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| Posted By | Discussion Topic: The Split - What's the point? | ||||
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| TeenWeek what's a status? | posted on 04-26-2002 @ 7:51 AM |    | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00  | The point of the split in storyline was because Ric Flair and Vince McMahon were unable to work together. They were suppossed to be 2 totally different shows. Raw was going to be more about the wrestling and Smackdown was going to be more about the entertainment side. Look what you have, on Raw, the main storylines, are the Undertaker, Steve Austin, Ric Flair, the NWO. To a slightly lesser extent RVD and Eddie Guerrero who would have gotten the same amount of tv time with or without the split. You also have Brock Lesnar who would have been pushed regardless of the split or not. Kane was going to get a push but he is injured for a while. Shawn Stasiak is awful. Mr. Perfect is the perfect jobber. Big SHow is getting his now 10th push. He has turned face or heel as many times as Lex Luger has. Bradshaw is now getting a push but does anyone care. The hardy's an awesome tag team get absolutely crushed on consecutive nights by Brockberg. Besides now you have the main stars showing up on the other show, ala HHH on Raw and Undertaker on Smackdown. Yes it is for the match at the PPV, but I thought Raw guys would only fight Smackdown guys at Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Survivor Series, and Summerslam or that is only for the midcarders. I guess the main eventers will continue to wrestle each other regardless of whatever show they are on. My main point is in regards to Ric Flair. He had a huge conflict with Vince McMahon. He was the face owner. he was going to bring back wrestling into the WWF. he was going to promote the young guys. Now he is turning heel and aligning himself with the NWO. I thought the NWO was a cancer. If both Vince and Flair are heel owners and both hate Austin, what is the point of the split? The only leader of the NWO should be Eric Bischoff and Steiner, Jarrett and the Franchise should be in the NWO.  | ||||
| burning in a lake of fire | posted on 04-26-2002 @ 10:18 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Mar. 02 | fuck yeah man, i definitely agree but i have one problem.. to call lesnar brockberg is unfair to lesnar. golberg is a peice of shit no talent motherfucker who sucks his uncles cock. brock has a HUGE repetiore of moves unlike goldberg whos whole arsenal consisted of punch(stiff), punch(bad timing), kick(stiff), spear, and jackhammer goldberg sucks balls, lesnar is the man. jumping topics here, i really hope that ric flair doesnt join up with the nwo that would be pretty fuckin lame. heel owners on each show, thats stale when it comes to weight loss, subway sandwiches go hand in hand with AIDES | ||||
| TeenWeek what's a status? | posted on 04-26-2002 @ 10:33 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | Burning what I meant by that is WWF is building up Brock Lesnar the same way as WCW did Goldberg with absolutely destroying people. I like it and I agree Lesnar is more talented. He also has Heyman as his agent/manager so that can only help him. It is getting so obvious that they are turning Flair heel. Otherwise who else is Austin going to face. Some people might say Lesnar, I say no. Build him up as a monster. Don't squash his push before it even starts. Let Lesnar destroy everyone he faces until Rhyno comes back and that can be Lesnars first legitimate threat. They have lots of jobbers, like Rikishi, Crash Holly, Justin Credible, Tommy Dreamer, Raven, Mr. Perfect, Hardy Boyz, etc to keep Lesnar busy. Turning Flair heel kills the storyline between Flair and Vince than because they both love the NWO and both hate Austin. This message was edited by TeenWeek on 4-26-02 @ 10:40 AM | ||||
| I swear it was this big Tussle King | posted on 04-26-2002 @ 10:45 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Mar. 01 | Yea, Lesnar is a monster, but with lots more skill than Goldberg. From what I've heard, Lesnar can do an amazing shooting star press, which is unreal for a man his size. He has some major potential and will be holding the Championship belt before he retires. ___________________________________________________________________ I'm bigger than the Devil combined with Schindler's list. | ||||
| goatweed I've Got A Vagina With Teeth. G.O.O.F.B.A.H.G.S. Dragoon Battalion My friends call me Weed | posted on 04-26-2002 @ 10:46 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | The only way I saw that "the split" would be successful was to make the Flair show seem less like the McMahon show - in other words, RAW should have a different look and feel CONTENT-WISE (not just a new intro song and a stage set-up). This way it would seem like a credible spilt. So far, the two shows look exactly the same, and that's not including the crossover run-ins. Again, I did say at some point that I expected this angle to go exactly the same way the Invasion angle did - the way that should've been done was to have the ECW/WCW stars come in and be like they were in their respective feds - and NOT WWF-icised. Tazz is a perfect example, as is DDP. And though I have said it before, I will say it again - the fact that the WWF has basically no competition (the WWA seems to be the only other "threat", for lack of a better term) is the main reason why the storylines and angles have sucked ass. The writers don't seem to know their ass from their elbows, and the wrong guys are getting the push (Big Slow - enough already. I don't care if Hogan really lobbied for it or not). If they don't fix these problems soon, I think they're facing some really tough times ahead in the months to come.  You can reach me through AIM or email. Feel free to contact me if you have any board questions, techie (PC) questions, or even if you just wanna chat and be bestest of friends.
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| TeenWeek what's a status? | posted on 04-26-2002 @ 10:50 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | INDEED! This message was edited by TeenWeek on 4-26-02 @ 11:07 AM | ||||
| nobones | posted on 04-26-2002 @ 12:34 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Apr. 02 | Being able to do a shooting start press doesn't take that much skill. Sure you have to be somewhat athletic but more importantly you better be absolutely insane. And they don't even let Billy Kidman connect on his Shooting Star Press so I don't imagine they'll let Lesner do it or he won't be allowed to use it for anything. As for having in-ring skill, gimme a break since when does the WWF really care whether you have in-ring skill? Look who's the top draw right now, a 50 year old wannabe surfer with leather for skin. I don't know if you guys have seen any OVW, but if you have you know that Lesner is hardly ready to wrestle real main event matches. Squash matches and run-ins for now... "Cheering for Hogan is letting the terrorists win." This message was edited by nobones on 4-26-02 @ 1:45 PM | ||||
| nobones | posted on 04-26-2002 @ 12:41 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Apr. 02 | The point of the split was the following: 1) To create the illusion of competition. It's too early to judge whether this is successful or not. 2) To give the mainstays a bit of a break by making them only have to work one tv show per week and hence not having to pay the wrestlers as much since the vast majority of them work on incentive based contracts. In return, more of the developmental talent and talent left on the backburner will be given more of a chance to blossom since more tv time will be dedicated to them. 3) By doubling the number of house shows, they would concievably double their house show revenue. They plan on eventually implementing more PPVs in the future depending on how successful the split angle turns out. Add to this the fact that they increased the price per PPV. I don't think they have really failed on any of these points so far, although I don't think they have succeeded at anything in particular either. I think Vince's ego won't let him give up on the nWo angle since it was his idea to bring back the angle even though everyone in the WWF protested it (except for HHH). Expect this angle to be recieve a major push in the next few weeks. BTW, SMACKDOWN was supposed to be the show that exhibited more of a wrestling content while RAW was supposed to be more of a Sports Entertainment style show. The reason for this is because since Smackdown falls under FCC regulation and is heavily monitored by conservative groups like the PTC that it would be harder to make it into the sports entertainment/variety show that Vince likes. The original plan was to give the Cruiserweights a major push on Smackdown since it would be more of a wrestling show, but so far all I have seen is them piss all over the Cruiserweight title. What else is new? "Cheering for Hogan is letting the terrorists win." This message was edited by nobones on 4-26-02 @ 12:56 PM | ||||
| JackDan1974 | posted on 04-26-2002 @ 3:03 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jul. 01 | quote: What they should do is go back to one show, and just build somethings back. I for one would like to see a new horsemen stable, and since it is bound to happend might as well brink back DX, and have then fight with a new and improved NWO with the addition of Steiner, Austin, and some of the other WCW boys. Let Vinne Mac lead them the way he did the corperation. I don't anything would be better then the bullshit we have been seeing here lately.  | ||||
| rageparty 123...Not so bare anymore since I got a number underneath my name again I also have an imaginary girlfriend. | posted on 04-26-2002 @ 5:27 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Aug. 01 | The point of the split is to make room for new guys, and so they don't have the roster fil.led with main eventers. This split sucks so far, but what can you do? Vince made a mistake by buying WCW... | ||||
| nobones | posted on 04-26-2002 @ 6:42 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Apr. 02 | quote: I think the point is to do a "hard" launch of the Invasion angle this time as opposed to what Vince called a "soft" launch during the Alliance angle. This is why Vince brought in Flair, Nash, Hall, Hogan and was throwing offers to Goldberg and Bischoff and by all indications will be bringing in Steiner. Now the main storyline reason Vince brought in the nWo was to "destroy" the WWF. The main logistical and booking reason was to use them as heels since the WWF is sorely in need of credible heels which is entirely their own fault. Now the WWF feels that they can more or less redo the Invasion angle with all the top players (minus Goldberg and Bischoff) and not actually use the WCW name which Vince feels is dead. Storyline-wise, Flair will reveal that it was his whole plan all along to destroy the WWF when he bought out Stephanie and Shane's stock. Vince is supposed to then act like the face in peril which will lead to a series of feuds which should lead to them furthering the brand split. The goal is to ultimately be able to have a PPV each week for each show, just like things used to be during the WCW and WWF wars, and to have the shows interact very little with each other except for the annual SuperBowl-like show (probably would be Mania) when the two brands clash with each other. As for buying WCW being a waste of money, I say that buying WCW was totally worth it since they bought it for pennies on the dollar ($2.5 mil for the whole thing including name, tape library, nWo name, most of the undercard wrestler contracts, rings, lighting equipment, etc.). The tape library alone which includes all those years of NWA and UWF footage, was worth $2.5 million. "Cheering for Hogan is letting the terrorists win." This message was edited by nobones on 4-26-02 @ 7:43 PM | ||||
| krahzee | posted on 04-26-2002 @ 11:57 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Mar. 02 | Personally I would love to see Heyman revealed as the brains behind the NWO. Think about Lesnar entering the NWO with the newly arrived Scott Stiener. Stiener still has foot problems, so why not make the two of them into an unstoppable tag team? Lesnar gets over based on Stiener's reputation as a monster, as well as his own size, and Stiener doesn't have to wrestle full matches. Plus Heyman playing off Vince and Flair would be more believable than the two of them vs. Austin. It would also give the NWO the story line reason to be feared, which the current group does not. Say what you will, but when Hall and Nash invaded WCW they were two huge monsters who destroyed all in thier path. That was a part of the reason the NWO was a success. Why not follow the Formula with Brock and Stiener? Sure, Brock wrestles a little less, but when he eventually breaks up with Stiener he will be more believable as a main event talent, not as rookie who has alot of skill, but makes alot of mistakes ( see: Maven, Randy Orton, ect...)Have them destroy everyone in thier path to the titles till the division is rebuilt enough to take them off them. That will also give the titles more credibility than having Billy and Chuck hold them. | ||||
| nobones | posted on 04-27-2002 @ 4:51 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Apr. 02 | krazhee your idea does sound better, but I think Vince is trying to get back that 2.0 rated audience that used to watch WCW that hasn't migrated to the WWF at all as evidenced by the WWF's ratings declne from a year ago today. Flair is a much better figurehead for this role than Heyman since Heyman's ECW audience pretty much watches WWF anyway and always has. "Cheering for Hogan is letting the terrorists win." | ||||
| Signguy Anyone want advanced screening tickets to Halloween 57? I didn't think so. | posted on 04-27-2002 @ 10:02 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jan. 02 | It'll come together one day. This message was edited by Signguy on 4-27-02 @ 10:04 PM | ||||
| krahzee | posted on 04-28-2002 @ 1:52 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Mar. 02 | nobones said:quote: That may be true, but putting Flair in charge of the NWO puts a huge storyline gap in the product. Think about this. Flair bought Steph and Shane's shares cause he was betting on the invasion to fail. Vince said he bought the NWO in to be poison to the WWF. To kill it. Why would Flair buy half the company to destroy it? As far as gaining back the viewers who used to watch WCW in the end goes, good technical wrestling will do that, not storylines. I used to watch both till WCW was bought. I can tell you this: I didn't watch WCW for the storylines in the end. I watched it to see good technical wrestling from guys like Kidman, Storm, and the rest of the crusierwieghts. The storylines had holes you could drive a bus through. But, the technical side was still entertaining. Also, consider the fact that Vince bought half the wrestlers out in WCW and the addition of Stiener and you really can't say this storyline will do it. If they don't tune in to see Stiener they won't tune in reguardless. If Vince wants to get back the key WCW demo he would have to: 1) Make Booker a main event face- the guy was very over with the loyal WCW viewers in the end. 2) Put more WCW guys in solid long running Fueds: Who else From WCW,aside from Hogan, has gotten a huge push from the WWF? The only other guy that they have pushed nearly as hard in the last 12 months is RVD and many WCW fans never saw him wrestle. 3) bring back the Cruiserwieghts. That was WCW's saving grace in the end. The only real reason to watch(with the exception of a Jarrett-Booker matchup). Not only bring them back, but give them strong longterm programs. Not one shot matches. | ||||
| Signguy Anyone want advanced screening tickets to Halloween 57? I didn't think so. | posted on 04-28-2002 @ 4:36 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jan. 02 | quote: Those guys are for Metal. | ||||
| nobones | posted on 04-29-2002 @ 12:13 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Apr. 02 | quote: Well I don't think his motivation is destruction of the company, just destruction of the WWF name. Vince originally was willing to use name WCW as the rallying point for the Invasion angle but since last summer has decided that the name WCW is 'dead'. So he took the next thing most closely associated with WCW for this new Invasion launch- a name that, at one time anyway, had a huge fanbase and that was the nWo name. Sure it would make more sense to have Flair lead the WCW name from the beginning in the WWF invasion, but WWF dropped the ball on all that so I guess they are going to still try to make this thing work with the nWo name. quote: I don't know about that. I just don't think that the heart of the WCW audience cared so much for great wrestling or even good storylines, they just tuned into WCW because they grew up with it. It was part of their history and they identified with the WCW history since it was synonymous with the NWA history they watched as children. It was the only historical alternative to the WWF with a history equally as deep and rich in memories and nostalgia. When that died, I think some of the fans tuned in to see what Vince was going to do with the WCW name (since the ratings briefly spiked after the buyout) and they didn't like what they saw since they could tell that Vince was just going to piss all over the WCW name and book it to look inferior to the WWF. So these fans just changed the channel and apparently no longer watch any wrestling since that demo seems to have just disappeared or dispersed into insignificantly small groups across the tv dial. quote: Me too, but I don't think we make up the major WCW fanbase demographic - afterall we are watching WWF now while the key WCW fanbase isn't. If I remember correctly the Nitro undercards never really drew great ratings (except a few exceptions with Mysterio) which is probably why after a few years they started to ignore the Cruiserweight division all together. I agree it was one of the great things that WCW had developed in its hot period that distinguished it from the WWF, but to say that great cruiserweight wrestling will bring back the old WCW fanbase is stretching the truth...which is to say that the WCW fanbase watched WCW for more than just good ringwork. Hell after '99 I would say that WWF had WCW beat in workrate and great matches top to bottom hands down, but the same people would still prefer to watch WCW. I don't know what will bring back the old WCW fans, or even if it's at all possible to do this since these fans despise McMahon and 'NY rasslin' so much. However I do think that the only real link there is left to these fans is Flair, and that if there is any chance to bring them back it is through him (unless they bite the bullet and pay the truckloads of money to bring back Sting and/or Goldberg). quote: I'm all for making Booker T a face since I think he works better as a face, but I don't think WCW fans necessarily identified THAT well with him. He was certainly no ratings draw in WCW (although I can't blame him in any way for how the WCW belt was mismanaged when he got it) and oftentimes I would remember fans booing him even when he was the face. Realistically I don't think WCW fans viewed him as a real champion because Goldberg (the percieved champion) never really put him over (which is not necessarily the same as doing a job to someone). "Cheering for Hogan is letting the terrorists win." | ||||
| Living Legend WankTruster What's this? IrishAlkey's chewtoy? Thus then: Living Legend=Faggot | posted on 05-02-2002 @ 4:41 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Apr. 02 | The reason for the split is to get more money with more house shows .. and the original idea was to make two different pay-per-views -- but why would people pay so much to see the same matches they see on SMACKDOWN! or RAW - Like The Rock Vs. Chris Jericho who fight whenever they need a match added - It's pathetic and they should and will bring the rosters back together becore SummerSlam. | ||||
Nay. We are but men. ROCK. The man with the plan. | posted on 05-02-2002 @ 6:23 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote: There isn't one. It's common knowledge that the WWF spends four hours a week hyping ONE main event match for whatever the upcoming PPV is. My friend says "just ignore the announcers" - though that would help, the announcers ARE a part of the show. And during every match on Raw and Smackdown, no matter what the match in front of their face was, they would talk about the big main event feud. The split? Well, ideally, each half would have its own set of champs. Ideally, the shows would have nothing to do with each other. THAT IS HOW THE SPLIT WOULD BE SUCCESSFUL. But far be it from the WWF to follow common sense. Nope, why bother with that? They might actually put out a quality product! Obviously that is unacceptable. Instead, they make a rule that the champ is on both shows. Why? Who fucking knows. Result? Same old shit. The announcers still talk about nothing but the ONE big match that's coming. The show is still just as shitty as it has been.  | ||||
| burning in a lake of fire | posted on 05-02-2002 @ 8:02 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Mar. 02 | youre right there should be two seperate feds with seperate titles, and on top of that they should alternate theppvs so the raw brand gets their ppv one one month then smackdown gets theirs the next. kotr,rumble,and wrestlemania would be the exceptions to the rule of course, but when you try and combine two seperate rosters on one ppv every month wrestlers will eventually bump head, as in the current hhh undertaker inter promotional feud(so to speak) when it comes to weight loss, subway sandwiches go hand in hand with AIDES | ||||
| Living Legend WankTruster What's this? IrishAlkey's chewtoy? Thus then: Living Legend=Faggot | posted on 05-02-2002 @ 11:07 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Apr. 02 | Why would they alternate months? To see two month fueds with no hype to the ppv? - They have trouble making it through one month without making us bored theres no way there gonna make me sit through two. | ||||
| TeenWeek what's a status? | posted on 05-09-2002 @ 10:27 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | I thought I would bring up this thread considering how bad raw was and how bad wwf has sunk since the split. Gone from Raw: Scott Hall and Mr. Perfect Injured: Kane, Kevin Nash, Lita Gone from Smackdown: The Rock Injured: Chris Benoit Both owners are now heel. Both are feuding with main face Vince with HHH and Austin with Ric Flair. Like I have said before this split sucks. It is pointless. You know what Release some of the guys than like Raven, Justin Credible, Shawn Stasiak, Tommy Dreamer. Guys who dont get any tv time. You have Benoit and Rhyno coming back and you are most likely signing goldberg and steiner. The split is pointless. The shows are pointless except smackdown has better storylines and hotter females in stacy and torrie wilson. Tag titles are worth nothing anymore considering all chuck and billy face is maven and al snow. Like I have said before, since Kurt is kind of a mid carder right now how great would it be if he could switch it up and feud with rvd for a little bit or eddie guerrero. The wwf sorry e sucks. This split sucks. I fucking hate this because I would make sure that every monday night I was watching raw. I dont have that feeling anymore  | ||||
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