that everyone is condemning. Bro - I am a born and raised Muslim from Turkey. I've been in this country for over 30 years. I can tell you from my own religious education, no where in the Koran does it condone killing innocent people nor does it condone hatred. We are taught and brought up with the same values for human life and love for one another that Christians, Jews and every other religion believes in. We believe in the SAME GOD that everyone does. Allah is just the name by which we call him. He is not any different from the GOD you pray to. In our eyes it doesn't matter if your black, white, purple, green, Christian, Jew or Buddist. We are all brothers in eyes of God. Don't generalize a race or religion based on the stupidity and inhumanity of a misguided and delusional few. That would be the same to condemn all Germans for the Holocaust or all whites christians for the actions of the KKK. I am ABSOLUTELY sick and tired of people bashing Muslims and Arabs and put us all in one big basket to burn to hell because of this asshole Bin Laden. He does not represent the religion. He does not represent the people. He is a devil in his own right and we as a community condemn him. Mosques are being attacked and people are being harrassed because of their religious beliefs or their ethnic background. You condone this? I don't know what's worse. My anger for the act of terrorism or my anger towards assholes like you and every other fucking moron that associates everyone even remotely associated with a country or religion with the inhumanity that occurs. Instead of lashing out at people, how about you take a step back and ponder what your truly angry about. You wanna know where the Muslim community stands? We pray for the souls for those that died. We mourn with those that lost their love ones. We try to find solace in our thoughts and prayers. We offer our support to anyone that needs it. You let your anger talk for you. Search in your soul bro. Speak with your heart not with your anger. I am absolutely speechless right now.  September 11, 2001 In our hearts you will live forever! Rest in Peace my brothers and sisters. Rest in Peace! | ||||
| fuh-q-2 | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 10:15 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Nov. 00 | Jeff, I am not defending TTAN, but dude, chill a bit. I was born in America and to watch people that were allowed to come to this country to make a living, celebrate this attack is appalling. There are reasons why people come to this country and the freedom is one of them but when you celebrate an act of war against this country within our cities then those particular groups of people should be taken back to their country and told stay the fuck out. The people that are here illegally because they did not go back after their Visa runs out should be sent back. We cannot keep supporting the fucking world because it wants to take advantage of our generosity. This attack has struck the soul of this country and especially the soul of NYC. Again, i am by no stretch of the imagination supporting the deportation of all Arabs here on visasbut we do need to send a message to those that will take advantage of our generocity and use it against us. | ||||
| barch97 BBTB The barch gots lots a dick I kind of enjoy my anonymity on the board WOW Forum Ambassador | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 10:18 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Jul. 00 | quote:This may not be the best time to bring this up but... I'm not sure the KKK is all that thrilled with christians either. But, what do christians know about racism? Edit: When was the last time a black was thrown into an arena with lions purely for the amusement of the crowd? Long Live the "Syndication Underground" This message was edited by barch97 on 9-14-01 @ 10:23 AM | ||||
| FoundryMusicJeff | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 10:23 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | Lol, I don't think the KKK is thrilled about anybody. Chief Engineer of the Starship Foundry. (NCC 1841-A) Visit FoundryMusic & Chat | ||||
| ThatTerribleAwfulNegro | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 10:23 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Oct. 00 | alright, first of all, first of all...let me stop. breathe... ok. I want to apologize to you jeff, first of all. i didn't like the fact that you called me a fucking idiot..but hey, I'll shake it off. you won't remember, but I did meet you at the anniversary party in NJ..you introduced yourself and were very cool. I realize how i sound. i do. shit. but you..but you don't fully realize how I feel. we're all devastated. but damn, I mean BOTH FUCKING TOWERS! all those people CRUSHED. MY GOD! I used to work RIGHT THERE! I never, never, never advocated any violence or legal action against arab AMERICANS. i never disparaged their culture. black and arab culture is actually intertwined. I just want action taken to ensure that this never, never happens or can happen again. To all those arab americans, americans from diverse backgrounds or plain ol people who read many of my comments and have been offended. I'm sorry. NOT for offending you but for saying anthing that might tend to dehumanize and objectify a specific group of people. I'm going to take some time off the board. this thing has really gotten to me. I'm sorry that I can't "deal" with this as WELL as so many of you apparently can. ..ok that was a sarcastic potshot. :) but I really do need to sort things out. and for the rec, I never got to clarify it because the thread was locked: but in my 'Please Read' post - I NEVER advocated assault of arabs in america! I wanted the blood to flow from war campaigns waged by The US against Enemy Countries. and I don't even want that. I just want...I just want Revenge. to somehow honor and avenge the blood of the innocent people that was shed tuesday. peace. | ||||
| Kid Afrika | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 10:24 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Jan. 70 | When people speak of beating Arabs, and kicking them out of the country, I cringe. I do not in any way condone the actions of the terrorists that exist in the world. But, I can't find it with in me to persecute and entire race based on the actions of a few. While I understand the emotion behind this type of outcry, it is just not right. Knowing the feeling of being identified as a certain type of person based solely on your race would make any of you think differently about instantaneously deportin all Arab people. Would you then say, "only the ones that are on Visa or are not residents that were born here? Now is not the time for prejudice, now is the time to band together as a nation and stand up for what this country is all about... Exactly what that is, I'm not so sure. But, I know that this attack has brought me to realize something that I often forget. Underneath all of our shortcomings and prejudices, we stand as one in times of crisis. Let us not now revert to ways of the past. Ways of stomping out all that we do not understand. I feel that our government will systematically identify and prosecute the persons responsible for this terrorist attack. I also believe that those who have facilitated those same persons will be prosecuted much the same. It sucks that it took so many people being directly affected by terrorism for us to realize that this cannot happen in our world.
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| Grumpy SAGILLID The Midget Message Board Mauler rides his trusty mount Wilbur once again!! Internet Idiots beware!! | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 10:39 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Dec. 00 | quote: Fuhq2 - do you know when I heard that some people were celebrating in paterson, I almost went down there to turn vigilante? Do you know the anger that seethed my bones? And do you know why I didn't follow through? Because it's not right. Violence is not the answer. Those bastards in Paterson will get their just dues. In time. Trust me, they will. Let the goverment do it's job. For the time being there are more important things to worry about like saving the lives of people trapped. September 11, 2001 In our hearts you will live forever! Rest in Peace my brothers and sisters. Rest in Peace! | ||||
| ThatTerribleAwfulNegro | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 10:43 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Oct. 00 | quote: Jeff, I never said that blacks never commit hate crimes and you know it! read the next line, I said when they do- convict them and lock them up or execute them if the crime warrants it. I'll never defend a guilty black person because he's black! fuck that! I was speaking in generalities that black people who do commit crimes usually do the same dumb shit to everybody. not group specific. contrasted with terrorist acts which are group specific towards americans. I didn't mean nor did I imply that whites only commit crimes specifically against blacks and not vice-versa. there are many, many, many racist blacks you don't think I know that. and I know you THINK I'm racist. but i'm not. I have ALOT of rage you couldn't even possibly fathom and it's not just mindless rage- it's specific rage. when I saw 10,000 people murdered cruelly before my eyes. I've been raging. not talk-rage, from the deepest parts of my being rage. I'm quite literally sick with it. but you know what? i've never since then nor would i ever verbally or physically attack any middle easterner. i would however advocate government based action. War, etc. I would sign up and put my behind where my mouth is if needed. I'm really sorry for offending the entire board. I never said anything against other Americans, arab or otherwise. I did however speak against foreign nationals from countries that hate americans. is that all foreign nationals -of course not- not even the majority- but who knows. wartime is not the time to take chances. I don't know. and if you review my earlier posts from before all this, you would've seen me rage against idiots like THE BLACK HEBREW ISRAELITES who prance and scream in times square about how white people are devils and black people are the especially chosen race and how black people are superior. LUNACY! I never said ANY of that here. I condemned any black person who does something worth condemning whether it's racism or a criminal act - the same way I would any other person. Should I be condemned because I see that our (black,white,yellow,brown american (incl. arab-AMERICANS)) nation is under attack and I GRIEVE Horrendously for those who were Massacred! | ||||
| fuh-q-2 | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 10:43 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Nov. 00 | quote: That line reminded me of a quote from a movie, I do not remember the name but it was about a volcano in LA with Anne Heche and Harrison Ford i think. The scene: it was all over and a small kid looked at all the people covered in ash and there was no color, no race no way to distinguish anyone from the next because they are covered in ash. The kid says something like, "look, we are all the same." That is the point, do not hate because of race or religion or whatever but hate the people that did this, hate the peole that facilitated it, hate the people tha that harbor the people that did this, and hate the people that celebrate this where ever they are. GOD BLESS AMERICA and the men and women helping. EDIT: Grumpy, i did not say to commit violence against ANYONE. This message was edited by fuh-q-2 on 9-14-01 @ 10:51 AM | ||||
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