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Displaying 1-15 of 15 messages in this thread. |
| Posted By | Discussion Topic: WWF is Nitro | ||||
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| Sir Okonkwo | posted on 11-16-2001 @ 9:46 PM |    | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01  | Well, they've got the whole internet buzzing. A worked-shoot promo on Smackdown, the promise of a "new direction", rumors of Jerry Lawler's return, and rumors of the return of Ric Flair have all the markboys and "smarts" rubbing their helmets in anticipation of a return to glory for the WWF. But haven't we seen this all before? The simple fact is, playng to the net crowd is bad business. Did you notice that during Heyman's big speech, the fans in the arena were bored to death until Tazz put an end to their suffering. The vast majority of wrestling fans don't follow internet rumors and don't care about Vince McMahon's past. To most people ECW was a low budget promotion that went under, and Paul Heyman is nothing but an annoying annoncer. Smart fans are a small but vocal minority who will watch anyway, it's the more casual fans that need to be appeased. Judging by the reaction on Smackdown, they're still not impressed. Much like WCW Nitro, circa April 2000...  "My political opinions lean more towards anarchy....The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men."-J.R.R. Tolkien, The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 1981 "Shit, Piss, Fuck, Cunt, Cocksucker, Motherfucker and Tits"-George Carlin "Now you listen here to me, you horrible little creature"-William Regal to X-Pac | ||||
| rageparty 123...Not so bare anymore since I got a number underneath my name again I also have an imaginary girlfriend. | posted on 11-16-2001 @ 10:09 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Aug. 01 | Yeah, I noticed the crowd was quiet during the Heyman segment. I for one, was very interested and liked it alot. I agree the common fan knows horse shit about wrestling. Most new fans don't know who Ric Flair was, and when Sgt. Slaughter was on SmackDown once, they never even knew he wrestled. I feel sorry for them because they are actually enjoying the shit we are seeing now when they could have been seeing unbelievable matches that was saw in the 80's and early 90's. This message was edited by rageparty on 11-16-01 @ 10:15 PM | ||||
| matilda | posted on 11-17-2001 @ 6:41 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Apr. 01 | quote: i totally get what you mean. I'm one of those new fans and i'm really enjoying whats on now, but my friend has been watching since she was 6 (14 now) and has stopped watching now because she said its shit. I've been trying to watch as much old stuff as i can, and i think i'm beginning to agree with her (and you guys)...the old stuff was so much better. I got some old WCW videos, mostly Flair and Sting (2 of my favourites when I was watching WCW a couple of years ago) and to be honest, i had no idea Sting used to wear coloured makeup and tights instead of the black and white i was used to seeing him in. lol, of course I know who Ric Flair is but you're right about that too..one of my friends who watches had absolutly no idea. thats just sad. my website "WELL, IT'S ONE LOUDER, ISN'T IT? IT'S NOT TEN" (the artist formerly known as edge) **Official Good Will Embassador from England** | ||||
| Cluster F | posted on 11-17-2001 @ 10:30 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote: If thats the case, then someone explain to me why all the fans yell out "WOOOO" when anyone does a knife edge chop. Personally, i was extremely interested during that interview with Paul E. and thought it was good for wrestling. Fan of the Giants and the Rangers. Hater of the rest of the NFC East and the Devils. | ||||
| Hello! Hello! Diamond Dust! Hello! | posted on 11-17-2001 @ 11:09 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 01 | I think we should call you Sir Hypocrite. I dont wanna get mean here, but for the love of fucking Christ, you are the same guy who said you would do the following if you booked the WWF in your "Booking 101- Ending the WWF Implosion" post:quote: quote: quote: I got a million more too. You basically want to do the same thing, have things that will fly over people's head, the way you put it. I disagree. I think that these ideas, even yours, are good, and besides, I think the crowd was silent during the interview cuz it was so fucking intense. Did you see the crowd pop aftyer Tazz choked Heyman out? I think it was cuz they hated Heyman so much after the interview. They popped huge for Vince saying, "You choked just like the Alliance!" THEY WERE INTO IT, DAMMIT! During the interview they stayed silent, though, cuz it was such an emotionally intense interview done by a heel, though. The crowd loved it, and they'll love Flair coming back if its true, trust me. But, Jesus Fucking Christ, Sir, you are such a hypocrite and you keep on showing, and maybe I'm the only guy who's picked up on it, that you just fucking love to complain about wrestling no matter what. You are Scott Keith Jr. Learn to like the show a little bit, or at least learn not to put your foot in your mouth like you just did. HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLO! This message was edited by Hello! Hello! Diamond Dust! Hello! on 11-17-01 @ 11:21 AM | ||||
| Cluster F | posted on 11-17-2001 @ 11:26 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | Did i say something??? This message was edited by Cluster F on 11-17-01 @ 4:35 PM | ||||
| Officer Joe Friday | posted on 11-17-2001 @ 1:12 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: May. 01 | I don't think you can really say he's hypocritical here. All you did Diamond Dust was take a few passages from a previous post and just leave them there, not explaining why they would "fly over everyone's head". So I'll try and do that for you. 1) Signing Ric Flair - Riiiighht, signing Ric Flair would fly over people's heads. 2) The McMahon promo - that is a little inside but not as much as the Heyman promo. Also, it helps to explain the upcoming Vince change in direction. Let me say though that as I said in that thread, I'm not too fond of Vince playing this part here. 3) The showing of classic matches - How would the showing of classic matches fly over people's heads? That's like saying that ESPN Classic showing Game 6 of the 86 Series would fly over the heads of young fans today. A classic game is a classic game. The same holds true in wrestling. He is choosing to show these matches to get fans prepared for his brand of wrestling. Personally, I think that format would need a bit of a touching up since it might be pretty bland, but that's just me. Hardly a case for calling him a hypocrite. Now onto the Heyman promo. Was it pretty "inside"? Yeah. Sir is right, a lot of people don't really understand the history or for that matter know the names Don Owen, Sam Mushnick, or even Jim Crockett (speaking of which, someone really really has to bring back David Crockett to commentate). And for that matter aren't too familiar with ECW. However, this promo was necessary. A little late, but still necessary. It put some emotion into this angle, something that's been lacking since the last two weeks before Invasion. The problem with Russo and playing to the "smarts" was that his whole company was based around that. Once in a while, you can get a little inside and the fans will eat it up (look at Waltman's comeback to RAW the day after Wrestlemania 14 in 98, when he shot all over Bischoff and Hogan and the crowd was buzzing). This was one of those cases. This gave reason for Heyman to be angry at Vince and want to end him. Vince's kids want to do to him what he did to his father. It helps give the whole Alliance purpose. Too little too late but maybe it can spur some last minute PPV buys. As for if the crowd was into it or not, I have no idea. Personally, if I was there I would pop until the ending since I would be too engrossed in the promo, but that's just me. They did pop huge for Taz at the end though. So some of that was probably due to the promo but who really knows. We'll just have to wait and see where they go with this. ------------------- But there's also this: there are over 5,000 men in this city, who know that being a policeman is an endless, glamourless, thankless job that's gotta be done. I know it, too, and I'm damn glad to be one of them." | ||||
Nay. We are but men. ROCK. The man with the plan. | posted on 11-17-2001 @ 1:16 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | Sir O isn't a hypocrite. This post is reality. The booking thread is the "net crowd" perspective. And he did say in that thread that he knows it's all just a fantasy - why? Cause booking for the net crowd is bad business. At least that's what I got out of all this. Oh, and... quote: There's always gonna be an overlap into fans that KNOW why they're WHOOing. Fans who don't know why they're WHOOing, WHOO anyway, cause they think it must be some cool "smart" thing that they can get in on. As it goes on, there are less people who know why to WHOO and more who just WHOO for the hell of it. That's why people WHOO in ANY match nowadays, not just Flair matches anymore. They have no fucking clue what it was for.  "Miracles and lucky charms made the girl of my dreams the girl in my arms." - Dr. Frank Noellevious.... she's made me so proud. Viddy well, little brother... err, sister. | ||||
| Sir Okonkwo | posted on 11-17-2001 @ 2:39 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | Ah geez, I just knew someone would misinterpret what I said and play the hypocrite card. Officer Joe Friday, FTL, and rageparty to a lesser extent all got it, but just for you, Mr. Dust, an explaination... All I was doing was pointing out the fact that booking to net fans is a bad idea, and an idea that failed in the past. While I was interested in, and somewhat excited for Paul Heyman's speech, the general population of wrestling fans seemed to meet it with indifference and lack of enthusiasm. And why is that? Because they see Heyman as an obnoxious commentator who once ran a rinky-dink promotion into the ground, trying to cut a heel promo on someone they really don't like to begin with, and talking about people they've either never heard of or have long since forgotten about. If there were some sort of build to this moment, a connection established with the fans, it could have been successful; instead, we got the equivalent of a whiny brat son airing his tyrannical daddy's dirty laundry in public for all to see, before the angry bystander gets fed up and puts an end to it. Very few care about the whiny brat, and very few like or symphathize with the overbearing prick poppa. So the only real hero in the situation was Tazz the bystander, putting an end to this shameful public display. On the subject of Ric Flair, I still say they should sign him. I never meant that today's fans don't know him or don't recognize him, because I think most of them do. What I was saying, and obviously in my haste did not make very clear, is that sending out rumors to various internet sites with the purpose of drawing interest for the Survivor Series and the following Raw is counterproductive. It's called working the net, it didn't work then for Russo and Bischoff, and it won't work now, because the people who read these rumors would watch the shows anyway. If they were serious about getting Flair, they would have done so already. Do you think Time Warner doesn't want to buy out his contract for pennies on the dollar? Of course they do, and had Vince made any serious attempt at negotiations, a deal would have been sealed a long time ago. But now they're in panic mode, desperate to find something, anything, to try and get more buys and ratings. Unfortunately, they're looking in the wrong places. So call me a hypocrite if you will, I've been called worse before, but instead of looking at things at the surface from your subjective viewpoint, at least try to step back and look a little bit deeper. The truth may be somewhere in between, but I never claimed to always be right. I just call things as I see them... "My political opinions lean more towards anarchy....The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men."-J.R.R. Tolkien, The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 1981 "Shit, Piss, Fuck, Cunt, Cocksucker, Motherfucker and Tits"-George Carlin "Now you listen here to me, you horrible little creature"-William Regal to X-Pac | ||||
| Hello! Hello! Diamond Dust! Hello! | posted on 11-17-2001 @ 4:09 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 01 | Okokokok. Sorry if I went overboard, it just did seem weird to me. Still, there are a few questions I feel should be answered my dear old friend: If booking to the net fans is a bad idea, then what was the point of your Booking 101 post? I was under the impression you were trying to help the WWF. How do you know the WWF intentionally spilled out these rumores to the net? Some people just can't keep their mouth shut, so what makes you think it wasnt an overzealous WWF employee thinking it would help the company to let the info out, while Vince didn't necessarily want that to be the case? I still disagree with you on the Heyman promo, I think the crowd WAS into it, only in a different sense than how we are used to seeing them react. That wasn't a question, was it? HEY, THERE'S YOUR QUESTION! And Joe Friday: I was saying that those things were "over the fans' heads" under Sir O's strict guidelines I felt he drew in the first post by saying Flair is over people's heads. If Flair is over their heads, then a Funk/Flair match is DEFINITELY over their heads, cuz they're not used to that 80s style of wrestling and might flip the channel, if we are to follow what I thought Sir O's logic was. I personally, as I stated in my first post, thought that alot of Sir O's ideas were good, and that was one of them, though I think that kind of stuff should be saved for Excess and not a Raw or Smackdown. In closing, I don't think catering to the net is a bad idea if you dont go overboard. So far, the WWF hasn't crossed the line and made EVERYTHING a "SHOOT" like Russo did in WCW. But, we'll see if they eventually do. For now, the product has been enjoyable the last week is all I can say. And don't take it too hard, Sir O. I'm a tool anyway ;) HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLO! This message was edited by Hello! Hello! Diamond Dust! Hello! on 11-17-01 @ 4:22 PM | ||||
| rageparty 123...Not so bare anymore since I got a number underneath my name again I also have an imaginary girlfriend. | posted on 11-17-2001 @ 11:14 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Aug. 01 | quote: I got it, oh yeeeeeeeah! :) | ||||
| Vapour | posted on 11-19-2001 @ 10:42 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Aug. 01 | quote: I think that is why its called Fantasy Booking! Can you smell it? | ||||
| Sir Okonkwo | posted on 11-20-2001 @ 1:50 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | Nothing new here, but whatever...quote: Booking to wrestling fans and booking to net fans are two totally different things, my friend. Not all wrestling fans read the net, and not all net fans like the wrestling. I was trying to appease both wrestling and sports-entertainment fans, while making logical sense of the invasion. quote: The point is moot now, but call it an educated hunch.:) quote: Aah, the elusive apathy heat. Now I understand... quote: We all are. But don't think I took anything hard, I just enjoy a little debate with a fellow tool.:) "My political opinions lean more towards anarchy....The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men."-J.R.R. Tolkien, The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 1981 "Shit, Piss, Fuck, Cunt, Cocksucker, Motherfucker and Tits"-George Carlin "Now you listen here to me, you horrible little creature"-William Regal to X-Pac | ||||
| Hello! Hello! Diamond Dust! Hello! | posted on 11-20-2001 @ 5:53 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 01 | I believe hammersavage posted this somewhere else, but I had to get this, from 1wrestling.com, on this thread to prove a point:quote: Is it still dumb to cater to the net? Granted, they must ride the momentum, but clearly, the net fans helped this rating big time, Ric Flair ISNT over people's heads and even a mark can be pumped by a show like last night. HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLO! | ||||
| Sir Okonkwo | posted on 11-20-2001 @ 6:55 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | Leave it to Dave Scherer to pimp the power of the internet, considering since his print version of The Lariat couldn't compete with Meltzer's Obsever and Keller's Torch, he depends on the internet to pay his bills. Funny also is how earlier today, fellow big-head Bob Ryder went on a foolish diatribe against Meltzer and his site. Things must not be looking good for 1popup.con... I'd attribute the ratings boost more to people tuning in to see the aftermath of Survivor Series and the Alliance blowoff (biggest night in WWF history, etc.), and less to internet rumors. If the net were so important, why was the upper section in Charlotte empty for Flair's big return? "My political opinions lean more towards anarchy....The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men."-J.R.R. Tolkien, The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 1981 "Shit, Piss, Fuck, Cunt, Cocksucker, Motherfucker and Tits"-George Carlin "Now you listen here to me, you horrible little creature"-William Regal to X-Pac | ||||
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